Just a guess here...But I bet he puts up historic numbers next year. He's going to flat out dominate next year with even more muscle.
I don't agree about the numbers going up. I think he will go over 100 points but Bartschi has been a big part of his success whether we want to admit it or not. I don't see this as a bad thing, all it says is he can exploit defenses when a strong set-up man is on his line. He'll play with skilled players in the NHL so it's no knock on him. I also don't think it's an automatic extrapolation once you get to a certain top production level. It's pretty difficult to go any higher than where he's at right now, considering that you need to be on a powerhouse offensive team and have great linemates. Nobody had scored that many points in 13 years in the WHL until this season.
Consider: Petro didn't go back to junior and put up crazy numbers his final year, but the quality of his play was exceptional. At 100-110 points and a better defensive player with a stronger two way game and a WJC appearance is progress for Ty Rattie. We know he can score. Now it's just about getting him ready to compete at the next level and that's about strength and defensive responsibility. I think they'll talk to him at camp, he'll understand it, and he'll go back and work on it like a demon.
Oh, I understand how abnormal this season has been. I looked up the past years scoring records, but I still think he puts up 140 points next year...Especially if Sven is still there.
IF Bartschi doesn't make the Flames and if Portland continues to be loaded throughout the lineup then it's possible he's in the ballpark with numbers for this year. I would bet quite heavily against a 140 point year, particularly given that he'll miss more games for the WJC.
IF Bartschi doesn't make the Flames and if Portland continues to be loaded throughout the lineup then it's possible he's in the ballpark with numbers for this year. I would bet quite heavily against a 140 point year, particularly given that he'll miss more games for the WJC.
Bartschi counts as a 20 year old next year and can play in the AHL ... I'd say the chances of him coming back to Portland are right around 5%
Bartschi counts as a 20 year old next year and can play in the AHL ... I'd say the chances of him coming back to Portland are right around 5%
I'd say it's pretty much a guarantee that Bartschi is playing in either the NHL or AHL next season...and I'd heavily lean towards him being in Calgary and not their farm team. The kid scored 3 goals in his 5 ga mes for the Flames this season as an emergency call-up so he certainly seems ready from an offensive standpoint. The only way I see Bartschi on the Flames is if he still needs to gain more strength but he's fairly well filled out already - a shorter but stockier guy with tremendous hockey sense...pretty similar to Schwartz actually.
As this is a Rattie thread I suppose I should mention his name! Ty will have to play next season in the Dub without Bartschi but I think that will be good for him. He'll have to learn to be able to adapt to different playing styles, partners, etc. I would guess that he'll be paired with either Brendan Leipsic (I think projected to go in the mid to late rounds this June) or Nicolas Petan (a very talented kid who isn't draft eligible until 2013). My guess is that next season, Rattie doesn't quite reach the numbers he got this season. His offensive skills aren't what he needs to work on though. What he needs to concentrate on to become NHL ready is getting bigger and stronger, strengthening his defensive/two-way game and his other play without the puck.
I'd say it's pretty much a guarantee that Bartschi is playing in either the NHL or AHL next season...and I'd heavily lean towards him being in Calgary and not their farm team. The kid scored 3 goals in his 5 ga mes for the Flames this season as an emergency call-up so he certainly seems ready from an offensive standpoint. The only way I see Bartschi on the Flames is if he still needs to gain more strength but he's fairly well filled out already - a shorter but stockier guy with tremendous hockey sense...pretty similar to Schwartz actually.
As this is a Rattie thread I suppose I should mention his name! Ty will have to play next season in the Dub without Bartschi but I think that will be good for him. He'll have to learn to be able to adapt to different playing styles, partners, etc. I would guess that he'll be paired with either Brendan Leipsic (I think projected to go in the mid to late rounds this June) or Nicolas Petan (a very talented kid who isn't draft eligible until 2013). My guess is that next season, Rattie doesn't quite reach the numbers he got this season. His offensive skills aren't what he needs to work on though. What he needs to concentrate on to become NHL ready is getting bigger and stronger, strengthening his defensive/two-way game and his other play without the puck.
Leipsic is a first line player next year, no doubt in my mind. At the start of the season, I had him as my #2 forward in the WHL draft ranking for a time, but he's slipped a bit. He and Rattie will make a formidable top line duo, and the Hawks have some guys who can slide up ... Taylor Leier had a quietly good season as a 17 year old rookie; someone like that could be a nice complimentary piece that would work alongside Rattie and Leipsic.
