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Are the Rangers tough enough?

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Old
12-08-2011, 09:28 PM
  #176
trilobyte
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Better to win games by being positionally sound. Definitely. No arguments from me there.

What would be nice would be to have maybe one guy on the back end who is positionally aware, does not go chasing people, but has that mean streak where, without throwing himself out of position (no chasing whatsoever) simply allows nature to takes it course and catches an attacker and uses physics to put him down.

I don't understand why people do not want to see that kind of player. Beukeboom was great at it, Leetch also had his moments. Going back further, Brad Park always took the body and was not mesmerized by puck movement because he just saw a player (looking at his midsection) that he needed to stop, or impede. Most of the time, all of that can be done legally, elbows down, nothing on the legs.


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Old
12-08-2011, 09:41 PM
  #177
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These kids want all their D-Men to score 50 points..They don't believe in physical play or mean streaks...The majority of this forum was raised on computer Hockey..Its a fact..Thats why they don't understand.




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Originally Posted by trilobyte View Post
Better to win games by being positionally sound. Definitely. No arguments from me there.

What would be nice would be to have maybe one guy on the back end who is positionally aware, does not go chasing people, but has that mean streak where, without throwing himself out of position (no chasing whatsoever) simply allows nature to takes it course and catches an attacker and uses physics to put him down.

I don't understand why people do not want to see that kind of player. Beukeboom was great at it, Leetch also had his moments. Going back further, Brad Park always took the body and was not mesmerized by puck movement because he just saw a player (looking at his midsection) that he needed to stop, or impede. Most of the time, all of that can be done legally, elbows down, nothing on the legs.

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Old
12-08-2011, 10:12 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by surf View Post
These kids want all their D-Men to score 50 points..They don't believe in physical play or mean streaks...The majority of this forum was raised on computer Hockey..Its a fact..Thats why they don't understand.
Without doubt, there was some foresight by Sather and the scouting crew when they picked McIlrath, but note that they also picked McNaught. To me, this tells me that they did not want to miss on getting a big physical (and hopefully punishing, but smart) presence on the back end.
Smart people realize that you will never go far without that.

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12-08-2011, 10:13 PM
  #179
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I hear that Rupp guy is pretty tough

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Old
12-08-2011, 10:30 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by surf View Post
These kids want all their D-Men to score 50 points..They don't believe in physical play or mean streaks...The majority of this forum was raised on computer Hockey..Its a fact..Thats why they don't understand.
There's no need to constantly condescend younger posters. We can't help the fact that we haven't been around for 40 years. I've been watching the rangers since i was born. My memories begin with the Rangers.

There are many people i have met who are older than me that can't analyze the game half as well as i do.

Did you ever think, for one second, that maybe we have a less biased view on the game as well due to the fact that we've been raised watching a specific style of play, while you lived through the brawl era that was the 70's?

Regardless, i find it disrespectful and belittling that you constantly bring up age as a source of argument. Many of the younger posters on here are actually very aware and understand the team as well as anyone.

If this is an opinion that you won't change then just keep it to yourself. It continuously shows how narrow minded you are and it's as bad as the argument "i've watched more games than you."

For an old guy, you really need to grow up.

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Old
12-08-2011, 10:41 PM
  #181
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I can say the same thing...You all want Fowler because he would be great on your Fantasy Teams...Truth is most of you have no clue about the game.Not all but most..Its here in the posts everyday...If you all can post about how you want 4 fast small lines I can talk about how I want the team to be..Your fearless leader Brian Boyle said yesterday we would get smoked tonight because no Sauer in the lineup..With Stralman we were doomed...Turns out McD played awful not Stralman..You young guys have built in excuses everynight..Its the same sky is falling pattern everytime we get an injury..We cant win,season is over if so in so is out 5 games...Its a joke..







Quote:
Originally Posted by Puckface NYR View Post
There's no need to constantly condescend younger posters. We can't help the fact that we haven't been around for 40 years. I've been watching the rangers since i was born. My memories begin with the Rangers.

There are many people i have met who are older than me that can't analyze the game half as well as i do.

Did you ever think, for one second, that maybe we have a less biased view on the game as well due to the fact that we've been raised watching a specific style of play, while you lived through the brawl era that was the 70's?

Regardless, i find it disrespectful and belittling that you constantly bring up age as a source of argument. Many of the younger posters on here are actually very aware and understand the team as well as anyone.

