Political Discussion - "on-topic & unmoderated"Rated PG13, unmoderated but threads must stay on topic - that means you can flame each other all you want as long as it's legal
Graham James pleads guilty to molesting his players - UPDATE: Sentenced to two years
James is a serial child rapist, he should be in jail for life and never see the light of the sun again, how he's out on bail right now is beyond me, especially after he was already caught fleeing the country once. The fact that he got a pardon in 2007 is even more disgusting. As Fleury said, "only" 6 kids have come forward, but he's probably ***** endless others who remain quiet. Knowing the Canadian justice system he'll probably be given 2 years, and be out in like 6 months on good behavior. Glad to see him pleading guilty, but I have zero faith in the justice system to give him anything close to the life in prison he deserves.
James is a serial child rapist, he should be in jail for life and never see the light of the sun again, how he's out on bail right now is beyond me, especially after he was already caught fleeing the country once. The fact that he got a pardon in 2007 is even more disgusting. As Fleury said, "only" 6 kids have come forward, but he's probably ***** endless others who remain quiet. Knowing the Canadian justice system he'll probably be given 2 years, and be out in like 6 months on good behavior. Glad to see him pleading guilty, but I have zero faith in the justice system to give him anything close to the life in prison he deserves.
Only reason he plead guilty was because he got a plea deal and only pleaded guilty to the first two charges and dropped the third. Still probably wouldve fought those if not for the deal.
James is a serial child rapist, he should be in jail for life and never see the light of the sun again, how he's out on bail right now is beyond me, especially after he was already caught fleeing the country once. The fact that he got a pardon in 2007 is even more disgusting. As Fleury said, "only" 6 kids have come forward, but he's probably ***** endless others who remain quiet. Knowing the Canadian justice system he'll probably be given 2 years, and be out in like 6 months on good behavior. Glad to see him pleading guilty, but I have zero faith in the justice system to give him anything close to the life in prison he deserves.
The Canadian justice system is flawed in so many ways it's not even funny. The pardon he got in 2007 is something that is beyond my comprehension.
I would sentence just as severely as homicide in the case of rapists, because the victim's life will never be the same, ever.
If Guy Cloutier's case is any example, James will get a big fat 2 years, possibly 3 because he's a repeat offender...
I'll stop at that before I ruin my evening, this sort of matter really gets the best of me.
The Canadian justice system is flawed in so many ways it's not even funny. The pardon he got in 2007 is something that is beyond my comprehension.
I would sentence just as severely as homicide in the case of rapists, because the victim's life will never be the same, ever.
If Guy Cloutier's case is any example, James will get a big fat 2 years, possibly 3 because he's a repeat offender...
I'll stop at that before I ruin my evening, this sort of matter really gets the best of me.
When is the announcement for James' sentencing supposed to be? There's no mention of it in the article. I find it weird that the length of his sentencing wasn't included in the plea.
I personally believe that his charge should be just as severe as murder, as he was entrusted to nurture and teach, but he stole and destroyed lives. Life without parole at the least. There is no rehabilitating his sickness, if he never does it again, its only because he was already caught doing it and people are watching out for it again.
The families deserve justice, and as long as he has any hope of ever being a free man, those families didnt get justice.
I personally believe that his charge should be just as severe as murder, as he was entrusted to nurture and teach, but he stole and destroyed lives. Life without parole at the least. There is no rehabilitating his sickness, if he never does it again, its only because he was already caught doing it and people are watching out for it again.
The families deserve justice, and as long as he has any hope of ever being a free man, those families didnt get justice.
I agree. Personally, I think James himself should be impaled in the style of the barbarian hordes of old....it'd only be fitting.
**** was a capital crime here in NC until the past couple of generations.
Still should be as far as I'm concerned. It's not ruining or ending one life - it's passing a debilitating event onto another generation and having that multiply as each peed touches another kid.
Makes me want to vomit. Wouldn't be disappointed to see some vigilante justice served on James's head.
edit: I ****ing long for the days of To Catch a Predator.
