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New NHL Alignment Approved: TB & FLA come on up!

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Old
12-06-2011, 10:07 PM
  #176
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12-06-2011, 10:58 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by Squantosawuss View Post
As I alluded to, I canot stand division leaders being given a free pass in playoff seedings the way it is NOW, forget about under the new proposal where even more teams get a free pass.

No way should a team with less points get a higher seed than a team that has less points. It's just stupid.

MERIT should determine who lands where in the post season. I don't care if the top 5 seeds are all from the same division (under currecnt structre). If that's what the point totals dictate, then so be it.

I hate it in other sports, and now the NHL is making it even worse.
With the severe schedule imbalance, there's no real way you could seed across conferences. More than 40% of each team's games are going to be played inside their conference.

This format actually improves the situation with seeding - if you're not one of the best 4 teams in your conference, you don't have a real strong beef about missing the playoffs, IMO, and it will be impossible for a team with a lower point total to host a team with a higher point total in the format. (Which is possible in the first round and has happened under the current format)

OT, but I think the thing I hate most about this is that they're calling them conferences rather than divisions. I've had to go back and retype conference instead of divison a number of times since yesterday

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12-07-2011, 05:21 AM
  #178
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I really like the four conference system. I hope the names they end up selecting are decent. I'm a bit underwhelmed at both Florida teams being in our conference. Granted, there will be ample opportunity to build rivalries with them over the years, but I think I would have preferred closer teams, like perhaps the Rags or even the Canes.

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12-07-2011, 06:29 AM
  #179
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Originally Posted by jamers View Post
I really like the four conference system. I hope the names they end up selecting are decent. I'm a bit underwhelmed at both Florida teams being in our conference. Granted, there will be ample opportunity to build rivalries with them over the years, but I think I would have preferred closer teams, like perhaps the Rags or even the Canes.


*gasp* Take that back!

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12-07-2011, 07:20 AM
  #180
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*gasp* Take that back!
Maybe I'm in the minority, but I'd rather have teams I hate within the conference... makes things more interesting.

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12-07-2011, 08:08 AM
  #181
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Originally Posted by HiddenInLight View Post
*gasp* Take that back!
I bet our contingent of expats in NC hate the re-alignment because instead of 2 games against the Sabres down there, they only get 1. (although Florida based expats probably love this since they get extra games against the Sabres).

But otherwise, I couldn't care less about the Canes not being in our conference...although I wish we had a shot at playing them in the playoffs that didn't depend on both teams making it past the 2nd round.

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12-07-2011, 09:21 AM
  #182
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This actually is kind of great for the SE teams, in the big picture. If they can make the playoffs (which will likely be a bit harder Was/Car than it will be for TB/Fla), it can create some serious rivalries on a scale that would have never happened before. A playoff series or two between Florida and Toronto? Carolina becoming hated rivals of more major market NE teams? Even in the western most division - fostering some hate between LA or Phoenix and the NW teams. All great for the game. The central-ish division may not benefit as much in the sense, but largely fixed the time zone, TV, and travel issues they faced before. This is a win all around.
I think the Central gets back many of their classic rivalries -- Detroit, Chicago, Minny and St. Louis as throwbacks to the old Norris division. Throw in the Minny-Dallas rivalry, a very solid Preds, the Jets built to play a heavy game, and the positional rivalry for the Jackets.... I think they make out well.

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12-07-2011, 12:06 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by LoveDaSwords View Post
I bet our contingent of expats in NC hate the re-alignment because instead of 2 games against the Sabres down there, they only get 1. (although Florida based expats probably love this since they get extra games against the Sabres).

But otherwise, I couldn't care less about the Canes not being in our conference...although I wish we had a shot at playing them in the playoffs that didn't depend on both teams making it past the 2nd round.
Or maybe we need to instead take a trip to Florida?

Really think this is also good for RJ hanging on a little longer, should there be mutual agreement, (in the event the Sabres don't win the Cup this season). Couple more trips a year to FLA for him; let the "B" broadcast team keep doing the time zone swings.