If this is an opinion that you won't change then just keep it to yourself. It continuously shows how narrow minded you are and it's as bad as the argument "i've watched more games than you."

For an old guy, you really need to grow up.

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Old
12-08-2011, 10:46 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by surf View Post
I can say the same thing...You all want Fowler because he would be great on your Fantasy Teams...Truth is most of you have no clue about the game.Not all but most..Its here in the posts everyday...If you all can post about how you want 4 fast small lines I can talk about how I want the team to be..Your fearless leader Brian Boyle said yesterday we would get smoked tonight because no Sauer in the lineup..With Stralman we were doomed...Turns out McD played awful not Stralman..You young guys have built in excuses everynight..Its the same sky is falling pattern everytime we get an injury..We cant win,season is over if so in so is out 5 games...Its a joke..
You are allowed to have whatever opinions you want on the game. Bringing age into it is where I have a problem.

I know a lot of fans, some old, some young and there are just as many young people who know about the game as old ones.

For the record, I also wanted McIlrath instead of Fowler and stand by it to this day.

If you can't see the upside to a fresh young perspective on things than you have no clue about life, let alone a game.

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Old
12-08-2011, 10:59 PM
  #183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puckface NYR View Post
There's no need to constantly condescend younger posters. We can't help the fact that we haven't been around for 40 years. I've been watching the rangers since i was born. My memories begin with the Rangers.

There are many people i have met who are older than me that can't analyze the game half as well as i do.

Did you ever think, for one second, that maybe we have a less biased view on the game as well due to the fact that we've been raised watching a specific style of play, while you lived through the brawl era that was the 70's?

Regardless, i find it disrespectful and belittling that you constantly bring up age as a source of argument. Many of the younger posters on here are actually very aware and understand the team as well as anyone.

If this is an opinion that you won't change then just keep it to yourself. It continuously shows how narrow minded you are and it's as bad as the argument "i've watched more games than you."

For an old guy, you really need to grow up.
It's the tendency of every generation to criticize and ridicule any and all generations that come after it, with the younger generation resenting the elders for it.

Any argument that is based on or concludes in the dismissal of a point due to generational differences should be considered illogical and prejudiced. I ignore them.

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Old
12-08-2011, 11:04 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by Puckface NYR View Post
You are allowed to have whatever opinions you want on the game. Bringing age into it is where I have a problem.

I know a lot of fans, some old, some young and there are just as many young people who know about the game as old ones.

For the record, I also wanted McIlrath instead of Fowler and stand by it to this day.

If you can't see the upside to a fresh young perspective on things than you have no clue about life, let alone a game.
There is a poster on these boards that I can't stand who claims he's been watching hockey for 40 years, or something like that. I almost threw up when I read that, but it proves the point: young or old, there are always idiots.

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12-08-2011, 11:27 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
There is a poster on these boards that I can't stand who claims he's been watching hockey for 40 years, or something like that. I almost threw up when I read that, but it proves the point: young or old, there are always idiots.
Would there be any valid points made by that poster you speak of, regardless of age?
Just wondering, though I agree that age should not colour an argument. Different viewpoints should be approached on their merits, not the age of anyone involved.

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12-08-2011, 11:32 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by trilobyte View Post
Would there be any valid points made by that poster you speak of, regardless of age?
Just wondering, though I agree that age should not colour an argument. Different viewpoints should be approached on their merits, not the age of anyone involved.
If there were, I hadn't read any. It was a long time before I knew the approximate age of this person, but I think my shock was more about how the poster comports himself, rather than what his opinions are.

Age and experience, in both directions, can be one of the many reasons behind someone's viewpoint. But it can't be stressed enough that this shouldn't be the determining factor on whether someone's opinion seems valid or not.

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12-08-2011, 11:35 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
If there were, I hadn't read any. It was a long time before I knew the approximate age of this person, but I think my shock was more about how the poster comports himself, rather than what his opinions are.

Age and experience, in both directions, can be one of the many reasons behind someone's viewpoint. But it can't be stressed enough that this shouldn't be the determining factor on whether someone's opinion seems valid or not.
Yes, I agree with what you say. In other words, age does not pull rank, I think that is how that saying goes.

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Old
12-09-2011, 01:35 AM
  #188
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Originally Posted by trilobyte View Post
Better to win games by being positionally sound. Definitely. No arguments from me there.

