HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Los Angeles Kings
Notices

Gm #27 Kings @ Ducks, 12/6/11 - Post Game LOSS, Thoughts & Tidbits

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-07-2011, 12:35 AM
  #126
Cruel11
Classless Kings
 
Cruel11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 14,497
vCash: 500
“I liked the effort in the first period, and the third period was a good effort, good work.

Cruel11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2011, 12:35 AM
  #127
JBernierFan
Drink up!
 
JBernierFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Diego
Country: United States
Posts: 3,777
vCash: 500
I just finished watching the game. **** THAT. That's all I can say right now

JBernierFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2011, 12:36 AM
  #128
Josh Deitell
Hockey's Future Staff
 
Josh Deitell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Boston
Country: United States
Posts: 3,206
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chazz Reinhold View Post
This team has not played "well on a regular basis" for any pertinent stretch this season. I don't expect them to dominate like they did in the third, but it's pretty obvious this team has another level they can take it to, but it rarely happens. They have a pacifist coach who doesn't believe in the need to motivate players and pacifist captain who has decided he no longer needs to support on the forecheck, so I guess it's not surprising the rest of the team is following suit.
They haven't but I think you agree they're capable of it.

I agree that a change in coaching would spark this team but it's for the wrong reason. We have a system in place that, when executed as a unit, dominates. If you bring in a new coach, you get the initial motivation from the firing, but you're either talking about a) keeping the same type of system and having a new figurehead or b) implementing an entirely new system and dealing with the inevitable delay in getting things operating cohesively. If you think this team has reached it's peak in its current form, I think it's the right move, but otherwise you run the risk of your new coach operating to a lesser level than your old one, and that can set you back, especially when the change happens mid-season and you don't have time to run training camps and teach the system. If the axing is going to happen, it should and probably will happen in the offseason.

Josh Deitell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2011, 12:39 AM
  #129
tomd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,697
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTKingsFan View Post
To have many consider the Kings to have the best top 6 in the NHL and be dead last in scoring is unacceptable! Terry Murray needs to be fired just for that reason alone!


Defense does not win championships! You have score a goal to win. You could keep teams to 1 or 2 goals a game all season long but it's completely meaningless if you don't score at an average of 3 goals a game!
Those who think the Kings have the best top 6 in the NHL are truly delusional. Maybe one of the top 5 1-2 center combinations but it drops WAY off after that. Williams, Gagne, Penner, and Brown are not in anyone's top 10 list of wingers in the NHL.

tomd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2011, 12:41 AM
  #130
Chazz Reinhold
Registered User
 
Chazz Reinhold's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: The Stanley Cup
Country: United States
Posts: 6,933
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Deitell View Post
They haven't but I think you agree they're capable of it.

I agree that a change in coaching would spark this team but it's for the wrong reason. We have a system in place that, when executed as a unit, dominates. If you bring in a new coach, you get the initial motivation from the firing, but you're either talking about a) keeping the same type of system and having a new figurehead or b) implementing an entirely new system and dealing with the inevitable delay in getting things operating cohesively. If you think this team has reached it's peak in its current form, I think it's the right move, but otherwise you run the risk of your new coach operating to a lesser level than your old one, and that can set you back, especially when the change happens mid-season and you don't have time to run training camps and teach the system. If the axing is going to happen, it should and probably will happen in the offseason.
This team doesn't have the players to play Murray's system anymore. Smyth, Handzus, Simmonds, Frolov, Modin, Ponikarovsky, etc. were all players who could play the grind it out and sustain the cycle type of play Murray wants. This team does not have those type of players in major roles anymore. That is exactly why this team has not been effective at all this season. Even when they win it's not like they wore down the opposing team with a great cycle game.

Murray stubbornly requires his players to play a type of game that his personnel does not match.

Chazz Reinhold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2011, 12:45 AM
  #131
Sydor25
LA Kings
 
Sydor25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: North Texas
Country: United States
Posts: 21,829
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Sydor25
Why do people keep saying that Murray has a system that dominates? When was that taking place?

273 games. 29th in total offense. If they "dominated" for any long stretches, shouldn't they at least be closer to 15th in total offense?

Kings are now officially 30th in offense right now. Dead last. Think about that for a second. That's not bad luck. That's a sign of a much larger problem. Whether it is motivational techniques or technical system issues, whatever Murray is doing doesn't work.

Lombardi is about to make the biggest decision of his LA Kings career and he will be judged on how well the team performs on the ice for the rest of the season. He can fire Murray, make a significant trade or do nothing. His job could depend on it.

What if AEG asks Dean to cut the payroll? That should be the biggest fear of Kings fans.

Sydor25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2011, 12:47 AM
  #132
Josh Deitell
Hockey's Future Staff
 
Josh Deitell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Boston
Country: United States
Posts: 3,206
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chazz Reinhold View Post
This team doesn't have the players to play Murray's system anymore. Smyth, Handzus, Simmonds, Frolov, Modin, Ponikarovsky, etc. were all players who could play the grind it out and sustain the cycle type of play Murray wants. This team does not have those type of players in major roles anymore. That is exactly why this team has not been effective at all this season. Even when they win it's not like they wore down the opposing team with a great cycle game.