In my mind, if you do anything remotely close to pedophillia and get caught, thats a life sentence right there. No excuse for that **** at all.
Blows my mind that the government is whining and *****ing about needing stiffer laws on marajauna but allow molesters and pedophiles to walk free on pardons or leave prison after 6 months for good behaviour.
Agreed. Think Fleury carries anywhere near as many demons with him if he isn't violated in adolescence by someone he's told to trust and look up to?
It's made more heartbreaking because it's one case of many (involving James alone) and it only came to light because Fleury had the support behind him and enough public questioning of his character to come forth with it. I feel worse for those whose names we'll never know and who will have to carry the burden in anonymity, no doubt partially blaming themselves for what a predator did to them.
How in the hell did he get a pardon before? This filth should never breathe free air again.
Pardons are different here from what you know in the US. They are pretty much automatic after a certain period of time.
It seems many people do not recognize that a Canadian pardon is not an erasure of the conviction nor does it imply forgiveness for the pardoned offence(s) - it simply changes how the records are kept by CPIC and federal police agencies.
Pardons in Canada have a limited effect. It does not erase the conviction. Also the record relating to sexual offences against children is available upon a criminal records check before a person can work with children.
Quote:
What is a pardon?
A pardon allows people who were convicted of a criminal offence, but have completed their sentence and demonstrated they are law-abiding citizens, to have their criminal record kept separate and apart from other criminal records. Under the Criminal Records Act ( CRA ), the National Parole Board (NPB) may issue, grant, deny, or revoke pardons for convictions under federal acts or regulations of Canada .
Quote:
What are the limitations of a pardon?
* A pardon does not erase the fact that a person was convicted of an offence.
* A pardon does not guarantee entry or visa privileges to another country.
* Courts and police services (other than the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP)) are under provincial and municipal legislation. This means that they do not have to keep records of convictions separate and apart from other criminal records.
* The CRA lists certain sexual offences. If a person was pardoned for such offences, his/her record will be kept separate and apart, but his/her name will be flagged in the CPIC computer system. This means a person will be asked to let employers see his/her record if this person wants to work with children or with groups that are vulnerable because of their age or disability. The flag is applied regardless of the date of conviction or the date a pardon was granted or issued.
* A sentence may have included various prohibition orders imposed under the Criminal Code, such as a driving or firearms prohibition order. A pardon will not cancel these prohibition orders.
Pardons in Canada are granted pretty much automatically upon the effluxion of time absent evidence that person has not been of good conduct (no arrests, convictions, etc during the statutory time period). As a matter of course the NPB sends a query to CPIC to make sure there have been no arrests or convictions and no outstanding investigations against the applicant.
Quote:
Who may apply for a pardon?
A person may apply for a pardon if he/she was convicted of an offence under a federal act or regulation of Canada . A person may apply even if he/she is not a Canadian citizen or a resident of Canada . A person may also apply if he/she was convicted in another country and transferred to Canada under the Transfer of Offenders Act.
When can a person apply for a pardon?
Before a person is eligible to apply for a pardon, he/she must have 1) completed all sentences and 2) waited a certain period from the completion of all sentences.
1. When is a sentence completed?
* When a person has paid all fines, surcharges, costs, restitution and compensation orders in full;
* When a person has served all of his/her time, including parole or statutory release; and
* When a person has satisfied his/her probation order.
2. What is the waiting period?
1. For convictions under the Criminal Code and other federal statutes:
* Three years for summary convictions; and
* Five years for indictable offences.
2. For convictions under the Transfer of Offenders Act:
* Five years for all convictions.
3. For convictions under the National Defence Act:
* Five years if the person was fined more than $2,000;
* Five years if the person was imprisoned more than six months;
* Five years if the person was dismissed from the service; and
* Three years for all other penalties.
... Can a pardon be denied?
Yes, for example, if the NPB finds that a person is not of good conduct. However, he/she may reapply after one year.
Can a pardon be revoked?
