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McDonagh vs Subban

View Poll Results: Who would you rather have in your top four?
P.K. Subban 229 42.25%
Ryan McDonagh 313 57.75%
Voters: 542. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
05-03-2012, 07:40 PM
  #626
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Take McDonagh if you want a stay-at-home guy, take Subban if you want offense. On the Leafs, I'd take McDonagh because the d-core sucks defensively, and he would be a great addition to it.

Imagine if Bob Gainey never smoked crack and traded for Gomer... McDonagh-Subban would be one of the best future d-pairs in the league.

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05-03-2012, 07:43 PM
  #627
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
This year he has. Not in the 2009-10 playoffs.
Oh I see. So now, the question is who of Subban in 2009-10 playoffs or McDonagh this year are the best?

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05-03-2012, 07:55 PM
  #628
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Originally Posted by Cleatus View Post
Imagine if Bob Gainey never smoked crack and traded for Gomer... McDonagh-Subban would be one of the best future d-pairs in the league.
that would be a really scary defense to play against

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05-03-2012, 07:57 PM
  #629
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
This year he has. Not in the 2009-10 playoffs.
2009-2010: 8 pts, 14 games. +2 (team -3) TOI/G 20:44
2010-2011: 4 pts, 7 games. -2 (team -5) TOI/G 28:33

So your argument is conveniently based on his first steps in the NHL where he was still great at either offense or defense (and clutch in game 7). Even if I just took those playoffs as sample size, Subban still helped his team more than McD who has 1 pt and is a -3 with a teamwide +5 so he's basically -8 compared to the team avg.

And in the 10-11 playoffs Subban was even more impressive. If you put them together Subban >>> McDonagh in the po's and it's not close.

Defensively they are close, offensively Subban takes it in a walk.

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05-03-2012, 08:05 PM
  #630
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Originally Posted by poetryinmotion View Post
2009-2010: 8 pts, 14 games. +2 (team -3) TOI/G 20:44
2010-2011: 4 pts, 7 games. -2 (team -5) TOI/G 28:33

So your argument is conveniently based on his first steps in the NHL where he was still great at either offense or defense (and clutch in game 7). Even if I just took those playoffs as sample size, Subban still helped his team more than McD who has 1 pt and is a -3 with a teamwide +5 so he's basically -8 compared to the team avg.

And in the 10-11 playoffs Subban was even more impressive. If you put them together Subban >>> McDonagh in the po's and it's not close.

Defensively they are close, offensively Subban takes it in a walk.
no on this ranger team this year in these playoffs i take McD 10 times out of 10. subban would not be able to handle the offenses that McD has had to shut down. im not saying hes bad but i wouldnt feel confident with him 1 on 1 against spezza, ovi, backstrom, semin, karlsson, alfie, or michalek. im sorry but McD is the better shut down defenseman and it is ridiculous to claim that subban is more valuable based off points and +/-

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05-03-2012, 08:22 PM
  #631
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Originally Posted by poetryinmotion View Post
2009-2010: 8 pts, 14 games. +2 (team -3) TOI/G 20:44
2010-2011: 4 pts, 7 games. -2 (team -5) TOI/G 28:33

So your argument is conveniently based on his first steps in the NHL where he was still great at either offense or defense (and clutch in game 7). Even if I just took those playoffs as sample size, Subban still helped his team more than McD who has 1 pt and is a -3 with a teamwide +5 so he's basically -8 compared to the team avg.

And in the 10-11 playoffs Subban was even more impressive. If you put them together Subban >>> McDonagh in the po's and it's not close.

Defensively they are close, offensively Subban takes it in a walk.
Not really. Points and +/- is garbage when evaluating defensemen.

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05-03-2012, 08:46 PM
  #632
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Originally Posted by poetryinmotion View Post
2009-2010: 8 pts, 14 games. +2 (team -3) TOI/G 20:44
2010-2011: 4 pts, 7 games. -2 (team -5) TOI/G 28:33

So your argument is conveniently based on his first steps in the NHL where he was still great at either offense or defense (and clutch in game 7). Even if I just took those playoffs as sample size, Subban still helped his team more than McD who has 1 pt and is a -3 with a teamwide +5 so he's basically -8 compared to the team avg.