Murray stubbornly requires his players to play a type of game that his personnel does not match.
I agree that we don't have the personnel to play a cycling system but I don't think that's the MO anymore. It looks to me like we're trying to shift to Murray's version of a dynamic system (there's a joke in there somewhere) and there are some growing pains associated with that. It might not even end up working out, but it's too soon to tell.

Josh Deitell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2011, 12:47 AM
  #133
Sydor25
LA Kings
 
Sydor25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: North Texas
Country: United States
Posts: 21,829
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Sydor25
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomd View Post
Those who think the Kings have the best top 6 in the NHL are truly delusional. Maybe one of the top 5 1-2 center combinations but it drops WAY off after that. Williams, Gagne, Penner, and Brown are not in anyone's top 10 list of wingers in the NHL.
How many teams have 6 30 goal scoring forwards on their team? In the cap era, that is a solid top 6. Add in 2 top defensemen and 2 solid goalies to go with 2 elite centers.

The Kings shouldn't be anywhere near 30th in offense.

Sydor25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2011, 12:48 AM
  #134
PSP
Couldn't Be Happier!
 
PSP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Lake Forest, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 4,266
vCash: 500
Does it make any of you feel better if you imagine things that aren't real? At some point you have see what is actually there and accept that it isn't the way that you wish it would be.

PSP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2011, 12:50 AM
  #135
kingscourt26
Registered User
 
kingscourt26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 263
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
How many teams have 6 30 goal scoring forwards on their team? In the cap era, that is a solid top 6. Add in 2 top defensemen and 2 solid goalies to go with 2 elite centers.

The Kings shouldn't be anywhere near 30th in offense.
And how many of those 30+ scorers will reach 30 this year? I played competitive hockey for a long time and I can tell you it's a broken system in post lockout hockey. The NHL built the league around scoring more goals and we're still cycling to the point and dumping and chasing.

kingscourt26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2011, 12:51 AM
  #136
Sydor25
LA Kings
 
Sydor25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: North Texas
Country: United States
Posts: 21,829
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Sydor25
Quote:
Originally Posted by PSP View Post
Does it make any of you feel better if you imagine things that aren't real? At some point you have see what is actually there and accept that it isn't the way that you wish it would be.
You have to be surprised to see this roster at 30th in offense, right?

I still believe in the roster that Dean has built. But it's now in him to get the results on the ice.

Sydor25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2011, 12:51 AM
  #137
Fishhead
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,995
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Deitell View Post
They haven't but I think you agree they're capable of it.

I agree that a change in coaching would spark this team but it's for the wrong reason. We have a system in place that, when executed as a unit, dominates.
The system only dominates if teams don't adjust to it. It is very predictable. I would say the Kings looked dominant in maybe 2 or 3 games this year. That's about 10%.

I get that there will be an adjustment period, but it's not like success has never happened in this situation. A few seasons ago Bylsma took over the Pens in February, the team went on a tear, and won the cup that year. Robinson did the same with the Devils, and IIRC he took over with about 10 games left.

This team doesn't need a strong, structured system any longer. There is plenty of talent on the roster and guys who know how to play the game. What they need is accountability and they aren't being held to a standard. Well, I shouldn't say that. Certain players are being held to a standard, while others are not. The Kings are too comfortable right now, and that's not good.

Fishhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2011, 12:51 AM
  #138
Josh Deitell
Hockey's Future Staff
 
Josh Deitell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Boston
Country: United States
Posts: 3,206
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PSP View Post
Does it make any of you feel better if you imagine things that aren't real? At some point you have see what is actually there and accept that it isn't the way that you wish it would be.
Considering everyone on this board knows near nothing about what goes on behind closed doors, it's mostly aspeculation that fuels the arguments here anyway, going both ways.

Josh Deitell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2011, 12:52 AM
  #139
tomd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,697
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
How many teams have 6 30 goal scoring forwards on their team? In the cap era, that is a solid top 6. Add in 2 top defensemen and 2 solid goalies to go with 2 elite centers.

The Kings should be anywhere near 30th in offense.
stop with the 6 30 goal scorer garbage already!!!

Penner will never score 30 again. Gagne will never score 30 again. Williams will never score 30 again. Their best days are behind them. Brown sure doesn't look like he'll ever score 30 again but I'll concede that at least he has a chance.

This team has two good centers and 4 mediocre wingers in the top 6. That is the reality TODAY. Thinking a player can score 30 goals just because he did 3-5 years ago isn't realistic. Unless you think Trent Hunter will score 25 again...

tomd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2011, 12:53 AM
  #140
Sydor25
LA Kings
 
Sydor25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: North Texas
Country: United States
Posts: 21,829
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Sydor25
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingscourt26 View Post
And how many of those 30+ scorers will reach 30 this year? I played competitive hockey for a long time and I can tell you it's a broken system in post lockout hockey. The NHL built the league around scoring more goals and we're still cycling to the point and dumping and chasing.
That's my point. The roster is fine. It's the leadership at the top that isn't getting enough from the roster.

Richards might still get to 30 goals. That's about it without a coaching change.

