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Old
12-10-2011, 01:05 PM
  #76
Felonious Python
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Originally Posted by nhljohnson View Post
Worth remembering that Quick and Bernier aren't due to hit RFA until the summer of 2013. With a glut of defensemen and both Stoll and Penner set hit UFA, it wouldn't shock me if Lombardi moved one of the goalies at some point this upcoming summer in exchange for a young forward. That would allow Lombardi the financial flexibility to sign one of the "premium" free-agent forwards (here's looking at you, Alex Semin).

That said, if LA is going to give up split that affordable tandem before then, it's probably going to cost a premium, so, yes, I'd think that Connolly or Ashton would serve as the starting point in any negotiations.
This summer does us no good. Either we get an older goalie, where we hypothetically keep Tokarski, or we most likely trade Tik in a deal for a Bernier or Schneider, etc.

And just as a general reminder, not every trade has to include Ashton or Connolly. LA may make a move because they feel the heat to. They're 11th in the west right now, and I don't see them overcoming Vancouver or San Jose. I expect Phoenix to fall off the map at the end of the regular season, as Smith starts to feel the pressure of the possible last playoff run the Coyotes will ever have.

Lombardi didn't construct the Kings right. They lack speed in a speed game, and he's been at this for a while now, with fans and likely owners anticipating results soon. Looking at his record, he hasn't made very many good trades, I'm hard pressed to find many deals the Kings really won. (the Jack Johnson deal wasn't terrible)

The Kings don't have to give Bernier to us, that's fine. We can still go to STL, NYI, WAS, PHI, VAN, SJ, FLA, NSH, COL, or maybe even EDM or BOS will be willing to part with one.

Maybe one of them learned from Buffalo not to hang on to all your young goalies until they spoil.


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12-10-2011, 01:18 PM
  #77
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Just to give food for thought:

2012 UFA goalie list: http://www.capgeek.com/free_agents.p...G&fa_type_id=2
2012 RFA goalie list: http://www.capgeek.com/free_agents.p...G&fa_type_id=1
2012 UFA defensemen list: http://www.capgeek.com/free_agents.p...D&fa_type_id=2
2012 RFA defensemen list: http://www.capgeek.com/free_agents.p...D&fa_type_id=1

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12-10-2011, 02:16 PM
  #78
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Would be nice to see Mike Lundin back in a TBL sweater. I would trade him for Kubina anyway. Just let Kubina's contract expire, and give Lundin his cash flow.

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12-10-2011, 02:26 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Felonious Python View Post
This summer does us no good. Either we get an older goalie, where we hypothetically keep Tokarski
Garon is signed through next year. There's your veteran starter and mentor for the transition to Tokarski, if a vet + Tokarski tandem is the plan.

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Or we most likely trade Tik in a deal for a Bernier or Schneider, etc.
Tokarski would probably be part of the return, sure, but he will be no means be the centerpiece.

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And just as a general reminder, not every trade has to include Ashton or Connolly.
Put yourself in a rival GM's shoes, look at the Lightning's prospect pool and tell me who you'd target for your current young, proven starter (i.e. Quick), a young "backup" who's fully developed and outplaying the current starter (Schneider) or an NHL-ready but unproven blue-chipper with the potential to anchor the franchise for years to come (i.e. Bernier)?

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LA may make a move because they feel the heat to.
And if Yzerman makes a move, it wouldn't be out of some sense of desperation for salvaging this season too?

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Lombardi didn't construct the Kings right...
He's a great interview, but, yeah, he probably deserves a lot of second-guessing for his track record in LA.

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The Kings don't have to give Bernier to us, that's fine. We can still go to STL, NYI, WAS, PHI, VAN, SJ, FLA, NSH, COL, or maybe even EDM or BOS will be willing to part with one.
Absolutely, the Lightning will have many options.

Personally, I'd like to see Boston decide to shop Thomas for cap and personnel reasons and Yzerman swoop in a la the Gagne trade. Don't think it's likely but I could see Thomas waiving his NMC to play a few seasons with Marty and ride off into the sunset together.


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12-10-2011, 04:52 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by nhljohnson View Post
Garon is signed through next year. There's your veteran starter and mentor for the transition to Tokarski, if a vet + Tokarski tandem is the plan.



Tokarski would probably be part of the return, sure, but he will be no means be the centerpiece.



Put yourself in a rival GM's shoes, look at the Lightning's prospect pool and tell me who you'd target for your current young, proven starter (i.e. Quick), a young "backup" who's fully developed and outplaying the current starter (Schneider) or an NHL-ready but unproven blue-chipper with the potential to anchor the franchise for years to come (i.e. Bernier)?



And if Yzerman makes a move, it wouldn't be out of some sense of desperation for salvaging this season too?




He's a great interview, but, yeah, he probably deserves a lot of second-guessing for his track record in LA.



