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McDonagh vs Subban

View Poll Results: Who would you rather have in your top four?
P.K. Subban 229 42.25%
Ryan McDonagh 313 57.75%
Voters: 542. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
03-23-2012, 08:14 AM
  #226
NYRantLftyC19
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Originally Posted by poetryinmotion View Post

Okay now you're overrating him. Girardi does all the heavy lifting on his pairing and I'd argue that even Del Zotto is a more important defenseman for the Rangers seeing as how he started to play well defensively and carries the load offensively for your defense. And that's only on the defensive side, on offense Gaborik, Richards and Callahan are all more heavily relied on than McDonagh.
This quote has basically shown everyone in the thread that you have no clue about the Rangers' defensive corps.

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03-23-2012, 10:42 AM
  #227
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Originally Posted by NYRantLftyC19 View Post
This quote has basically shown everyone in the thread that you have no clue about the Rangers' defensive corps.
Rangers have basically shown everyone in this thread how overrated McDonagh is. Take off your blinders, you're just proving my point for me. Del Zotto is quietly having a very good season on both ends of the ice and it's not a stretch to value him above McDonagh this year. Girardi goes without say.

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03-23-2012, 10:46 AM
  #228
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Originally Posted by poetryinmotion View Post
Okay now you're overrating him. Girardi does all the heavy lifting on his pairing and I'd argue that even Del Zotto is a more important defenseman for the Rangers seeing as how he started to play well defensively and carries the load offensively for your defense. And that's only on the defensive side, on offense Gaborik, Richards and Callahan are all more heavily relied on than McDonagh.
No way! Gaborik, Richards and Callahan are relied on more offensively than McD. What craziness!!!

McD is a stud d-man who is 22. This is his first full season and he is co-anchoring the first pair on the best team in the EC thus far.

Anyone saying Girardi carries the load, doesn't watch. McD has been as good as Girardi this year and the best part is, it won't be a career year for him.

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03-23-2012, 10:51 AM
  #229
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Originally Posted by The Hockey Agent View Post
No way! Gaborik, Richards and Callahan are relied on more offensively than McD. What craziness!!!

McD is a stud d-man who is 22. This is his first full season and he is co-anchoring the first pair on the best team in the EC thus far.

Anyone saying Girardi carries the load, doesn't watch. McD has been as good as Girardi this year and the best part is, it won't be a career year for him.
Tortorella must disagree because Girardi is your #1 and eats the most minutes on your team. As for the attackers, I didn't say they are relied on more offensively, massive reading comprehension fail on your part. Overall, they are more important to the success of your team than McDonagh is on the forwards side. Go back and read what I was replying to instead of just responding to a comment without context.


Last edited by poetryinmotion: 03-23-2012 at 10:56 AM.
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Old
03-23-2012, 10:55 AM
  #230
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Originally Posted by poetryinmotion View Post
Tortorella must disagree because Girardi is your #1 and eats the most minutes on your team.
Maybe because he is more of a veteran? hmmmm. McD is a slice above a rookie. It's ridiculous how good he's been with the responsibility heaped on him.

And he plays about one minute less than Girardi per game, with Girardi getting Power play time. If you go by this argument as well.


The Rangers have a stronger d-core than Montreal, that much is obvious. Yet, McD is 13th in the league in toi/game, while Subban is 19th. Interesting

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03-23-2012, 11:00 AM
  #231
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Originally Posted by The Hockey Agent View Post
Maybe because he is more of a veteran? hmmmm. McD is a slice above a rookie. It's ridiculous how good he's been with the responsibility heaped on him.

And he plays about one minute less than Girardi per game, with Girardi getting Power play time. If you go by this argument as well.


The Rangers have a stronger d-core than Montreal, that much is obvious. Yet, McD is 13th in the league in toi/game, while Subban is 19th. Interesting
Are you seriously re-hashing this again? A whole 2% of TOI differece?

I shouldn't be surprized that people are relying in this weaksauce argument because you honestly got nothing.

Psst, look at Subban's TOI recently and get back to me.

edit: More fail, It's actually Mcd: #12 Subban: #14. Yeah good thing I checked.

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03-23-2012, 11:16 AM
  #232
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Originally Posted by poetryinmotion View Post
Are you seriously re-hashing this again? A whole 2% of TOI differece?