Yes. The NPB may revoke a pardon if:
* The person is later convicted of a summary offence under a federal act or regulation of Canada ;
* The NPB finds that the person is no longer of good conduct; or
* The NPB learns that a false or deceptive statement was made, or relevant information was concealed at the time of the application.
In the above-mentioned circumstances, the records of the pardoned offences will again be kept with the other conviction records.
Can a pardon cease to have effect?
Yes, if a person is subsequently convicted of:
* an indictable offence under a federal act or regulation of Canada ;
* an offence punishable either on indictable or summary conviction; and
* if the NPB is convinced by new information that the person was not eligible for a pardon at the time it was granted or issued.
In the above-mentioned circumstances, the records of the pardoned offences will again be kept with the other conviction records.
Board spokeswoman Caroline Douglas said the pardons process does not generally take into account the nature of the crime -- even those that the public finds particularly upsetting.
Only a small segment of offenders, including those convicted of murder or branded dangerous offenders, are barred from being pardoned.
"We cannot discriminate based on the crime committed," Douglas said. "Very few people are ineligible for a pardon. Everyone else is eligible no matter their crime. We have to follow the law."
Pardons were removed from the realm of political decision making for a reason and placed in the hands of a quasi-judicial tribunal to prevent political favours.
As noted above in the case of sexual and similar offences the conviction remains flagged in CPIC (Canadian Police Information Computer) if they are listed in the schedule to the CRA (Criminal Records Act). Here is a list of offences for which a person record remains flagged in CPIC despite the person being granted a pardon:
Quote:
SCHEDULE
(Subsections 6.3(2) and (9))
1. Offences under the following provisions of the Criminal Code:
(a) subsection 7(4.1) (sexual offence against a child by an act or omission outside Canada);
(B) section 151 (sexual interference with a person under 16);
(c) section 152 (invitation to a person under 16 to sexual touching);
(d) section 153 (sexual exploitation of a person 16 or more but under 18);
(e) section 153.1 (sexual exploitation of a person with a disability);
(f) section 155 (incest);
(g) section 159 (anal intercourse);
(h) subsection 160(3) (bestiality in the presence of a person under 16 or inciting a person under 16 to commit bestiality);
(i) paragraph 163(1)(a) (obscene materials);
(j) paragraph 163(2)(a) (obscene materials);
(k) section 163.1 (child pornography);
(l) section 168 (mailing obscene matter);
(m) section 170 (parent or guardian procuring sexual activity);
(n) section 171 (householder permitting sexual activity);
(o) section 172 (corrupting children);
(p) section 173 (indecent acts);
(q) subsection 212(2) (living on avails of prostitution of a person under 18);
(r) subsection 212(2.1) (living on avails of prostitution of a person under 18);
(s) subsection 212(4) (obtain, or attempt to obtain, sexual services of a person under 18);
(t) section 271 (sexual assault);
(u) subsection 272(1) and paragraph 272(2)(a) (sexual assault with firearm);
(v) subsection 272(1) and paragraph 272(2)(B) (sexual assault other than with firearm);
(w) section 273 (aggravated sexual assault);
(x) paragraph 273.3(1)(a) (removal of child under 16 from Canada for purposes of listed offences);
(y) paragraph 273.3(1)(B) (removal of child 16 or more but under 18 from Canada for purpose of listed offence);
(z) paragraph 273.3(1)(c) (removal of child under 18 from Canada for purposes of listed offences);
(z.1) section 280 (abduction of a person under 16);
(z.2) section 281 (abduction of a person under 14);
(z.3) paragraph 348(1)(a) with respect to breaking and entering a place with intent to commit in that place an indictable offence listed in this schedule;
(z.4) paragraph 348(1)(B) with respect to breaking and entering a place and committing in that place an indictable offence listed in this schedule;
(z.5) subsection 372(2) (indecent phone calls); and
(z.6) section 463 with respect to an attempt to commit an offence listed in this section or with respect to being an accessory after the fact to the commission of an offence listed in this schedule.