Absolutely, the Lightning will have many options.

Personally, I'd like to see Boston decide to shop Thomas for cap and personnel reasons and Yzerman swoop in a la the Gagne trade. Don't think it's likely but I could see Thomas waiving his NMC to play a few seasons with Marty and ride off into the sunset together.
SFY does not make desperation moves.


It's also because of those options that we won't have to trade Connolly or Ashton. The other teams know that options are available.

I want to win the cup this year, and it'd be more prudent to go after someone like JS Giguere. (he wouldn't be my first choice though due to gastric issues, and he's on a two-year contract)

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12-10-2011, 10:04 PM
  #81
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I think you Tampa fans just need to be patient. I mean thy in the least offensive way possible. You guys have some excellent pieces. A starting goalie and some consistent defenders will bring your team into an elite level.

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12-10-2011, 10:31 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by nhlfan9191 View Post
I think you Tampa fans just need to be patient. I mean thy in the least offensive way possible. You guys have some excellent pieces. A starting goalie and some consistent defenders will bring your team into an elite level.
And some depth scoring... so you've basically said about half a team, and we'll be fine. I've seen worst rebuilding projects, true... there are some pieces to build around, but I still don't know how I feel. I don't think we're a playoff team, and I think I'm okay with that this year (as much as I would love to win the cup).

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12-10-2011, 11:24 PM
  #83
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The scary part of this is that Brian Elliot is the best goalie statistically that will be an UFA next year. He's not someone I fully trust.

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12-10-2011, 11:50 PM
  #84
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What's the possibility of getting Cedrick back from the Av's? He's an RFA this summer, and he could definitely fill a starter role with Garon IMO.

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12-10-2011, 11:53 PM
  #85
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The scary part of this is that Brian Elliot is the best goalie statistically that will be an UFA next year. He's not someone I fully trust.
We trade for a goalie. Thats pretty well known.

Then we sign some good dmen that fit the system, and go from there.

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12-10-2011, 11:58 PM
  #86
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What's the possibility of getting Cedrick back from the Av's? He's an RFA this summer, and he could definitely fill a starter role with Garon IMO.
Absolutely not. I think its about time we stop guessing about our goaltending situation. Getting CD back and going with him and Garon next year would be absolutely pathetic and ridiculous.

We need to trade for a known commodity, young but developed, high potential and has shown he can handle it type goalie.

Honestly, I would be EXTREMELY surprised if Cory Schneider isnt out number 1 by opening night next season. He is the absolute perfect fit and its not even close.

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12-11-2011, 12:00 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by IdealisticSniper View Post
We trade for a goalie. Thats pretty well known.

Then we sign some good dmen that fit the system, and go from there.
It would be great for this team to get a goalie this season. But Roloson can't go anywhere wig his contract and giving up a great backup goalie like Garon doesn't make sense. Schneider would be a pretty good option?

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12-11-2011, 12:08 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by nhlfan9191 View Post
It would be great for this team to get a goalie this season. But Roloson can't go anywhere wig his contract and giving up a great backup goalie like Garon doesn't make sense. Schneider would be a pretty good option?
Schneider should the guy SFY hunts down and gets. He is exactly what we need to invest in.

Who cares where Garon goes. Backups are a dime a dozen. The only time they are seriously needed is when you have an older goalie and the split needs to be more like 50/32 rather than 70/12.

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12-11-2011, 12:28 AM
  #89
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What's the possibility of getting Cedrick back from the Av's? He's an RFA this summer, and he could definitely fill a starter role with Garon IMO.
His AHL numbers are good but the fact that he only has played 2 games in the NHL scares me on risking a season to see if works out or not. We would might as well look at our own who have a good amount of pro experience with Helenius and Koshechkin.

That said I agree with IdealisticSniper. This method of trying to find an unproven goalie that we think can handle everyday #1 duties and stick isn't working for us. We've gone through too many goalies since the lockout and it would be nice to not have to worry about that position for once.

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12-11-2011, 06:14 AM
  #90
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His AHL numbers are good but the fact that he only has played 2 games in the NHL scares me on risking a season to see if works out or not. We would might as well look at our own who have a good amount of pro experience with Helenius and Koshechkin.

That said I agree with IdealisticSniper. This method of trying to find an unproven goalie that we think can handle everyday #1 duties and stick isn't working for us. We've gone through too many goalies since the lockout and it would be nice to not have to worry about that position for once.
Cedrick passed through waivers like a week ago.

He seems to be injured a lot though.

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12-11-2011, 08:28 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by IdealisticSniper View Post
Schneider should the guy SFY hunts down and gets. He is exactly what we need to invest in.