I shouldn't be surprized that people are relying in this weaksauce argument because you honestly got nothing.

Psst, look at Subban's TOI recently and get back to me.

edit: More fail, It's actually Mcd: #12 Subban: #14. Yeah good thing I checked.
You're the one who brought up the toi argument. I simply replied....When the distance between two players in TOI is that minimal, then it shouldn't matter. You claim it does in regards to Girardi and McD but not between McD and Subban.


And so you can see:


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03-23-2012, 11:24 AM
  #233
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Originally Posted by The Hockey Agent View Post
You're the one who brought up the toi argument. I simply replied....When the distance between two players in TOI is that minimal, then it shouldn't matter. You claim it does in regards to Girardi and McD but not between McD and Subban.


And so you can see:

I was refering to TTOI not TOI/G because they played the same number of games, and I did NOT bring this argument to the discussion, some desperate Rangers fan did (read post #181). In the Bolded is what's important.

And of course it matters when it comes to McD and Girardi, they play on the same team whereas Subban does not, simple fact really. It's such a stupid argument to make, they are separated by mere seconds. But that doesn't tell the whole story, recently Subban's been averaging more like 28 minutes.


Last edited by poetryinmotion: 03-23-2012 at 11:30 AM.
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Old
03-23-2012, 11:35 AM
  #234
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Originally Posted by poetryinmotion View Post
I was refering to TTOI not TOI/G because they played the same number of games, and I did NOT bring this argument to the discussion, some desperate Rangers fan did (read post #181). In the Bolded is what's important.

And of course it matters when it comes to McD and Girardi, they play on the same team whereas Subban does not, simple fact really. It's such a stupid argument to make, they are separated by mere seconds. But that doesn't tell the whole story, recently Subban's been averaging more like 28 minutes.
Toi/game>>>>total toi.

And it does matter when referring to strictly defense. Mcd is about a minute less per game than girardi and gets no pp time, while Girardi does.

That's pretty significant when discussing. You would know this if you watched a team besides Montreal.

I'm not even saying McD > Subban, as i think there pretty equal and any team would be happy to have either of them (although they both bring a different style).

I was simply responding to your "facts" which were completely false. People have different reasons for preferring each player but i can see an argument for either.

A team that needs more offense and an intimidating agitator might want subban more. A team that wants a defense oriented, non-lockeroom leader, who can play heavy minutes with little to no mistakes game in game out will want mcd.

It's too early to tell who will be/who is better and anyone arguing one or the other is simply a homer. There's no clear cut winner, only a preference to your team. And right now, McD clearly fits the Rangers style so yes, I would prefer him over Subban.

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Old
03-23-2012, 11:45 AM
  #235
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Originally Posted by The Hockey Agent View Post
Toi/game>>>>total toi.

And it does matter when referring to strictly defense. Mcd is about a minute less per game than girardi and gets no pp time, while Girardi does.

That's pretty significant when discussing. You would know this if you watched a team besides Montreal.

I'm not even saying McD > Subban, as i think there pretty equal and any team would be happy to have either of them (although they both bring a different style).

I was simply responding to your "facts" which were completely false. People have different reasons for preferring each player but i can see an argument for either.

A team that needs more offense and an intimidating agitator might want subban more. A team that wants a defense oriented, non-lockeroom leader, who can play heavy minutes with little to no mistakes game in game out will want mcd.

It's too early to tell who will be/who is better and anyone arguing one or the other is simply a homer. There's no clear cut winner, only a preference to your team. And right now, McD clearly fits the Rangers style so yes, I would prefer him over Subban.
Please enlighten me as to which facts I got wrong.

Also you're selling Subban way short.

His defense is easily on par with him, if you watch him play. Subban is the anchor of the #1 PK in the league.

His offense blows McD out of the water and on top of that he has other intangibles such as being an pesky agitator and hits you like a truck if you come down his side of the ice.

And there it is again with the minutes, jesus man, you even said it yourself that it shouldn't matter yet AGAIN you pull it out as if it's supposed to be meaningful in some way. Unbeleavable. If I had to pick who is the minute eater between Subban and McD I chose Subban who can play 30 minutes a game without missing a beat.

