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Cowen and Karlsson: Peanut Butter and you Jelly?

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Old
12-07-2011, 01:04 AM
  #51
Minister of Offence
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Originally Posted by The Waffler View Post
HF has had it's fair share of feuds over the years that I've been here, anyways.

Murray vs Muckler
Spezza vs Fisher

You can thank CPM and MoO if the Karlsson vs Rundblad debacles ever elevate to something bigger than they already are.


But something on-topic. I've been loving the pair over the past 2 games. In time they will gel a bit more, so the best is yet to come.
I don't think you've gotta worry about that.

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12-07-2011, 01:06 AM
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Jason Squirtle
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Back to the original thread..I am loving the tandem and I play them regularly in my NHL '12 Be a GM. I also have Volchenkov with Gonchar and Lee and Rundblad on my 3rd line pairing.

I'm seriously excited to see the two play together for the next decade or more. Cowen is slowly becoming 1 of my favourites!

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12-07-2011, 01:08 AM
  #53
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I don't think you've gotta worry about that.
...What do you know?

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12-07-2011, 01:11 AM
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Gil Gunderson
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Swedes, Tough Canadians and Local boys!
Weren't there reports that he was high on Strome?

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12-07-2011, 01:16 AM
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Weren't there reports that he was high on Strome?
Must be short for Stromestrom

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Old
12-07-2011, 01:18 AM
  #56
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...What do you know?
That my side would win!



-------------------

Murray deserves a lot of credit for hiring the people he did, TMurray and Dorion have done a bang up job in the draft and some of the early drafting is already developed and leading the charge on this team as young players.

There's 3 high ceiling players on defense to say the least and they seem to be making good use of all rounds. It seems so good that it's hard to think that we don't have a couple big hits among the players still outside of the NHL...there's quite a few high upside players in that pool and the more there are the more chance you've got to find a hit. Player Development headed by Randy Lee should also be credited quite a bit. Greening, Condra, Boro, Stone, Smith are all a pretty good example of how we've developed guys seen as marginal prospects into good NHLers or guys that appear to be on their way...and with tons of talent behind them I'd expect to score a couple more times too.

There's been some booboos but a lot of people felt he'd recover and I think he is in a pretty obvious way.


Last edited by Minister of Offence: 12-07-2011 at 01:30 AM.
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Old
12-07-2011, 06:42 AM
  #57
Ismellofhockey
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The way I remember it, the Burke-Murray feud started in 2008.
The Sens were picking 18th and Burke's Ducks were picking 17th. The Sens moved up and picked Karlsson, ahead of the Ducks. I remember journalists asking Burke if he were mad the Sens had snatched Karlsson. Burke denied it, saying Gardiner was their man.

Then in 2009, Burke was picking ahead of Murray and might want to have exacted revenge by picking the guy he thought Murray wanted. By telling Burke he wanted Kadri, Murray made sure one of Glennie or Cowen would be available.

Even more interesting, in 2011 the Sens picked 21st and Burke picked 22nd. Then we traded up to 24th, while the Leafs picked 25th.
I don't mean to say we trolled Burke both times, but there is a possibility that Murray traded up knowing that he and Burke have similar drafting tendencies.

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12-07-2011, 06:43 AM
  #58
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Does Cowen fight?

I mean, at some point other teams will start to go after Karlsson to take him out of the games, does Cowen have what it takes to dish out some if that happens?

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12-07-2011, 06:44 AM
  #59
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I wonder if they keep the Karlsson-cowen pairing when Kuba returns. If so, i would like to see this..

Karlsson-cowen
Rundblad-Kuba
Gonchar-phillips

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Old
12-07-2011, 06:57 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ismellofhockey View Post
The way I remember it, the Burke-Murray feud started in 2008.
The Sens were picking 18th and Burke's Ducks were picking 17th. The Sens moved up and picked Karlsson, ahead of the Ducks. I remember journalists asking Burke if he were mad the Sens had snatched Karlsson. Burke denied it, saying Gardiner was their man.

Then in 2009, Burke was picking ahead of Murray and might want to have exacted revenge by picking the guy he thought Murray wanted. By telling Burke he wanted Kadri, Murray made sure one of Glennie or Cowen would be available.

Even more interesting, in 2011 the Sens picked 21st and Burke picked 22nd. Then we traded up to 24th, while the Leafs picked 25th.
I don't mean to say we trolled Burke both times, but there is a possibility that Murray traded up knowing that he and Burke have similar drafting tendencies.
Stuart Percy was his guy at 25 the whole time I think. Burke was in love with the guy, and was going to take him at 21 until his scouts told him to take Biggs instead, assuring him Percy would be there at 25. Burke pretty much Followed Percy around Ontario watching him.

But yes, I do get your point, the two Ontario GM's are in a game between the two it seems.