Who cares where Garon goes. Backups are a dime a dozen. The only time they are seriously needed is when you have an older goalie and the split needs to be more like 50/32 rather than 70/12.
I don't think trading for Schneider, now or in the off-season, means Garon is sent packing.

A Schneider-Garon tandem for a season would be great, IMO, as, yes, Schneider would get the bulk of starts and Garon could be used more selectively.

Garon's an excellent backup but he has been used far more frequently than intended when signed behind a team that has underperformed.

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12-11-2011, 11:18 AM
  #92
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It absolutely pains me to say it but if they keep losing games here for a while longer it may be smart to get rid of some guys not named Marty, Vinny, Stamkos, Hedman to prepare for the future. We could use some draft picks for defense going forward. We could see the same problem as now down the road if we dont take care of the defense of the future this coming draft. I know we will have some money this offseason to spend so maybe just prepare for the future and next year if they keep losing. I know losing sucks but its smarter to prepare for the future so losing doesnt continue on to next year and further down the road.

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12-11-2011, 11:29 AM
  #93
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It absolutely pains me to say it but if they keep losing games here for a while longer it may be smart to get rid of some guys not named Marty, Vinny, Stamkos, Hedman to prepare for the future. We could use some draft picks for defense going forward. We could see the same problem as now down the road if we dont take care of the defense of the future this coming draft. I know we will have some money this offseason to spend so maybe just prepare for the future and next year if they keep losing. I know losing sucks but its smarter to prepare for the future so losing doesnt continue on to next year and further down the road.
Agree but would add Brewer and Connolly to the core we need to keep.
Malone may waive his NMC for a contender, else you have to consider him core.
Downie,Purcell, Aston would have to be at least a fair deal in a package for a top 4 D, or goalie.
Everyone else is replaceable.

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12-11-2011, 11:47 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by nhlfan9191 View Post
I think you Tampa fans just need to be patient. I mean thy in the least offensive way possible. You guys have some excellent pieces. A starting goalie and some consistent defenders will bring your team into an elite level.
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Originally Posted by MAB4Norris View Post
And some depth scoring... so you've basically said about half a team, and we'll be fine. I've seen worst rebuilding projects, true... there are some pieces to build around, but I still don't know how I feel. I don't think we're a playoff team, and I think I'm okay with that this year (as much as I would love to win the cup).
He doesn't mean getting a bunch of new defenders, he means players being consistent again. Remember in the playoffs when we had secondary scoring and a ballsy forecheck which took pressure off our defenders and made things more consistent across a whole sheet of ice?

We know guys like Clark, Hedman, Brewer can be smooth and consistent when we have a balanced attack but we haven't had that. If we could get everyone on the same page relatively soon I think it'd show us that we need another defender (not blowing the whole defense up) and someone with decent size and a fearless attitude to going into the corners on the forecheck and this team finds stability.

Hell, if the third and fourth lines grow balls and get back into the corners and win puck battles, we look daylights better - look at the first period last night.

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12-11-2011, 12:29 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by BoltzBalla View Post
It absolutely pains me to say it but if they keep losing games here for a while longer it may be smart to get rid of some guys not named Marty, Vinny, Stamkos, Hedman to prepare for the future. We could use some draft picks for defense going forward. We could see the same problem as now down the road if we dont take care of the defense of the future this coming draft. I know we will have some money this offseason to spend so maybe just prepare for the future and next year if they keep losing. I know losing sucks but its smarter to prepare for the future so losing doesnt continue on to next year and further down the road.
Prepare for what future? Do we think we'll get better results with a bunch of kids thrown into a more physical league?

Why are teams like Detroit so effective? Lets take a look.

1. Drafting well - taking risk on kids who may not be your prototypical players, smaller, skilled players with a great motor, drive, and IQ.

2. Developing these players - patience, patience, patience. Just because a kid has a good start doesn't mean he immediately earns a callup. Furthermore, teaching them to win. I know we're not prepared to compete in Tampa this year, we caught fire in the playoffs last year and make some things work real well but that isn't our median style of play. This year, Norfolk looks legit. Guys like Tokarski, Ashton, Conacher, Barberio, Gudas... all these guys need to learn to win. I want to see Tokarski dominate on every level he plays on, and he has up until this point. I want to see Panik understand his offensive skills are tremendous and that he needs to bring that fire consistently to the lineup, maybe the playoffs help that. I want to see Barberio and Gudas see the AHL when teams are throwing everything at you and trying to destroy you in the corners.

3. Committing to the food chain - Things have to work from the bottom up now, from junior to the ECHL to the AHL to the bigs. No one player has the same development path and our long term success hinges on this. I want our kids to understand what its like to win at each level, and in situations where that is not possible, understand what it takes to be a dominant player on a bad team. As they understand these roles moving up the chain, the transition will be easier into the bigs.