What would be nice would be to have maybe one guy on the back end who is positionally aware, does not go chasing people, but has that mean streak where, without throwing himself out of position (no chasing whatsoever) simply allows nature to takes it course and catches an attacker and uses physics to put him down.

I don't understand why people do not want to see that kind of player. Beukeboom was great at it, Leetch also had his moments. Going back further, Brad Park always took the body and was not mesmerized by puck movement because he just saw a player (looking at his midsection) that he needed to stop, or impede. Most of the time, all of that can be done legally, elbows down, nothing on the legs.
It's not about not wanting to see that player, it's simply that those players are few and far between. There are not many defenseman in the NHL who are elite positional and stick defenders who are also extremely physical. There just aren't, and most defensemen with size develop as hitters. Positional defending is not something that can be picked up overnight. The best players in this regard have been perfecting this aspect of their game for years.

The best defensive players in the NHL, regardless of position, understand that hitting is a part of the game that is to be used only when necessary, and that the best time to hit players carrying the puck up the ice is when they've come to you, not when you have to go to them. Unfortunately, most players known primarily for hitting don't always adhere to this philosophy, making most of those players less efficient defenders than their more conservative and heady peers.


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Originally Posted by surf View Post
I can say the same thing...You all want Fowler because he would be great on your Fantasy Teams...Truth is most of you have no clue about the game.Not all but most..Its here in the posts everyday...If you all can post about how you want 4 fast small lines I can talk about how I want the team to be..Your fearless leader Brian Boyle said yesterday we would get smoked tonight because no Sauer in the lineup..With Stralman we were doomed...Turns out McD played awful not Stralman..You young guys have built in excuses everynight..Its the same sky is falling pattern everytime we get an injury..We cant win,season is over if so in so is out 5 games...Its a joke..
Hard to say what effect not having Sauer had when the Lightning, in the midst of a lengthy losing streak, played without their biggest catalyst on offense, St. Louis. Although I don't think it's a coincidence that for a decent chunk of the game, they were able to generate quality chances.

Give it a rest and stop making generalizations. Plenty of people around here don't know what they're talking about, but age doesn't seem to have anything to do with it. There are both highly knowledgeable and totally uninformed posters of all ages, young and old, around here.

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12-09-2011, 08:25 AM
  #189
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I am 37, been watching the Rangers since I am about 12.

I have always preferred the bigger, meaner abrassive players...that is just my preference and what I believe is the most effective way to win and a lot of fun to watch.

Am I right....maybe, maybe not...The Bruins team would make me look right but the Wings teams of the late 90's and early 2000's would make me look wrong.

Ryan Malone was tossing Rangers around left and right last night and it is becoming more evident with each passing game that we need Rupp back and we also need to add some snarl to the blueline.

Sauer is a tough kid and so is Staal and Giradi but I am talking about a guy who is going to make someone think twice about coming into our zone.

Also McMonster had a rough game that happens when you play a kid 28 minutes a game...if Torts doesn't trust WillyWonka or Backman, I mean Stralman, then get someone in here who can give you at least 12-15 minutes a game...Giradi and McDonagh are going to die at this rate.

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12-09-2011, 08:41 AM
  #190
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A kinder gentler Surf agrees

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12-09-2011, 08:41 AM
  #191
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Michael Sauer was missed bigtime last night. Going to revert back to the first period of the game. Jones who got the callup and the $500 cab ride to MSG drives the net hard on his very first shift. He was pretty much unimpeded and collides right into Henrik knocking him down. It was head to head and for a second I thought "oh ****, Henrik's got a concussion". I thought it would lead to a melee. Instead, Strahlman and Woywitka didn't even so much look at him. I was very surprised that there was no response on the play. I don't think team toughness was much of a problem this year, but when Sauer was out it definately was glaring. The depth was not there last night.

Im definately a proponent to the rougher aspects of the game, and I 100% see the need for a bruising defenseman. Collectively as a group with Sauer the Rangers d corps are solid, but I am a little suspect over a 7 game series against a physical team. They lack a Kevin Bieksa.

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12-09-2011, 10:51 AM
  #192
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
I am 37, been watching the Rangers since I am about 12.

I have always preferred the bigger, meaner abrassive players...that is just my preference and what I believe is the most effective way to win and a lot of fun to watch.

Am I right....maybe, maybe not...The Bruins team would make me look right but the Wings teams of the late 90's and early 2000's would make me look wrong.

