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Ryan Miller bowled over in first game back (Tootoo gets two)

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Old
12-05-2011, 02:01 PM
  #76
Reddawg
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At some point we just have to deal with the fact that even Brendan Shanahan doesn't want a piece of Milan Lucic and just move on from it.


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12-05-2011, 02:49 PM
  #77
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Anyone know what time the decision will be announced?


Last edited by joshjull: 12-05-2011 at 03:07 PM.
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Old
12-05-2011, 03:06 PM
  #78
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Please dont feed the trolls.

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Old
12-05-2011, 03:19 PM
  #79
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All i know is that i am rolling with my homies and i am going to get me some presents.

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12-05-2011, 05:21 PM
  #80
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still no word, huh

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12-05-2011, 05:27 PM
  #81
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FWIW, Kerry Fraser's take on the incident:

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I watched the Buffalo-Nashville game (video) live and saw Jordin Tootoo charge into Ryan Miller. Even before Miller used his catching glove to pound Tootoo several times I had imposed a five-minute major and game misconduct to Tootoo in my mind. I agree totally with the referee(s) decision in this initial assessment on the play.

What I disagree with is the fact that Ryan Miller was given a free pass for his retaliation in the punches that he threw to the helmet of Tootoo with his catching glove. At the very minimum Miller should have received a minor penalty for roughing (if you bought into Miller's justification for self-defense which isn't at issue.)

Based purely on Ryan Miller's response for being hit in his goal crease a double minor for roughing was warranted for the number of shots he delivered in retaliation (Had Miller used his blocker a 5 minute match penalty would have resulted under rule 51.3).

An old-fashioned rugby scrum ensued and Paul Gaustad was singled out for a double roughing minor plus 10-minute misconduct for persisting to get at Tootoo and some minor resisting of linesman, Mark Shewchyk who did a very good job containing Gaustad. I found the assessment excessive and when a minor penalty would have sufficed to Gaustad.

Looking for a Nashville differential in the final penalty assessment, I would have assessed a roughing minor to Shea Weber for grabbing Paul Gaustad around the neck and wrestling him off the pile of players on top of Tootoo. My final assessment would have not differed in the one-minute power play time differential that Buffalo received but in identifying players deserving of penalties.

For Nashville I give Jordin Tootoo five and a game misconduct for charging; Shea Weber gets two for roughing; Buffalo Ryan Miller a double minor for roughing and Paul Gaustad two for roughing. This sets up the Buffalo captain's choice play 4-on-3 for two minutes before receiving a three minute power play from Tootoo's major, or play 4-on-4 for four minutes prior to receiving a one minute power play differential.
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=382038

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12-05-2011, 05:37 PM
  #82
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i think the bottom line is if lucic wasnt suspended, this shouldnt result in a suspension. you cant use circumstantial variables dictate a punishment. if it wasnt miller tootoo ran over, would it be a suspension? no way.

what they need to do is straight up change the rule on goalie interference.

-if a guy bumps a goalie or prevents him from playing the puck/making a save (the holmstrom effect) - 2 minute for interference

- if a guy knocks a goalie down with force/speed in or out of the crease whether he "tried" to avoid it or not - 5 minute major for charging the goalie

- if the play results in any sort of goalie injury/equipment destruction which would cause the goalie to miss any game time - game misconduct, subject to additional discipline.

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12-05-2011, 05:38 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabretip View Post
FWIW, Kerry Fraser's take on the incident:



http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=382038
Interesting, fair, and pretty spot-on assessment about the penalties. Of course, it's easier to piece that all together watching a video than watching it transpire live. It was pretty chaotic.

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Old
12-05-2011, 06:53 PM
  #84
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From Twitter DarrenDreger
Decision and announcement on Tootoo suspension will be made tomorrow.

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12-05-2011, 06:58 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by two Tylers now View Post
From Twitter DarrenDreger
Decision and announcement on Tootoo suspension will be made tomorrow.
I wonder why the extra day?

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12-05-2011, 07:02 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhett4 View Post
I wonder why the extra day?
there were a slew of hearings today, maybe they ran late

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12-05-2011, 07:13 PM
  #87
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I bet they're caning Tootoo as we speak

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12-05-2011, 08:24 PM
  #88
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Hoping no suspension for Tootoo.

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12-05-2011, 09:51 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotAct View Post
I bet they're caning Tootoo as we speak
Shanahan is in Singapore? Oh crap.

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Old
12-05-2011, 10:27 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhett4 View Post
I wonder why the extra day?
They don't want any shinanigans or side show antics due to the realignment news.

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12-05-2011, 11:41 PM
  #91
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I can imagine the phone call between shanny and tootoo:

Shanny:"Hey buddy, sry for calling but you know, the media expect me to do anything about that play"

Tootoo:"No Problem, mate. I guess you already know what I'm going to tell you"?

Shanny:"Well, the way I see it is, that you were pushed into the goalie by the defender and you tried to avoid the contact by jumping out of the way. But the attempt failed."

Tootoo:"Well you're right, thats pretty much it. What are you going to do now?"

Shanny:"Seriously, I have no idea how to handle this one. I mean lucics hit on miller was worse and i did mot give him a suspension. Now Miller has returned and you crashed into him his very first game back. That was a very bad timing. The media expect me to ban you for a few games.