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12-07-2011, 08:36 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Nordic View Post
Does Cowen fight?

I mean, at some point other teams will start to go after Karlsson to take him out of the games, does Cowen have what it takes to dish out some if that happens?
He does if he needs too,

http://www.hockeyfights.com/players/7764

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12-07-2011, 08:36 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Nordic View Post
Does Cowen fight?

I mean, at some point other teams will start to go after Karlsson to take him out of the games, does Cowen have what it takes to dish out some if that happens?
He fought Phaneuf in preseason and I think he had a fight away at Boston in october aswell.

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12-07-2011, 10:17 AM
  #63
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He fought Phaneuf in preseason and I think he had a fight away at Boston in october aswell.
He also faught 6-3 230 fridge Andre Deveaux of the Rangers this year.

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12-07-2011, 11:35 AM
  #64
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I think those in the know will select Cowen as a Calder Finalist. It ain't always about the points he is becoming the best player on the ice, the entire ice. Just today in the Sun they were chatting how he compared to Chara as a rookie and all were unanimous that there is no comparison...way ahead of the Big Z , is the Big C.

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12-07-2011, 11:56 AM
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I think those in the know will select Cowen as a Calder Finalist. It ain't always about the points he is becoming the best player on the ice, the entire ice. Just today in the Sun they were chatting how he compared to Chara as a rookie and all were unanimous that there is no comparison...way ahead of the Big Z , is the Big C.
At the same age there's no question who's ahead....but to say he'll be better like Brennan is a little much. The development chara went through was unique....I do think cowen looks like a stud to be though and might even get team Canada consideration down the line. Might even get wc consideration if we don't make playoffs.

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12-07-2011, 11:56 AM
  #66
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Yeah it was fun to watch them paired together at the Jets game last week.
Attached Images
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Old
12-07-2011, 01:20 PM
  #67
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I don't see Cowen getting a Calder look, mainly because I don't think he'll post the points required.

Though I did find this article.
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=589884

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12-07-2011, 01:49 PM
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Funny that so many posters bashed the **** out of Murray for ruining this franchise. But looks the opposite now.

Cowen has been very good for us considering its his rookie year.
He's becoming one of my favorite Senators.
I tried to put some "reason" and perspective into the debates... rarely worked. Hopefully it did for a few people and they able to see the facts and have an educated opinion instead of just bashing for bashing like headcut chickens.

Even moves that were judged catastrophic by the fanbase like the Heatley deal looks a lot better now, in hindsight. And I think with time, more people finally understood that players like Kelly and Neil are not really overpaid at 2M$ per season on a 60M$ salary cap. It takes more time for some people to see light, it has always been the case, and not only on HF. All I know is I have prepared a lot of crow meals on this board and also took an insane amount of heat for it, lulz. I don't care though, it was all good fun.

So, to have an "educated opinion" you need to put everything in perspective, and realize first that Murray was instructed to win and keep the team as a contender after that SCF run (peak) but in reality the team was bound to decline (Redden, Heatley, Alfie getting older, RFAs cashed in, Emery, Corvo, Meszaros... and most importantly no prospect pool to replace declining/leaving talent).

The "patching jobs" rarely works in the NHL so even if the team was able to make the playoffs in 2009-10, the inevitable was about to happen, and for the best (youth movement). We are now able to see cleanly what was really Murray's work that started with the selection of Erik Karlsson in the 2008 draft, 3.5 years ago

Finally, one last point, is don't forget that the franchise really wanted to win the Cup with Alfie's as their captain, so they tried as long as they could. Unfortunately, it was impossible with the drafting we had from 2002 to 2007.

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12-07-2011, 02:23 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
At the same age there's no question who's ahead....but to say he'll be better like Brennan is a little much. The development chara went through was unique....I do think cowen looks like a stud to be though and might even get team Canada consideration down the line. Might even get wc consideration if we don't make playoffs.
I think the whole hockey universe was stunned at Chara's progression in Ottawa to what he is in Boston today...do you think he is any better in Boston than his last season here?

It would be hard to chart Cowen's progression, but his last 10 games have been unbelievable. He is getting noticed and it is the minutes in a awinning situation that is amazing. Lots of rebuilding teams play young players a lot while they are getting smoked but Cowen has been a factor in our success which is impressive.

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12-07-2011, 03:50 PM
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I think the whole hockey universe was stunned at Chara's progression in Ottawa to what he is in Boston today...do you think he is any better in Boston than his last season here?

It would be hard to chart Cowen's progression, but his last 10 games have been unbelievable. He is getting noticed and it is the minutes in a awinning situation that is amazing. Lots of rebuilding teams play young players a lot while they are getting smoked but Cowen has been a factor in our success which is impressive.
His offense continued to develop into Boston. It's just freakish that he's a competent PP QB and that his puck skills came so far.

