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Cole's Plus/Minus - Penguins vs. Canes (12.3.11)

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Old
12-04-2011, 02:35 PM
  #126
Ogrezilla
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Originally Posted by AugustBurnsRed View Post
There is 0% chance Boucher gets to that puck, absolutely no chance. Plus it was called a goal on the ice.
Does that matter? Serious question.

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Old
12-04-2011, 02:45 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
Does that matter? Serious question.
They claimed Boucher was not able to get to the puck because of Malkin, Malkin barely got in his way. Boucher was not getting to that puck whether Geno was close to him or not.

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12-04-2011, 04:11 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by froods View Post
I think people get too hung up on lines. I think it would be great if DB just came out and said that we don't have any lines on this team. Obviously to maintain minutes some people will play with others more often, but for the first time in years, everybody on this team can succeed playing next to any other player. I mean Duper scored with Geno as his center last night. Adams scored with Sid as his center. Interchangeable parts = lines do not matter.
I think it does matter. And the reason is these healthy top 3 lines over the last 5 game starts just haven't lived up to the billing. Other than Ottawa's 4 goals in the 1st.

Right now the Pens best player is Geno. And Neal and Dupuis are interchangeable to me. Both responsible defensively. Both are putting pucks in the net. I could care less if Neal is top 6 in scoring. Guess who the best passer on this team is? Sidney. Dupuis is reaping the benefits of Sid being back and Neal will too once he's on Sid's wing.

And i agree that Staal should be in the top 2 lines. He's too good not to be. Vitale and Park can then play 3rd and/or 4th role C depending on who's going that particular night until DJ gets fully back.

I'd even settle for a Sully-Sid experiment right now.

The fact that our 4th line has been our best the last 2 games tells me something is off with the top 3 lines. I know some people don't like change and DB seems to be one of them.

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12-04-2011, 04:26 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by AugustBurnsRed View Post
They claimed Boucher was not able to get to the puck because of Malkin, Malkin barely got in his way. Boucher was not getting to that puck whether Geno was close to him or not.
This.

Malkin didn't even impede him, he stepped over him with his right skate and his left was still in the air. Never touched him until the puck was in the net.

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12-04-2011, 04:33 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by SidTheKid8787 View Post
I think it does matter. And the reason is these healthy top 3 lines over the last 5 game starts just haven't lived up to the billing. Other than Ottawa's 4 goals in the 1st.

Right now the Pens best player is Geno. And Neal and Dupuis are interchangeable to me. Both responsible defensively. Both are putting pucks in the net. I could care less if Neal is top 6 in scoring. Guess who the best passer on this team is? Sidney. Dupuis is reaping the benefits of Sid being back and Neal will too once he's on Sid's wing.

And i agree that Staal should be in the top 2 lines. He's too good not to be. Vitale and Park can then play 3rd and/or 4th role C depending on who's going that particular night until DJ gets fully back.

I'd even settle for a Sully-Sid experiment right now.

The fact that our 4th line has been our best the last 2 games tells me something is off with the top 3 lines. I know some people don't like change and DB seems to be one of them.
They mix up the lines enough that I think dressing a 7th D-man is the way to go with how short they are.

Sid, Geno, and Jordan can all be double shifted at points to fill in that 4th line spot being vacated by having the 7th D-man. Hell, even Dupuis and others can fill that void in and this will free up those extra minutes so many require or want.

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12-04-2011, 04:35 PM
  #131
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I wouldn't mind swapping Sullivan for Staal. Sullivan just passes up too many good chances. Far too many. We can't have that...it may not have costed up anything big yet...but come playoff time when you need to cash in on every chance you get if you want the Cup...its gonna bite us in the butt.

I could go with

Neal - Crosby - TK/Dupuis
Kunitz - Malkin - Staal
Cooke/TK/Dupuis - Park - Sullivan
Asham - Vitale - Cooke/TK/Dupuis

Something like that.

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12-04-2011, 04:36 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Uncle Martin View Post
They mix up the lines enough that I think dressing a 7th D-man is the way to go with how short they are.

Sid, Geno, and Jordan can all be double shifted at points to fill in that 4th line spot being vacated by having the 7th D-man. Hell, even Dupuis and others can fill that void in and this will free up those extra minutes so many require or want.
Also not a bad idea. But with our luck 2 forwards will go down in that game.

I shall wait and see. I assume DB will go with the same top 3 line combos. So it will be easier to assess them after another 3 to 5 games.

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12-04-2011, 05:21 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by AugustBurnsRed View Post
They claimed Boucher was not able to get to the puck because of Malkin, Malkin barely got in his way. Boucher was not getting to that puck whether Geno was close to him or not.
I agree with that. But as far as the rule goes, I don't know if that matters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Martin View Post
This.

Malkin didn't even impede him, he stepped over him with his right skate and his left was still in the air. Never touched him until the puck was in the net.
That's a completely different situation then. Interference after the puck is in is a completely different situation than just saying he didn't have a chance to save it.