2. Offences under the following provisions of the Criminal Code, R.S.C. 1970, c. C-34, as that Act read before January 1988:
(a) subsection 146(1) (sexual intercourse with a female under 14);
(B) subsection 146(2) (sexual intercourse with a female 14 or more but under 16);
(c) section 151 (seduction of a female 16 or more but under 18);
(d) section 153 (sexual intercourse with stepdaughter, etc., or female employee);
(e) section 155 (buggery or bestiality);
(f) section 157 (gross indecency);
(g) section 166 (parent or guardian procuring defilement); and
(h) section 167 (householder permitting defilement).
3. Offences under the following provisions of the Criminal Code, R.S.C. 1970, c. C-34, as that Act read before January 1983:
(a) section 144 (****);
(B) section 145 (attempt to commit ****);
(c) section 149 (indecent assault on female);
(d) section 156 (indecent assault on male);
(e) section 245 (common assault); and
(f) subsection 246(1) (assault with intent to commit an indictable offence).
I don't think anyone is taking exception to a pardon.bc they think the "record will be erased". It's almost entirely bc its not life in prison and they can go free.
Edit - in MN we use chemical castration on repeat offenders
Im a huge fan of the punishment matching the crime. Put him in the jails honeymoon suite with a big black lifer named bubba who has no chance to ever get out and has resorted to ****** inmates to satisfy his sexual urges. Leave him in there for the rest of eternity.
When is the announcement for James' sentencing supposed to be? There's no mention of it in the article. I find it weird that the length of his sentencing wasn't included in the plea.
Feb 27 i believe
Edit: missed it by 5 days. Feb 22
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Last edited by King Woodballs: 12-07-2011 at 08:54 PM.
When is the announcement for James' sentencing supposed to be? There's no mention of it in the article. I find it weird that the length of his sentencing wasn't included in the plea.
It is noted in the linked article:
He is to be sentenced Feb. 22 and will have to appear in Winnipeg for that. There has been no deal struck on how he will be sentenced, but he remains on bail for now.
Graham James sentencing hearing begins today in a Winnipeg courtroom. He has pled guilty to molesting two players multiple times - one of them Theoren Fleury.
Fleury has filed a Victim Impact Statement and is asking that...
"James — who he called "a monster" — deserves a "lifetime removed from society."
"Do not show leniency to Graham James," he urged the justice system. "He certainly didn't show any to me or any of his other victims."
Sheldon Kennedy another victim is predicting that James will receive a conditional sentence as he was previously incarcerated for 3 1/2 years in 1997 after he pleaded guilty to sexually assaulting Kennedy, and another player an estimated 350 times over 10 years.
I agree. Personally, I think James himself should be impaled in the style of the barbarian hordes of old....it'd only be fitting.
yea these kids lived though Hell, what he did to them was pure torture. At one point he was taking care of a kid and kept playing with his 12 to make sure the kid was going to do what he wanted.
The publication ban was lifted on the name of the other player who was assaulted. It was Todd Holt - Fleury's cousin. Holt's life was completely destroyed by James.
Graham James apologized to Fleury, Holt, Gilhooly and other players and arents as well as the "Canadian hockey public" and to the institution of hockey while reading from a prepared statement.
The Crown argued that James should serve six years in prison for his crimes, which he committed while coaching Fleury and Holt in the 1980s and early '90s.
James's lawyer, Evan Roitenberg asked for a 12- to 18-month conditional sentence that would be served in the community, along with conditions that would include a curfew, monitoring and counselling.
In my mind, if you do anything remotely close to pedophillia and get caught, thats a life sentence right there. No excuse for that **** at all.
Blows my mind that the government is whining and *****ing about needing stiffer laws on marajauna but allow molesters and pedophiles to walk free on pardons or leave prison after 6 months for good behaviour.
Amen. Laws in NY are rougher on pedo's than Canada, but imo, not rough enough. I feel for certain people, like the 18 year old senior dating a 16 year old sophmore girl and the kid gets charged w statutory ****...but that's obviously a much different example. Adults destroying innocent children should rot in solitary til they take their last breath of filthy, feces-riddled air.