A more concerning aspect would be the defensemen they'll be graduating to the pro ranks ... they have six on their roster right now that will be legitimate pro players (probably four NHLers), and of those they will probably only be returning three. Really, for Rattie to even duplicate his point total from this year will be an impressive feat - I wouldn't bank on him upping that total too much, but you never know.
The odds are at least 99-1 in my favor, and there isn't anything I could even think of I'd want another person's avatar to be. But I'll be happy to tell you you were right and I was wrong if it happens. I just think you're making an extrapolation error. There are ceilings. If he scored 140 next year, should he be expected to score 160 the year after, and 180 the year after that, and 200 the year after that? Where does it stop? Greztky scored 92? Shouldn't he have scored over 100 goals the following year? Does the fact that he didn't mean anything significant about his development?
Gretzky should have had 100. If Shinnimin can put up 134, Rattie can be better. That goes for Stone as well. These are older guys that took advantage of size and development curve. Rattie is half a year behind Stone and much further behind Shinnimin. He has better vision than both and has an overpowered shot for juniors. This kid was always billed as a dangerous scorer, but dropped for whatever reason. He was around 2ppg for most of the year. I expect him to stay at the pace again with a better physical presence in his own end. Even if he doesn't hit 140 due to the likely participation in the WJCs, I still think he'll be around 130. All of this discussion is moot of course because junior numbers don't translate to the NHL. And yes...I knew if a bet was made it would have to compensate for the odds I'd be accepting lol.
I will just have to wait for Tarasenko and Rattie to join The Blues and to see Schwartz, Shattenkirk and Cole develop. It will be tough. I guess The Blues winning The Stanley Cup this season will ease the pain of that impatient waiting period.
That's just pathetic. The 27-8 combo is unfair. Is this how every game looked against Portland?
Pretty much...the last 3 games were 6-3, 4-0, 6-3 against Kelowna. Bärtschi came up to the NHL for 5 games(between Mar 7-18), and scored 3 goals and was sent back down. During that time Rattie played 6 games and had 4 goals and 7 assists. That is 1.83PPG compared to his season average of 1.75. So, I know that's only a small sample, but perhaps you're right that Rattie can keep up(or possibly even increase)his point production without Bärtschi. I wouldn't bet on him getting 140 points next season, but nothing would surprise me. Also, based on those numbers...I could see him possibly becoming a bit more of a playmaker to make up for Bärtschi's absence.
Pretty much...the last 3 games were 6-3, 4-0, 6-3 against Kelowna. Bärtschi came up to the NHL for 5 games(between Mar 7-18), and scored 3 goals and was sent back down. During that time Rattie played 6 games and had 4 goals and 7 assists. That is 1.83PPG compared to his season average of 1.75. So, I know that's only a small sample, but perhaps you're right that Rattie can keep up(or possibly even increase)his point production without Bärtschi. I wouldn't bet on him getting 140 points next season, but nothing would surprise me. Also, based on those numbers...I could see him possibly becoming a bit more of a playmaker to make up for Bärtschi's absence.
I think THAT may happen due to Bärtschi's absence. He'll probably score less goals and get more assists (at least relatively). I don't think he'll reach 140 again, but he should be enough over 100, with Portland still a very a strong team.
I will just have to wait for Tarasenko and Rattie to join The Blues and to see Schwartz, Shattenkirk and Cole develop. It will be tough. I guess The Blues winning The Stanley Cup this season will ease the pain of that impatient waiting period.
It really warms my heart to see a long-time fan like Robb getting excited about the chance of a Cup run. Even if they don't get there this season, the future for the Blues looks very bright. The window is officially open.
Scoring was abnormally high in the WHL this season, I don't think it is fair to think Rattie can significantly increase his scoring to 140 points in the WHL. I suspect he will end up around 120, give or take 10.
At camp, Blues management will give him things to work on, and I think he will focus more on getting NHL ready, than scoring a ton of points. Next season will be about preparing for the NHL, not scoring as many points as possible.
Scoring was abnormally high in the WHL this season, I don't think it is fair to think Rattie can significantly increase his scoring to 140 points in the WHL. I suspect he will end up around 120, give or take 10.
At camp, Blues management will give him things to work on, and I think he will focus more on getting NHL ready, than scoring a ton of points. Next season will be about preparing for the NHL, not scoring as many points as possible.
Similar to what happened with Pietrangelo after his first 9-game "trial" with The Blues. He concentrated on defence.