Part of Rule 69:
Goals should be disallowed only if: (1) an attacking player, either by his positioning or by contact, impairs the goalkeeper’s ability to move freely within his crease or defend his goal

There is no mention of ability to save the puck.

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12-04-2011, 05:34 PM
  #134
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My only beef with the call was that it seemed like Eric Staal pushed Geno into the goalie. IMO, the onus is no longer on Geno to get out of the goalie's way. It's not as if Geno intention ran over the goalie...at least it didn't seem that way to me.

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12-04-2011, 05:39 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by JTG View Post
My only beef with the call was that it seemed like Eric Staal pushed Geno into the goalie. IMO, the onus is no longer on Geno to get out of the goalie's way. It's not as if Geno intention ran over the goalie...at least it didn't seem that way to me.
Ya, I think that particular call was pretty bad either way.

Honestly, I am more curious about the general rule now. I had never thought about a scenario (and had never seen it happen) where a goalie got interfered with but wouldn't have had a chance to make a save anyway.

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12-04-2011, 06:39 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by AugustBurnsRed View Post
There is 0% chance Boucher gets to that puck, absolutely no chance. Plus it was called a goal on the ice.
Why would that matter at all? Players get called for goaltender interference all the time when the puck is nowhere near the goalie.

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12-04-2011, 06:44 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by FDBluth View Post
Why would that matter at all? Players get called for goaltender interference all the time when the puck is nowhere near the goalie.
Except Malkin didn't really interfere with him.

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12-04-2011, 06:46 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by AugustBurnsRed View Post
Except Malkin didn't really interfere with him.
that's a completely different argument then

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12-04-2011, 06:48 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by AugustBurnsRed View Post
Except Malkin didn't really interfere with him.
Not sure if you saw the overhead view. Obviously Malkin was pushed in and tried to avoid him, but there was definitely contact. His stick made contact and his skates sort of prevented Boucher from reaching over, even if it was seemingly impossible for him to make that save.

It's no big deal. We won the game. Good to see Neal working his tail off around the net.

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12-04-2011, 08:19 PM
  #140
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Are we on pace for a record number of disallowed goals? I don't remember them ever coming this frequently before.

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12-04-2011, 08:39 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by SEALBound View Post
I wouldn't mind swapping Sullivan for Staal. Sullivan just passes up too many good chances. Far too many. We can't have that...it may not have costed up anything big yet...but come playoff time when you need to cash in on every chance you get if you want the Cup...its gonna bite us in the butt.

I could go with

Neal - Crosby - TK/Dupuis
Kunitz - Malkin - Staal
Cooke/TK/Dupuis - Park - Sullivan
Asham - Vitale - Cooke/TK/Dupuis

Something like that.
I don't see any of that happening. The only changes I see happening are, Neal going to Crosby's line, Kennedy going to Malkin's line and Dupuis going to Staal's line.

Kunitz-Crosby-Neal
Sullivan-Malkin-Kennedy
Cooke-Staal-Dupuis
Asham-Park/Vitale-Adams

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Old
12-04-2011, 09:00 PM
  #142
Ogrezilla
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Originally Posted by AgentM View Post
Are we on pace for a record number of disallowed goals? I don't remember them ever coming this frequently before.
It really feels like it except none of them have really been bad calls. This last one was the only one I would say was questionable. I'd say the right call has been made on the rest of them

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12-04-2011, 09:26 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
It really feels like it except none of them have really been bad calls. This last one was the only one I would say was questionable. I'd say the right call has been made on the rest of them
I agree, I remember one other I didn't like earlier this year but I don't remember what game it was.

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12-05-2011, 04:00 AM
  #144
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Not sure why people are complaining about Neal's disallowed goal. The goalie clearly didn't have a chance to make a save because of all the contact. Eric Staal did knock Malkin into his own goalie and I don't like rewarding a player/team for that, but the goalie still didn't have a chance to make that save.

I also disagree that Boucher wouldn't have stopped that shot. I personally think he would have made that save easily if the contact didn't happen. Neal's effort to get that puck to the net was great, but the shot itself was nothing. It was slow and along the ice. It looked like Boucher still almost had a shot at stopping it even with the contact.

I'll throw the refs under the bus a lot. I tell everyone that will listen that NHL refs are the worst referees in any major North American sport, but I had little if any problem with their calls down the stretch.

Sullivan started the nonsense by punching a guy in a scrum after the whistle. We had an inarguable, blatant too many men on the ice penalty. Cooke definitely stuck his leg out and tripped Eric Staal. The only call I had some problem with was the hold on Dupuis. I thought Eric Staal interfered with Dupuis a bit to create room for his point man. Dupuis tried to fight through the contact, but used his free hand a bit and they both went down. I thought Staal and Dupuis both should have received penalties on that play. Dupuis for the hold and Staal for interference.

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