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12-07-2011, 12:16 PM
  #184
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do you remember the last time we played playoff hockey within the division in the first two rounds? 1982 to 1993. Buffalo was bloody awful, won one series in 1983 then nothing until one series in 1993. We were forever losing to Montreal, Boston and Quebec. Two series wins in 12 years.

I would attribute this to Buffalo having a pretty mediocre team during this time, not the playoff scheduling.

Thats not the whole story, the format stunk. Buffalo finished third in the league in 1990. They would play Montreal, fourth in the league in the first round, and lost. No reward for a great regular season. In 1986 they finished with 80 points and missed the playoffs while Toronto with 57 and Winnipeg and Vancouver with 59 made it in. How fair of a system is that? This, guaranteed, will happen again, and the first time it does fans of those teams that are shafted will be up in arms. It all boils down to a strong conference versus a weak one. And, one of those teams from a weak one will be guaranteed a spot in the final four. Yeah it can happen now with East vs West, and won't likely be as bad with more teams in the league, but it will still happen with an unbalanced schedule and guaranteeing the fourth place teams in each confernece a playoff ticket.

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12-07-2011, 12:26 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by LoveDaSwords View Post
I bet our contingent of expats in NC hate the re-alignment because instead of 2 games against the Sabres down there, they only get 1.
Just realized that, instead of the Sabres playing 6 games per year here in the NYC-metro, they're only going to play 3.


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12-07-2011, 12:49 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by BCsabre View Post
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Originally Posted by BCsabre
do you remember the last time we played playoff hockey within the division in the first two rounds? 1982 to 1993. Buffalo was bloody awful, won one series in 1983 then nothing until one series in 1993. We were forever losing to Montreal, Boston and Quebec. Two series wins in 12 years.

Thats not the whole story, the format stunk. Buffalo finished third in the league in 1990. They would play Montreal, fourth in the league in the first round, and lost. No reward for a great regular season. In 1986 they finished with 80 points and missed the playoffs while Toronto with 57 and Winnipeg and Vancouver with 59 made it in. How fair of a system is that? This, guaranteed, will happen again, and the first time it does fans of those teams that are shafted will be up in arms. It all boils down to a strong conference versus a weak one. And, one of those teams from a weak one will be guaranteed a spot in the final four. Yeah it can happen now with East vs West, and won't likely be as bad with more teams in the league, but it will still happen with an unbalanced schedule and guaranteeing the fourth place teams in each confernece a playoff ticket.

In the 1990 you left out the most important factor in their point totals that year. All the Adam's divisions team had inflated records feasting on the Nordiques who ended the year with 31 points. Thats right 31pts. The next lowest point total was the Nucks with 64pts. Thats one of the worst point totals in league history. Hard to argue the Adams division teams were as good as their records beating up on that team. There was no injustice there.


As for the discrepencies in 1986. The NHL let 16 of 21 teams into the playoffs back then. I'm sorry but if you can't make the playoffs in that circumstance then there is little reason to shed tears for that team. The Sabres that year were 13th out of 21 teams in points (bottom half of the league). Lets not pretend this was a bigger injustice than it was. For every year you had to battle 4 tough teams in a 5 team division to make the playoffs. There was a year or two with one weak sister in the division that guaranteed the other 4 teams a playoff spot.

I think too many fans worry about a team or two making it and having a few less points than a team that didn't. But they forget over half the teams in the NHL get into the playoffs to begin with. It was even more ridiculous back in the years you're referencing when 76% of the team made the playoffs. It took years of expansion to get the percentage of teams that made it to a less ridiculous number (currently 53%)


A big difference between now and back then is one really crappy team doesn't guarantee the other teams in the division/conference a playoff spot. With more teams in the league, it makes it very hard for a crappy team to make the playoffs in this new setup.


If you want a truly even and fair system. The only way to achieve it is no divisions or conferences at all, just one big league where everyone plays each other the same amount of times. Anything other than that doesn't give you the fair and even results you desire.