Ryan Malone was tossing Rangers around left and right last night and it is becoming more evident with each passing game that we need Rupp back and we also need to add some snarl to the blueline.

Sauer is a tough kid and so is Staal and Giradi but I am talking about a guy who is going to make someone think twice about coming into our zone.

Also McMonster had a rough game that happens when you play a kid 28 minutes a game...if Torts doesn't trust WillyWonka or Backman, I mean Stralman, then get someone in here who can give you at least 12-15 minutes a game...Giradi and McDonagh are going to die at this rate.
Great post. And I agree with nearly everything. While I generally don't agree with your posts I like to have an objective point of view.

At the end of the day we're all Ranger fans and want the best out of this team. Whether its a passive team that gets us a cup or the meanest sons of *****es on earth, I could care less. I want a cup and whatever gets us there im all for.

However, I have always been inclined to a tougher game. While I still think we do lack some meanness, I don't want a goon to fill that role. Hopefully McIlrath will be the player we need and if not, maybe it's time to drop some of the assets we have in a package for a mean SOB that can soak up minutes on the backline.

Regardless, this team has come a long way since even a couple years ago. While we lack a deterrent on the roster (imo) the overall mental toughness of this team seems top notch. On top of that, they don't ever seem to shy away from physical play.

The only person I really have a problem with is boyle, if he's not scoring go out there and throw some hits, play physical. I'm not asking him to be a goon and drop the gloves, but the guy needs to be the intimidating player he is capable of.

Fwiw, I really liked what i saw out of Dubinsky last night. He's been crap scoring wise this year, but he gains a ton of respect from me because he always stands up for his teammates.

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12-09-2011, 02:03 PM
  #193
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Originally Posted by Lion Hound View Post
Michael Sauer was missed bigtime last night. Going to revert back to the first period of the game. Jones who got the callup and the $500 cab ride to MSG drives the net hard on his very first shift. He was pretty much unimpeded and collides right into Henrik knocking him down. It was head to head and for a second I thought "oh ****, Henrik's got a concussion". I thought it would lead to a melee. Instead, Strahlman and Woywitka didn't even so much look at him. I was very surprised that there was no response on the play. I don't think team toughness was much of a problem this year, but when Sauer was out it definately was glaring. The depth was not there last night.
I think that's very selective reasoning. We got a penalty out of it and sometimes it's best to let the refs do their job.

Later on in the game someone took a swipe at the puck when it was just about in Hank's glovehand and Del Zotto gave the guy what was deserved and a little bit more. It was the right thing to do but on a night when the refs aren't so favourable we could have been shorthanded from that.

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Old
12-09-2011, 02:15 PM
  #194
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Originally Posted by Puckface NYR View Post
Great post. And I agree with nearly everything. While I generally don't agree with your posts I like to have an objective point of view.

At the end of the day we're all Ranger fans and want the best out of this team. Whether its a passive team that gets us a cup or the meanest sons of *****es on earth, I could care less. I want a cup and whatever gets us there im all for.

However, I have always been inclined to a tougher game. While I still think we do lack some meanness, I don't want a goon to fill that role. Hopefully McIlrath will be the player we need and if not, maybe it's time to drop some of the assets we have in a package for a mean SOB that can soak up minutes on the backline.

Regardless, this team has come a long way since even a couple years ago. While we lack a deterrent on the roster (imo) the overall mental toughness of this team seems top notch. On top of that, they don't ever seem to shy away from physical play.

The only person I really have a problem with is boyle, if he's not scoring go out there and throw some hits, play physical. I'm not asking him to be a goon and drop the gloves, but the guy needs to be the intimidating player he is capable of.

Fwiw, I really liked what i saw out of Dubinsky last night. He's been crap scoring wise this year, but he gains a ton of respect from me because he always stands up for his teammates.
I heard Kaspar's coming back

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Old
12-09-2011, 02:27 PM
  #195
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12-10-2011, 06:59 AM
  #196
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
There is a poster on these boards that I can't stand who claims he's been watching hockey for 40 years, or something like that. I almost threw up when I read that, but it proves the point: young or old, there are always idiots.
Regardless of age sex or whatever you should always respect the poster...and their opinions whether you like them or not because it is a DISCUSSION Board. Just because somebody posts something that you do not like or agree with certainly does not give you the right to label them an idiot either . Oh...BTW...I have been a Ranger fan for 40 years and I have also been watching and playing the game for more than that . I hope that does not make you ill .

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