Tootoo: But it wasn't intentional. I didn't want to hurt him. I just couldn't stop skating in that situation.

Shanny:"I know, I may flip a coin on that case but prepare for a 2 game ban. They expect it and if I don't ban you, they will freak out especially the guys from bufallo.....

Tootoo:"well thats unfair but do what you have to do...."

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Old
12-06-2011, 01:31 AM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by two Tylers now View Post
From Twitter DarrenDreger
Decision and announcement on Tootoo suspension will be made tomorrow.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhett4 View Post
I wonder why the extra day?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DixonWard15 View Post
there were a slew of hearings today, maybe they ran late
According to E.J. Hradek's report on NHL Live today, the Board of Governors will be hearing updates on player safety from Shanahan tomorrow - something tells me that he'll get questions on goalie protection in general and that he'll try to use the Tootoo ruling as a example. If there wasn't going to be a suspension, I would think he'd have notified the media today after the phone hearing with Tootoo. The bigger question seems to be what length of suspension Shanahan doles out - even if he may consider the Tootoo incident less dangerous than the Lucic one, he may submit to the majority view most GMs / owners had after the Lucic ruling and make an example out of Tootoo to send a message now before another goalie-running incident pops up and suddenly he's faced with a growing pattern that he's twice already ignored.

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12-06-2011, 01:55 AM
  #93
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Complete accident IMO however considering Tootoo's past record he should get a game..

I bet all he gets is a fine though IMO.

With that said it was refreshing to see the team stick up for Miller, and I loved Erhoffs game the rest of the night hopefully he keeps up the good work..

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12-06-2011, 06:30 AM
  #94
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I think he might get a few games just because of the fact that he had no business crashing the crease like that. He didn't turn towards miller until after he lost the puck. It was planned. Hense he will get 2 at least.

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Old
12-06-2011, 09:16 AM
  #95
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I think tootoo will get games for the simple fact that Ryan Miller was the victim both times, which shouldn't be the determining factor, but when you drop the ball as bad as Shanahan did on the Lucic hit I can't imagine Miller be hit like this again and the league letting it go again.

IMO, both warrant a suspension, but this new sheriff in town, god knows what happens. As a habs fan, I wish Ryan Miller and the Sabres the best and hope no injury results, the league really needs to get it's house in order, tootoo will like be made an example of, even though Lucic's hit was arguably worse.

Goodluck Sabres and I hope Miller is 100% good to go.

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Old
12-06-2011, 09:30 AM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
I think tootoo will get games for the simple fact that Ryan Miller was the victim both times, which shouldn't be the determining factor, but when you drop the ball as bad as Shanahan did on the Lucic hit I can't imagine Miller be hit like this again and the league letting it go again.

IMO, both warrant a suspension, but this new sheriff in town, god knows what happens. As a habs fan, I wish Ryan Miller and the Sabres the best and hope no injury results, the league really needs to get it's house in order, tootoo will like be made an example of, even though Lucic's hit was arguably worse.

Goodluck Sabres and I hope Miller is 100% good to go.
It's kind of a catch-22 for Shanahan due to his screw-up with the Lucic incident. If he does suspend him, it's inconsistent with the Lucic decision; if he doesn't, it's "open season" on goalies. I don't feel bad for him though, because he brought it on himself by seriously screwing up the Lucic ruling.

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Old
12-06-2011, 09:36 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Montag DP View Post
It's kind of a catch-22 for Shanahan due to his screw-up with the Lucic incident. If he does suspend him, it's inconsistent with the Lucic decision; if he doesn't, it's "open season" on goalies. I don't feel bad for him though, because he brought it on himself by seriously screwing up the Lucic ruling.
Shanny has an out. The GMs told him they felt Lucic should have been suspended.

All he has to do is suspend Tootoo say "Hey look, I didn't feel Lucic should have been suspended based on my understanding of things at the time. The GMs spoke, and clarified for me that they wanted goalies to be better protected. This ruling shows that new direction."

Done. Arse is covered.

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Old
12-06-2011, 09:43 AM
  #98
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The funny thing is that I don't really think that was suspension-worthy.

We're all sensitized to it due to the Lucic incident, but in a vacuum? I don't really think it was that huge of a deal past the punishment that was dished out on the ice.

My interest in the suspension is to see whether Shanahan has to bite the bullet and set precedent for goalie running even though it wasn't a horrible incident (in which case I think Tootoo is essentially getting punished for Shanahan missing the Lucic suspension) or if he does nothing, opening him to more criticism that goalie-running is AOK.

I think Tootoo gets a fine. Maybe a game.

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12-06-2011, 09:47 AM
  #99
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If the GM's told Shanahan to completely change the level for what is suspension-worthy when it comes to collisions involving goalies, then the Tootoo on Miller and the two incidents where Canucks forwards hit both Kiprusoff and Karlsson for Calgary could set the new benchmark for suspensions when you hit a goalie.

It will be interesting to see if the NHL wants to remove the jam play where forwards try and go through the crease away to protect goalies more.

It will also be a very interesting explanation video to watch on all of the goalie getting hit plays that are under review.

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Old
12-06-2011, 09:50 AM
  #100
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And to be fair to Shanahan, the Lucic hit and this hit were obviously different. I think most would agree that a goalie in vs. out of the paint are two very different scenarios.

He's basically screwed no matter what he does. The best middle ground is probably a cute fine.

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