They both play a different style, yes. McD will never be more than a safe stay-at-home D whereas Subban is much more than that.

There is a clear winner, you just can't see it.

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03-23-2012, 11:48 AM
  #236
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Originally Posted by poetryinmotion View Post
Please enlighten me as to which facts I got wrong.

Also you're selling Subban way short.

His defense is easily on par with him, if you watch him play. Subban is the anchor of the #1 PK in the league.

His offense blows McD out of the water and on top of that he has other intangibles such as being an pesky agitator and hits you like a truck if you come down his side of the ice.

And there it is again with the minutes, jesus man, you even said it yourself that it shouldn't matter yet AGAIN you pull it out as if it's supposed to be meaningful in some way. Unbeleavable. If I had to pick who is the minute eater between Subban and McD I chose Subban who can play 30 minutes a game without missing a beat.

They both play a different style, yes. McD will never be more than a safe stay-at-home D whereas Subban is much more than that.

There is a clear winner, you just can't see it.
Funny you should talk about me selling one of these players short.


Last edited by TMI: 03-23-2012 at 12:05 PM. Reason: playing mod
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03-23-2012, 12:08 PM
  #237
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McDonagh, because he also shed the Rangers of the albatross known as Gomez.



Seriously, PK is the better player/upside, but the Scott Gomez deal has to be the worst trade since post lockout.

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03-23-2012, 03:23 PM
  #238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poetryinmotion View Post
Please enlighten me as to which facts I got wrong.

Also you're selling Subban way short.

His defense is easily on par with him, if you watch him play. Subban is the anchor of the #1 PK in the league.

His offense blows McD out of the water and on top of that he has other intangibles such as being an pesky agitator and hits you like a truck if you come down his side of the ice.

And there it is again with the minutes, jesus man, you even said it yourself that it shouldn't matter yet AGAIN you pull it out as if it's supposed to be meaningful in some way. Unbeleavable. If I had to pick who is the minute eater between Subban and McD I chose Subban who can play 30 minutes a game without missing a beat.

They both play a different style, yes. McD will never be more than a safe stay-at-home D whereas Subban is much more than that.

There is a clear winner, you just can't see it.
Subban is the anchor of the PK? I'm pretty sure every Habs fan has said that Gorges is the only reason you're not behind Columbus.
McDonagh's nickname is McTruck, so don't pretend like he hasn't wrecked Kovalchuck's game 6 times this year. And what's great about an agitator if he gets stupid penalties.
You're the one that said Girardi plays more than McDonagh, even though you had previously said that dig fences of 49 seconds a game make no difference.
And I'm assuming you haven't seen McDonagh shoot, or skate, or pass...

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03-23-2012, 04:21 PM
  #239
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P.K. Subban had a better rookie season then McDonaugh and for most accounts he's apparently going through a sophmore slump.

Let's give this a bit more time or at least wait to see what McDonagh does in the playoffs since we know how beast P.K. was in his first playoffs and last year.

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03-23-2012, 04:59 PM
  #240
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Originally Posted by Bipolar View Post
Subban is the anchor of the PK? I'm pretty sure every Habs fan has said that Gorges is the only reason you're not behind Columbus.
McDonagh's nickname is McTruck, so don't pretend like he hasn't wrecked Kovalchuck's game 6 times this year. And what's great about an agitator if he gets stupid penalties.
You're the one that said Girardi plays more than McDonagh, even though you had previously said that dig fences of 49 seconds a game make no difference.
And I'm assuming you haven't seen McDonagh shoot, or skate, or pass...
Gill and Gorges was our first pairing before he got traded and when Subban took over it hasn't missed a step. Even last year, Subban was our most efficient penalty killer, ask any habs fan and we had a much, much better defense. Subban had a big part in shutting down Crosby and Ovechkin during the playoffs, he plays the toughest minutes on the team so I don't get what McDonagh has to do with "wrecking" (lol?) Kovalchuk 6 times this year, what's your point. And once again, you can't compare minutes of players from different teams. As it currently stands, Subban would probably play the most minutes on your team just like he has done on the Habs all year. And uh, are you kidding me? I've seen plenty of McD, he was Habs property so don't even go there. I don't watch every single Rangers game but I like to keep track on ex-habs.