I think I can go back to last year where I said Cowen could be one of the best shutdown D in the league, a Pronger or Chara like player in his own end....but the offense would be the part that holds him back from being at the caliber of those two. Pronger and Chara are at pretty similar levels in the offensive end. But it's true, Cowen's ability with the puck and his skating have improved a lot lately and immensely from a seasons passed. He's basically playing pretty close to the level I hoped he'd be playing 2-3 years from now. Late last year he was arguably ready for NHL top 4 duty and was still in junior.

One need only look here to get an idea of how far he's come:



I always thought the big question with Cowen was, could he develop coordination as he fills out into his huge frame. So far, it's pretty encouraging. It's impossible to gauge how far he could come, for me at least, you only have so many examples of massive young Dmen with potential to refer too. But we did see what happened with Chara.

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12-07-2011, 05:20 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
At the same age there's no question who's ahead....but to say he'll be better like Brennan is a little much. The development chara went through was unique....I do think cowen looks like a stud to be though and might even get team Canada consideration down the line. Might even get wc consideration if we don't make playoffs.
I wouldn't call Chara's development unique, he used his size and strength to create opportunities and space on the ice for himself, and of course worked hard on his conditioning/strength and game.

Cowen has more natural skill than Chara, so the only question that remains to be answered, is whether Cowen will work as hard as Chara to get the most out of himself. His past successes, including recovery from a knee injury, indicate it is very likely he will.?

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12-07-2011, 05:23 PM
  #72
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I tried to put some "reason" and perspective into the debates... rarely worked. Hopefully it did for a few people and they able to see the facts and have an educated opinion instead of just bashing for bashing like headcut chickens.

Even moves that were judged catastrophic by the fanbase like the Heatley deal looks a lot better now, in hindsight. And I think with time, more people finally understood that players like Kelly and Neil are not really overpaid at 2M$ per season on a 60M$ salary cap. It takes more time for some people to see light, it has always been the case, and not only on HF. All I know is I have prepared a lot of crow meals on this board and also took an insane amount of heat for it, lulz. I don't care though, it was all good fun.

So, to have an "educated opinion" you need to put everything in perspective, and realize first that Murray was instructed to win and keep the team as a contender after that SCF run (peak) but in reality the team was bound to decline (Redden, Heatley, Alfie getting older, RFAs cashed in, Emery, Corvo, Meszaros... and most importantly no prospect pool to replace declining/leaving talent).

The "patching jobs" rarely works in the NHL so even if the team was able to make the playoffs in 2009-10, the inevitable was about to happen, and for the best (youth movement). We are now able to see cleanly what was really Murray's work that started with the selection of Erik Karlsson in the 2008 draft, 3.5 years ago

Finally, one last point, is don't forget that the franchise really wanted to win the Cup with Alfie's as their captain, so they tried as long as they could. Unfortunately, it was impossible with the drafting we had from 2002 to 2007.
Yep seen many a battle over my support of BM since day 1 ,people in ottawa just thought we would be good forever.We needed to get younger and Bm started this trend the first day he took the job

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Old
12-07-2011, 05:26 PM
  #73
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I wouldn't call Chara's development unique, he used his size and strength to create opportunities and space on the ice for himself, and of course worked hard on his conditioning/strength and game.

Cowen has more natural skill than Chara, so the only question that remains to be answered, is whether Cowen will work as hard as Chara to get the most out of himself. His past successes, including recovery from a knee injury, indicate it is very likely he will.?
Conditioning/strength, space on the ice with size and strength has nothing to do with developing the ability over time to walk the line on the powerplay and chip tight back hand saucer passes to the open man on the point.

If Cowen ever develops Chara's puck skills, he may well not be that far off from Chara, because Cowen's got the mind for it IMO. But yeah, I'm not sure there's ever been a 6'8 250+ monster on the blue line that went from massive project to a guy that could not only dominate in his own end...but QB you're #1 PP unit....and excel at it.

For those reasons, it is unique.

Pronger's fairly similar...but also weighs a good 40 pounds less. Not only that, people expected Pronger to do it at both ends.

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12-07-2011, 08:07 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Mercurial View Post
I don't see Cowen getting a Calder look, mainly because I don't think he'll post the points required.

Though I did find this article.
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=589884
I really think Nugent is a lock for the Calder. Really impressive kid. But so is Cowen. But i think that if they pick a D it would be Larsson in Devils. That guy is really really impressive. And that is not easy to admit as a Rangers fan.

I do however think that you guys have some serious talent on the D. And can become a huge threat in time to any team. Runblad isn´t that impressive right now. But i think he can develop to a "Karlsson" type of player. That wouldn´t be to shabby for you guys

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12-07-2011, 08:12 PM
  #75
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Larsson's unreal.

Better than Cowen right now, already.

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