Rattie will concentrate on positioning on defence, positioning on offence without the puck, passing, learning how to use his body effeciently (on the forecheck and to impede the progress of the opponent on defence)-how to make solid checks without taking yourself out of the flow of the play, reading plays on defence, etc.
I wonder if The Blues might want to keep him longer in Camp and for the whole pre-season, and also for the maximum 9 regular season games in 2012-13, before sending him back to The WHL, so he can work with their coaches longer, work with their trainers longer, and learn (ahead of time-as did Pietrangelo) what he needs to work on to prepare himself for playing in The NHL?
Similar to what happened with Pietrangelo after his first 9-game "trial" with The Blues. He concentrated on defence.
Rattie will concentrate on positioning on defence, positioning on offence without the puck, passing, learning how to use his body effeciently (on the forecheck and to impede the progress of the opponent on defence)-how to make solid checks without taking yourself out of the flow of the play, reading plays on defence, etc.
I wonder if The Blues might want to keep him longer in Camp and for the whole pre-season, and also for the maximum 9 regular season games in 2012-13, before sending him back to The WHL, so he can work with their coaches longer, work with their trainers longer, and learn (ahead of time-as did Pietrangelo) what he needs to work on to prepare himself for playing in The NHL?
I'm really hoping there is room on the roster for this to happen. I think that it really helped out Pietrangelo. I think we are also seeing what happens when a player's talent gets them far quickly without rounding out their development (Stewart).
That's just pathetic. The 27-8 combo is unfair. Is this how every game looked against Portland?
It's not usually that easy for them. Kelowna had given up, and were only in this game because they were on their home ice. Otherwise, it might have even been worse ... don't expect the same against Kamloops ... I'll be really surprised if they do as well, anyhow.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedblue1223
Scoring was abnormally high in the WHL this season, I don't think it is fair to think Rattie can significantly increase his scoring to 140 points in the WHL. I suspect he will end up around 120, give or take 10.
At camp, Blues management will give him things to work on, and I think he will focus more on getting NHL ready, than scoring a ton of points. Next season will be about preparing for the NHL, not scoring as many points as possible.
This is correct all around. My most recent article actually talks about how this year was an anomaly - the highest goal scorer and points total since Pavel Brendl in 1999. I won't expect the same next year, even with the influx of top prospects at forward (the 2013 WHL draft class is scary) ... so, my bet is Rattie will end up in the 100-110 point range, which should almost definitely put him in the scoring title race. Not playing against the run and gun Tri City Americans (who are literally about to lose all of their top scoring players) will be enough to supplant 10-15 points alone. Rattie will definitely need to work on rounding out his game, and will be counted on to play a more complete game if the Hawks are going to contend again.
Rattie's numbers will go down next year if for no other reason than he's likely a shoe-in for the WJC squad (he was the last forward cut this year), and will miss about a month of the season.
Rattie's numbers will go down next year if for no other reason than he's likely a shoe-in for the WJC squad (he was the last forward cut this year), and will miss about a month of the season.
The junior leagues go on a bit of a break. He'll miss about two or three more games than he did this year (see, e.g., Mark Stone).
With how much depth we have at forward we can let him play another year at Portland and hopefully a year in Peoria too.
I still think we rushed Schwartz. Why did we bring him up again? To burn a year of his contract so he can sit in the press box?
Nobody will deny that we rushed Schwartz, but it is what needed to be done. Nobody expected him to be fully ready for the NHL.
The fact is that we did not know if Steen and D'Agostini were going to be back, so we needed to get some help in. Turns out both are back, and that is fantastic news. There is no point in looking back and regretting a decision to burn a year of Schwartz's ELC just in case. Tough decision and we made the right one.
I think burning a year off of his ELC has been overblown by fans. I just don't think it is as big of an issue with management. Schwartz will now be even more prepared for next season, which will be a huge benefit.
If Shinnimin can put up 134, Rattie can be better. That goes for Stone as well. These are older guys that took advantage of size and development curve. Rattie is half a year behind Stone and much further behind Shinnimin. He has better vision than both and has an overpowered shot for juniors. This kid was always billed as a dangerous scorer, but dropped for whatever reason. He was around 2ppg for most of the year. I expect him to stay at the pace again with a better physical presence in his own end. Even if he doesn't hit 140 due to the likely participation in the WJCs, I still think he'll be around 130. All of this discussion is moot of course because junior numbers don't translate to the NHL. And yes...I knew if a bet was made it would have to compensate for the odds I'd be accepting lol.