And Subban is our no.1, not Gorges, he's the reason we aren't behind Edmonton. Here let me take a page out of your fellow fans' book: "You just showed with that statement that you have no idea what you're talking about." Am I doing it right?


Last edited by poetryinmotion: 03-23-2012 at 05:15 PM.
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03-25-2012, 02:48 AM
  #241
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Originally Posted by Habs4life74 View Post
Havent missed a game all year and subban has not regressed this year. He has been fantastic this season, but as someone said he's had a few bumps along the road but what young defenseman doesn't? Especially when they have to carry a very young/bad defense on his back along with gorges.
You need to add some context--some 'environment'--to your words. Being a "fantastic" player on the 2nd-worst team in the league...well, it doesn't really mean anything because if what I perceive the general sentiment to be that Subban "has carried" the Habs' defense is indeed accurate--what does that say about him, if he carries his team into the draft lottery?

Some will say "Oh, this guy is better because he plays on a better team", as if the team is something that exists in and of itself; people forget that the players make the team, which is why we see the better players on better teams, so to speak. It is not the team that makes a player, it's players that make a team.

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03-25-2012, 02:55 AM
  #242
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Wait, haha is this serious. McDonagh AINEC. Best defenseman on one of the best defensive teams in the NHL, in only his sophomore year. Can't ask for anything more.

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03-25-2012, 08:18 AM
  #243
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Wait, haha is this serious. McDonagh AINEC. Best defenseman on one of the best defensive teams in the NHL, in only his sophomore year. Can't ask for anything more.
Obvious trolling here

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03-25-2012, 09:14 AM
  #244
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This poll was started when pk was slumping pretty bad too.

Start it now, and PK wins this. Imagine them making a pair though

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03-25-2012, 12:02 PM
  #245
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I think a good exercise for this poll is to ask yourself if you prefer Suter or Weber. I'm not saying McD or Subban are nearly as good as the NSH elite pair or ever will be, but I think the playing style discrepancy is mirroring fairly well here.

I personally choose Weber at least 9 times on 10 over Suter, but I can understand others preferring Suter.

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03-25-2012, 12:15 PM
  #246
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Wow, people actually think Subban is a better player than McDonagh?? Explain your logic to me, because I honestly do not understand/

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03-25-2012, 12:25 PM
  #247
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McD for me. Subban has shown he can be a bad teammate, putting his fingers in players mouths, taking dumb penalties, etc. He is a good young player though. I would say both of them are 2nd pairing dmen and in that role, I prefer what McDonagh brings. What a horrible trade by Gauthier

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03-25-2012, 12:41 PM
  #248
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For those saying Subban is miles ahead of McDonagh offensively:

Ryan McDonagh: 25 Even Strength Points
PK Subban: 26 Even Strength Points

Now keep in mind McDonagh doesn't get powerplay time.

McDonagh is one of the best skaters in the league, anchoring the defense on the best team in the league, is a great locker-room character by all accounts, and doesn't take stupid penalties.

McDonagh.

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03-25-2012, 12:43 PM
  #249
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt4776 View Post
For those saying Subban is miles ahead of McDonagh offensively:

Ryan McDonagh: 25 Even Strength Points
PK Subban: 26 Even Strength Points

Now keep in mind McDonagh doesn't get powerplay time.

McDonagh is one of the best skaters in the league, anchoring the defense on the best team in the league, is a great locker-room character by all accounts, and doesn't take stupid penalties.

McDonagh.
Why use facts around here? Apparently ES points do not count in the minds of Canadiens fans.

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03-25-2012, 12:47 PM
  #250
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This was HOF defenseman Brian Leetch's thoughts on the Rangers defense and McDonagh:

Quote:
the guy Leetch is most impressed with is Ryan McDonagh, the second-year blue-liner that the Rangers acquired from Montreal in the deal that sent Scott Gomez north of the border.
Quote:
"Del Zotto and (Marc) Staal and (Dan) Girardi, they're all very good skaters, but you can tell when they're skating full speed. They're working to get there and working to get into position, but with McDonagh's pivots and those just a couple of strides -- just a tremendous, tremendous skater."
Quote:
"The way he can move side to side, and the power in those strides, stands out to me," he said later in the interview. "It looks different than I've seen."
http://www.nhl.com/ice/blogpost.htm?id=6310

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