And in the 10-11 playoffs Subban was even more impressive. If you put them together Subban >>> McDonagh in the po's and it's not close.

Defensively they are close, offensively Subban takes it in a walk.
Subban had 36 total points in 81 games this year, and McDonagh had 32 in 82 games, his first full season. Takes it in a walk? Considering McDonagh is pretty much better defensively, I'd say the points are pretty much a wash, thus McDonagh is the better overall package. And don't start with surrounding players please, because doesn't Subban QB the PP? Pretty sure McDonagh doesn't get those opps and is in fact a PKer.

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05-03-2012, 08:51 PM
  #633
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 651 View Post
Subban had 36 total points in 81 games this year, and McDonagh had 32 in 82 games, his first full season. Takes it in a walk? Considering McDonagh is pretty much better defensively, I'd say the points are pretty much a wash, thus McDonagh is the better overall package. And don't start with surrounding players please,
because doesn't Subban QB the PP? Pretty sure McDonagh doesn't get those opps and is in fact a PKer.
Subban played a giant role on a
Top 2 PK in the NHL. Try again.

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05-03-2012, 09:00 PM
  #634
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Originally Posted by Habs4life74 View Post
Subban played a giant role on a
Top 2 PK in the NHL. Try again.
I don't have to try again. He had four more points than McDonagh this year. Big fricken whoopty doo.

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05-03-2012, 09:11 PM
  #635
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I don't have to try again. He had four more points than McDonagh this year. Big fricken whoopty doo.
Just stating the facts.

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05-03-2012, 09:14 PM
  #636
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Just stating the facts.
I gotcha.

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05-03-2012, 09:16 PM
  #637
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Not really. Points and +/- is garbage when evaluating defensemen.
Dumbest think i've heard in a long time.I do agree on the +/- but than you throw it all away on the point evaluation.Points mean a lot.
But in your defense i can understand why you would not want to use the points issue especially come playoff time.

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05-03-2012, 09:33 PM
  #638
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Dumbest think i've heard in a long time.I do agree on the +/- but than you throw it all away on the point evaluation.Points mean a lot.
But in your defense i can understand why you would not want to use the points issue especially come playoff time.
36p versus 32p. Yep, Subban is just clearly soooooo superior as an offensive threat. LOL

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05-03-2012, 09:34 PM
  #639
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Originally Posted by 651 View Post
Subban had 36 total points in 81 games this year, and McDonagh had 32 in 82 games, his first full season. Takes it in a walk? Considering McDonagh is pretty much better defensively, I'd say the points are pretty much a wash, thus McDonagh is the better overall package. And don't start with surrounding players please, because doesn't Subban QB the PP? Pretty sure McDonagh doesn't get those opps and is in fact a PKer.
McDonagh doesn't play on your PP because he is a showdown defenseman. As for Subban he wasn't on the first PP wave since something like the midway point of the season, after that they let him run it with Kaberle then Markov.

Funny that you use selective stats to show that Mcdo's offense is close. Here's the real picture:

REGULAR SEASON
Subban: 160 GP 76 PTS .47 PPG equivalent to a 39 pts season over 82 games.
McDonagh: 122 GP 41 PTS .33 PPG equivalent to a 28 pts season over 82 games.

PLAYOFFS
Subban: 21 GP 12 PTS .57 PPG equivalent to a 47 pts season over 82 games.
McDonagh: 15 GP 01 PTS .06 PPG equivalent to a 05 pts season over 82 games.

We have comparable sample sizes, with Subban having played more games, and thus having to sustain his higher offensive output for longer makes it more impressive in his case. In the playoffs where it's do or die, he is even more productive than during the regular season while McDonagh is relegated to shutdown duty, and you're trying to sell to me that McDonagh is the more complete player?