Sydor25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2011, 12:55 AM
  #141
kingscourt26
Registered User
 
kingscourt26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 263
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
That's my point. The roster is fine. It's the leadership at the top that isn't getting enough from the roster.

Richards might still get to 30 goals. That's about it without a coaching change.
We agree then

kingscourt26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2011, 12:57 AM
  #142
KingLB
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,958
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomd View Post
stop with the 6 30 goal scorer garbage already!!!

Penner will never score 30 again. Gagne will never score 30 again. Williams will never score 30 again. Their best days are behind them. Brown sure doesn't look like he'll ever score 30 again but I'll concede that at least he has a chance.

This team has two good centers and 4 mediocre wingers in the top 6. That is the reality TODAY. Thinking a player can score 30 goals just because he did 3-5 years ago isn't realistic. Unless you think Trent Hunter will score 25 again...
Tell that to Selanne of what 8 years ago? When he had like 5 goals on the AVS....or Versteeg on Philly....Hell any winger that has left the Kings in the last few years....

KingLB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2011, 12:59 AM
  #143
Sydor25
LA Kings
 
Sydor25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: North Texas
Country: United States
Posts: 21,829
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Sydor25
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomd View Post
stop with the 6 30 goal scorer garbage already!!!

Penner will never score 30 again. Gagne will never score 30 again. Williams will never score 30 again. Their best days are behind them. Brown sure doesn't look like he'll ever score 30 again but I'll concede that at least he has a chance.

This team has two good centers and 4 mediocre wingers in the top 6. That is the reality TODAY. Thinking a player can score 30 goals just because he did 3-5 years ago isn't realistic. Unless you think Trent Hunter will score 25 again...
Penner was on pace for 28 just last season. None of these guys are way past their prime. Of course, they aren't all going to score 30 in the same season, but the ability to score goals is there. 20 goals for them shouldn't be a problem, with 2 or 3 getting 30 goals.

Only 2 of them are on pace for 20 goals.


And 2 "good" centers? Both have PPG potential and aren't even in their prime. I would put them above good.

Sydor25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2011, 01:00 AM
  #144
PSP
Couldn't Be Happier!
 
PSP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Lake Forest, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 4,266
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Deitell View Post
Considering everyone on this board knows near nothing about what goes on behind closed doors, it's mostly aspeculation that fuels the arguments here anyway, going both ways.
I don't care what happens behind closed doors

My opinions are driven by my observations and the stats that the team puts up.

PSP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2011, 01:03 AM
  #145
kingsfan28
Its All About Sv Pct
 
kingsfan28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Earth
Country: United States
Posts: 9,225
vCash: 500
Would replacing a coach during the holidays be considered a dick move, or does it really matter?

kingsfan28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2011, 01:03 AM
  #146
I am the Liquor
Registered User
 
I am the Liquor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Sunnyvale
Country: Canada
Posts: 33,828
vCash: 3099
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
You have to be surprised to see this roster at 30th in offense, right?

I still believe in the roster that Dean has built. But it's now in him to get the results on the ice.
You guys dont really have much up front after Kopitar and Richards.

Gagne was good eight years ago and Williams is hit and miss.

Youve got an under-performing/injured Penner, Brown who is good for around twenty goals and what else really?

Fact is this team just doesnt have the talent up front right now to run and gun. So you are probably better off playing a defensive system anyway.

You cant put jockeys on donkeys and expect them to win the Kentucky Derby.

I am the Liquor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2011, 01:06 AM
  #147
Sydor25
LA Kings
 
Sydor25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: North Texas
Country: United States
Posts: 21,829
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Sydor25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Deitell View Post
Considering everyone on this board knows near nothing about what goes on behind closed doors, it's mostly aspeculation that fuels the arguments here anyway, going both ways.
We all can see what goes on behind the bench. Do you really think Murray is much different behind closed doors?

Do you believe the Kings should be 30th in offense at the 1/3 point of the season with this roster? You either move significant pieces, which is difficult to do mid-season with the cap, or your change the leadership.

Doing nothing is the worst choice. Murray has shown he is a defense only coach. The Kings need better balance.

Sydor25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2011, 01:08 AM
  #148
Sydor25
LA Kings
 
Sydor25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: North Texas
Country: United States
Posts: 21,829
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Sydor25
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsfan28 View Post
Would replacing a coach during the holidays be considered a dick move, or does it really matter?
Lou did it last year. Something like 3 days before Christmas too.

Sydor25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2011, 01:08 AM
  #149
bobafettish*
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 5,961
vCash: 500
lose the next 4, drop below .500, fire murray and hire carlyle.

bobafettish* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2011, 01:08 AM
  #150
Josh Deitell
Hockey's Future Staff
 
Josh Deitell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Boston
Country: United States
Posts: 3,206
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PSP View Post
I don't care what happens behind closed doors

My opinions are driven by my observations and the stats that the team puts up.
I'm not calling your observations and opinions meaningless - far from it, I always think it's interesting reading a perspective that tends to totally oppose mine - but when we see this team for three hour stretches every couple days we're not getting the whole picture. That's all I'm saying

Josh Deitell is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:26 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.