Last edited by joshjull: 12-07-2011 at 01:08 PM.
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12-07-2011, 01:08 PM
  #187
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I think the Central gets back many of their classic rivalries -- Detroit, Chicago, Minny and St. Louis as throwbacks to the old Norris division. Throw in the Minny-Dallas rivalry, a very solid Preds, the Jets built to play a heavy game, and the positional rivalry for the Jackets.... I think they make out well.
Agreed. Love the new Central/Conference B/whatever it ends up being called. A lot of people are saying Conference D is going to be the strongest going forward, but I think Conference B will be right up there.

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12-07-2011, 01:38 PM
  #188
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I'd be down with Howe, Orr, Gretzky, Lemieux as conf. names, or, as conference trophy names, if they go with geographical names...

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12-07-2011, 02:39 PM
  #189
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I think what one poster said about a Lemieux conference pissing off teams that hate the Pens is legit. (Philly would never want a Lemieux conference banner in their arena). I would prefer to pick players who are a little bit longer retired, legendary, well known, and maybe not completely associated with only one team. Gretzky makes sense. I'm not sure who else.

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12-07-2011, 02:51 PM
  #190
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Naming the conferences after icons of teams in that division is as big of a joke as teams having different percentage chances to make the playoffs so nothing would surprise me. But I don't want a Bobby Orr, Guy Lafleur, etc. banner in our arena although I'm sure Flyers fans with Lemieux or Blackhawks with Howe have more of an issue with it than me.

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12-07-2011, 02:55 PM
  #191
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I think I'd just like regional names at this point -- West, Central, East, Atlantic.

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12-07-2011, 03:00 PM
  #192
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12-07-2011, 03:01 PM
  #193
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The Big Ten named their divisions Legends and Leaders, which has no basis on anything (as an Illinois alum I still have to look up what division they're in. Leaders, I think).

NHL can go with Legends, Leaders, Lovers and Losers or something like that. Endless possibilities. Body Check. Toe Drag. Top Shelf. Obstruction. etc.


I haven't read the thread. If I stole someone else's joke I apologize.

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12-07-2011, 03:05 PM
  #194
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How about naming them after great players:

Probert, Ferguson, Schultz, and Semenko sound good to me.


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12-07-2011, 03:10 PM
  #195
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How about naming them after great players:

Probert, Ferguson, Schultz, and Semenko sound good to me.

How about the Barons, Seals, Scouts, and Maroons Divisions?

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12-07-2011, 08:50 PM
  #196
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I hate the re-alignment and playoff plan.

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12-09-2011, 03:35 PM
  #197
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In the 1990 you left out the most important factor in their point totals that year. All the Adam's divisions team had inflated records feasting on the Nordiques who ended the year with 31 points. Thats right 31pts. The next lowest point total was the Nucks with 64pts. Thats one of the worst point totals in league history. Hard to argue the Adams division teams were as good as their records beating up on that team. There was no injustice there.


As for the discrepencies in 1986. The NHL let 16 of 21 teams into the playoffs back then. I'm sorry but if you can't make the playoffs in that circumstance then there is little reason to shed tears for that team. The Sabres that year were 13th out of 21 teams in points (bottom half of the league). Lets not pretend this was a bigger injustice than it was. For every year you had to battle 4 tough teams in a 5 team division to make the playoffs. There was a year or two with one weak sister in the division that guaranteed the other 4 teams a playoff spot

Yeah Quebec was bad in 1990, and there was some padding, but if they had been an average 5th place team and Buffalo had gone 4 and 4 against them the Swords still would have finished third overall. Yeah I know that's hypothetical, but they still had to play Boston, Montreal and Hartford eight times as well. In a better system they would have had an easier first round draw.
1986 - The point is in a fair system, say with a wild card, they would have been invited to the dance. Sure it was easy to make the playoffs, but why still let in four teams below you in the standings? The worst one actually went to game seven of the second round, with three of the division winners gone in round one. You can't take the girl home if you don't go to the dance. Now that is injustice.
Look, the Sabres weren't the only team shafted in those years. Its just those two stick in my craw all these years later, and I don't want to go back to a system like that. It will surely happen with the new setup.
The one thing I agree with you is the fair balanced schedule, no divisions. The NHL pretty much had that for two seasons when the WHA teams came over. Loved it. But North american sports leagues don't like it. Travel and rivalries, they say. Fairness be damned.

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