Last edited by poetryinmotion: 05-03-2012 at 09:43 PM.
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05-03-2012, 09:37 PM
  #640
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36p versus 32p. Yep, Subban is just clearly soooooo superior as an offensive threat. LOL
Maybe not statistically at the moment but when you say offensive threat, subban is a bigger offensive threat than Mcdonagh AINEC.

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05-03-2012, 09:59 PM
  #641
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Originally Posted by Habs4life74 View Post
Subban played a giant role on a
Top 2 PK in the NHL. Try again.
McD played a giant role on a top 3 defense in the NHL (1st in the east) and on a top 5 PK in the NHL (4th in the east) TRY AGAIN!!!

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05-03-2012, 11:11 PM
  #642
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Dumbest think i've heard in a long time.I do agree on the +/- but than you throw it all away on the point evaluation.Points mean a lot.
But in your defense i can understand why you would not want to use the points issue especially come playoff time.
Do you think MDZ is more offensively gifted than PK? After all, the stats do say that he got more points this season.

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05-03-2012, 11:16 PM
  #643
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
Do you think MDZ is more offensively gifted than PK? After all, the stats do say that he got more points this season.
MDZ is probably as offensively gifted as Subban, and vice versa, it's close. The big difference with them is defensive play.

McDonagh, on the other hand, is nowhere near.

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05-03-2012, 11:24 PM
  #644
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MDZ is probably as offensively gifted as Subban, and vice versa, it's close. The big difference with them is defensive play.

McDonagh, on the other hand, is nowhere near.
The difference between MDZ and Subban is 5 points.

The difference between Subban and McDonagh is 4 points.

But for sure, he's nowhere near.

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05-03-2012, 11:30 PM
  #645
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The difference between MDZ and Subban is 5 points.

The difference between Subban and McDonagh is 4 points.

But for sure, he's nowhere near.
Read my post above. McD doesn't hold a candle to Subban's offense, while MDZ is actually coming close with a .43 ppg, but n'either are on his level really, and both had the benefit of playing on a #1 team this year.

It tells you something when MDZ and Subban are close in points, yet one is playing on a bottom feeder.

Every rangers fan in this thread that is arguing the offense angle in favor of McDonagh (and all you can say is that it's close) is cherry picking this season only, it's not how that works. You can make statistics lie by taking only sample sizes that contribute to your argument. But everyone that has taken a simple statistics 101 class knows that when you have the value of N (full sample size) you take that and only that to estimate results.

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05-03-2012, 11:36 PM
  #646
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Originally Posted by poetryinmotion View Post
Read my post above. McD doesn't hold a candle to Subban's offense, while MDZ is actually coming close with a .43 ppg, but n'either are on his level really, and both had the benefit of playing on a #1 team this year.

It tells you something when MDZ and Subban are close in points, yet one is playing on a bottom feeder.

Every rangers fan in this thread that is arguing the offense angle in favor of McDonagh (and all you can say is that it's close) is cherry picking this season only, it's not how that works. You can make statistics lie by taking only sample sizes that contribute to your argument. But everyone that has taken a simple statistics 101 class knows that when you have the value of N (full sample size) you take that and only that to estimate results.
Well it's hard to follow McD's offensive track record when he was given a shutdown role from the start of his NHL career.

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05-03-2012, 11:44 PM
  #647
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Subban gets under players skin. You would not want to be facing him in the playoffs. He is dominant when the games mean something boy.

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05-04-2012, 04:50 AM
  #648
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Originally Posted by 651 View Post
36p versus 32p. Yep, Subban is just clearly soooooo superior as an offensive threat. LOL

12 versus 1 point clearly is superior as an offensive threat and there's no needed about it.LOL

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05-04-2012, 04:59 AM
  #649
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Well it's hard to follow McD's offensive track record when he was given a shutdown role from the start of his NHL career.
Thats too bad because Subban plays a shutdown role and an offensive role. All in one package.

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05-04-2012, 05:56 AM
  #650
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Subban gets under players skin. You would not want to be facing him in the playoffs. He is dominant when the games mean something boy.
sorry i would rather have a defenseman who is defensively dominant in all games that he plays in

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