4. Rate of graduation - instead of having a "bring everyone up moment" you have a "you can battle this guy for a spot" kind of situation which does two things; it allows you to continue to have cheap replacements ready to contribute, and it allows you to keep both kids and veterans hungry. Teams like the Isles are throwing kids straight into the lineup which isn't wrong but at times breeds a sense of complacency which not only hurts the team, it stunts player development.

5. Consistency, consistency, consistency - As you build a consistent roster with low turnover you can create familiarity with the team and the system. As a team works together with this consistency you learn each other, play styles, characteristics, and it allows you to work on more complex problems and situations. You avoid the complacency with the "trickle effect" of adding a new player here and there (see Modano in DET, or Eaves, or Hossa). This could also be a kid, rather than a veteran.

6. Allure - As you create this environment for all players throughout the ranks, you develop the rapport with players that makes them want to be there, want to play for you, want to take less money to be with a team that takes care of players and gives them a chance to be a contender.

These are the things we're working on. We experienced this team with large amounts of turnover year after year with Lawton and Co. and that didn't get us terribly far with the exception of a few high draft picks and kids with decent potential. We don't need to start dumping everyone - i'd be okay with Kuby walking and resigning someone like Clark. I could see maybe a guy or two going at the deadline, not everyone.

What scares me the most is the amount of turnover we're looking at this offseason, potentially - Moore, Downie, Clark, Kuby, Shannon, Hall, Pyatt, Jones, Gilroy, Gervais, Roloson.

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12-11-2011, 01:25 PM
  #96
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What scares me the most is the amount of turnover we're looking at this offseason, potentially - Moore, Downie, Clark, Kuby, Shannon, Hall, Pyatt, Jones, Gilroy, Gervais, Roloson.
You can't institute a Detroit model without several years of cycling players through. Many of the guys we have are band-aids.

Kuby (and Clark for that matter) were signed because they were available in one year's free agent class.

Roloson was traded for out of necessity.

Jones was a pick by Feaster, like most prospects we have now were picks by Lawton, so that shouldn't really reflect on SFY.

Downie has trade value, and if we get rid of him, it'll be that way.

I'd imagine most of the other guys you listed would happily re-sign.

SFY didn't construct most of this team, but now he's getting it up to code.

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12-11-2011, 02:24 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by BoltzBalla View Post
It absolutely pains me to say it but if they keep losing games here for a while longer it may be smart to get rid of some guys not named Marty, Vinny, Stamkos, Hedman to prepare for the future. We could use some draft picks for defense going forward. We could see the same problem as now down the road if we dont take care of the defense of the future this coming draft. I know we will have some money this offseason to spend so maybe just prepare for the future and next year if they keep losing. I know losing sucks but its smarter to prepare for the future so losing doesnt continue on to next year and further down the road.
This would be the year to draft a defenseman in the 1st round, as it's rather d heavy: Murray, Dumba, Trouba, Rielly, Reinhart, Ceci, Maatta, Koekkoek, Pouliot and Ebert could all go in the top 20.

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Originally Posted by IdealisticSniper View Post
Schneider should the guy SFY hunts down and gets. He is exactly what we need to invest in.

Who cares where Garon goes. Backups are a dime a dozen. The only time they are seriously needed is when you have an older goalie and the split needs to be more like 50/32 rather than 70/12.
I agree with you that backup goalies are a dime a dozen, however I disagree with your goalie splits. Ideally, I'd want to have a #1 play 62-65 games and have our backup play 17-20, as it would keep our tender well rested enough for a playoff run. Schneider has proven that he can be a true #1 in this league; not only would he at least be good enough to win games for us, he'd be able to steal ones by himself too.

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12-11-2011, 02:33 PM
  #98
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As for Turco, I found out he's on what looks like a short-term contract with EC Salzburg for the Red Bulls Salute. The finals of the European Trophy.

From what I can gather, the tournament is considered to be exhibition games, and probably means Turco doesn't need to pass through waivers for playing 'European' games.

Eisbaren got screwed though, as they were 2nd in the western division, but Salzburg is the host.

Screw you Salzburg.


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12-11-2011, 02:39 PM
  #99
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You can't institute a Detroit model without several years of cycling players through. Many of the guys we have are band-aids.

Kuby (and Clark for that matter) were signed because they were available in one year's free agent class.

Roloson was traded for out of necessity.

Jones was a pick by Feaster, like most prospects we have now were picks by Lawton, so that shouldn't really reflect on SFY.

Downie has trade value, and if we get rid of him, it'll be that way.

I'd imagine most of the other guys you listed would happily re-sign.

SFY didn't construct most of this team, but now he's getting it up to code.
I agree, with a few exceptions. I don't think you need to cycle that many players.

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12-11-2011, 03:04 PM
  #100
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I agree, with a few exceptions. I don't think you need to cycle that many players.
puck turnovers = roster turnovers

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