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Former Jr Coach Graham James Sentenced to 2 Years - UPD: Crown Appeals - Post #85

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Old
03-21-2012, 01:13 AM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CallMeJerry View Post
Life for sexually harm someone under 15? What if a 19 year old girl has sex with a 14 year old boy?

Off topic but US-style "proposition" voting is insane. It's democracy gone crazy. I barf a little every time people use the James case and others to laud US justice system. Like it's safer down there because they're "tough on crime"?
What's your issue with the justice system down south? Are you telling me there's something wrong with chasing an unarmed kid and shooting him and later claim it was self-defense to avoid charges?

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Old
03-21-2012, 03:51 PM
  #77
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The Crown is considering an appeal of sentence and have 30 days to make a decision.
Manitoba’s Justice Department is reviewing a judge’s decision, and her two-year sentence given to Graham James on Tuesday, to assess whether there is any merit to an appeal.

Provincial Court Judge Catherine Carlson handed down her decision in packed Winnipeg courtroom and was almost immediately criticized across the country for being too lenient on the former junior hockey coach.
http://sports.nationalpost.com/2012/...ames-sentence/

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03-21-2012, 04:06 PM
  #78
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Canadian friend of mine got 5 years in a US prison for drug possession while he was in the states. Couldn't even do his time in a Canadian prison to be near his family and friends -- they sent him to texas. He had no prior criminal record. I'll tell you one thing, after exchanging letters with him monthly now for 4 years, I think he's far more likely to take part in criminal activity coming out of jail than he was going in. The experience has changed him. It's like a criminal training ground in there.

Meanwhile in Canada, a convicted sexual predator who preys on children -- the worst kind, gets a year per victim. I don't really know what to extrapolate from that, but I find it incredibly frustrating regardless, especially since my friend is a good guy.

That said I don't think James should be in prison anyway. He should be getting 5 years in one of those lockdown pedo-rehab facilities where he can actually get help for these issues. 2 years in a regular prison does absolutely nothing for him except make him bitter, and it does nothing for society and his future victims. He's a problem, and you deal with a problem to solve it. This is procrastination. The problem comes back in 2 years.


Last edited by Bougieman: 03-21-2012 at 04:15 PM.
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03-21-2012, 11:43 PM
  #79
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There seems to be a misapprehension of what the sentences historically have been for these sort of cases. Trial judges cannot ignore past sentences as Parliament has made clear in setting out sentencing principles for judges in the Criminal Code:
"A sentence should be similar to sentences imposed on similar offenders for similar offences committed in similar circumstances."
In this case due to the historical nature of the case and the concept of totality, the concept of a global sentence had to be considered by the judge on sentencing.

Judge Carlson says the court has to consider what sentence James would have received had his offences against all four victims been dealt with in 1997. She says if they were all dealt with together, a “total” sentence of five to six years would have been reasonable based on case law.
Now in her lengthy reasons released Tuesday Carlson had her reasons — chiefly, the principle of totality (which required her to take into account James’ earlier sentence and the fact that the current assaults dated from the same time period) and all the decisions by other judges that came before hers.

Common sense is not so constrained or constipated, and it is that which sometimes separates the law from public opinion.
http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/...or-the-course/

As this law professor points out the general public is not informed on length of sentences.
It’s not unusual for convicted sex offenders to receive sentences that seem far too lenient considering the pain and suffering endured by their victims, said University of British Columbia law professor Janine Benedet.

“I think [the public] has a misperception about what the standard sentence is for sexual assault — it’s actually quite low, compared to some other serious criminal offences in Canada,” she said.
...
“In a sexual assault case, it’s not uncommon to see sentences of quite a lot less than two years,” she said.

“If this case serves as a catalyst to opening debate about sentencing for sexual assault, I think that would be a good thing.”
...
Ms. Benedet likens the James sentencing to that of Maple Leaf Gardens equipment manager Gordon Stuckless, who was put away in 1988 for two years less a day after pleading guilty to 24 counts of indecent and sexual assault. One of his victims, Martin Kruze, killed himself four days after the sentencing.

The Ontario Court of Appeal strengthened Stuckless’ sentence to five years in 1998, Ms. Benedet said, “and people said even that was too low.”

These sentencings can appear callously light when one considers the damaging consequences victims endure, she said. But a judge must also consider the risk to public safety, level of remorse shown, rehabilitation and time already served when deciding on a sentence, she added.

“Sentencing is not supposed to be about vengeance, anger or revenge,” she said. “On the other hand, it is about public safety and about separating individuals who have shown a repeated pattern of behaviour that is extremely dangerous to vulnerable victims.”
http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/03...l-experts-say/

And in this case there was no evidence nor even founded allegations that James had re-offended since his release on his first convictions.

“This is not, as the court often sees, a case of a person re-offending after serving a sentence,” Judge Carlson said.

Greg Gilhooly has perhaps the best grasp of what is at issue her -, not only was he sexually abused by Graham James when he played hockey but he is also a lawyer:
Greg Gilhooly was another young hockey player sexually victimized by James. Charges involving Gilhooly were stayed as part of a plea bargain between James and the Crown.

“The building here is called the Law Courts Building, it’s not called the Hall of Justice,” Gilhooly, now a lawyer, said outside court. “Graham James was never going to get justice today. Graham James was going to get a legal result.

“At the same time, he is going to jail ... and that’s a good thing,” Gilhooly said.
http://www.torontosun.com/2012/03/20/james-sentencing

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Old
03-22-2012, 12:31 AM
  #80
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Real world experience is a must for todays Canadian judges.

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Old
03-22-2012, 01:54 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Keke Mortsons helmet View Post
Real world experience is a must for todays Canadian judges.
Judges generally have real world experience.

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03-22-2012, 03:31 PM
  #82
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It is often difficult for a judge wading through the morass of sometimes conflicting sentencing principles and the penalties prescribed in the Criminal Code to come up with a sentence. The Criminal Code quite frankly is a mess but that is on Parliament, not the judges. So it is unsurprising members of the public do not understand the process of crafting a sentence.
For most offences, the range of possible sentences is wide open. There is no minimum. And the maximums - typically two years, seven, 10, 14, or life - are often set absurdly high. A judge sentencing someone for breaking into a house can give him essentially nothing, or life in prison, or anything in between.

The (1987 report of the Canadian Sentencing Commission) also condemned the Criminal Code's incoherence. Both manslaughter and breaking into a house, for example, are punishable by up to life in prison. Both sexual assault with a weapon and possession of counterfeit money are punishable by up to 14 years in prison. I doubt there is anyone in the country who thinks these are comparable crimes that should be punished comparably. And yet that's what the law says. And there are countless more examples like them.

So how did that happen? Did Parliament really decide that manslaughter and break-and-enter are crimes of equal gravity? That possession of counterfeit money is as serious as sexual assault with a weapon? Of course not. Parliament doesn't review the Criminal Code to ensure its internal coherence. It just cranks out news laws - often in response to the latest headline - with little or no consideration of what's already there.

This isn't a new problem, as the Sentencing Commission noted in 1987. Parliament has been operating this way since the Criminal Code was created in 1892, which is why the Code was a big mess in 1987, and an even bigger mess today.

"The search for just sanctions (is) at best a lottery," the Alberta Court of Appeal declared in a powerful 2010 decision, "and at worst a myth."
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/se...#ixzz1prz7AJoQ

So place the blame where it belongs- not on the judges but on the knee jerk politicians with the crime du jour approach rather than any sort of coherent approach to penalties and sentencing.

BTW prior to sentencing Sheldon Kennedy predicted based on past cases that Graham James would not serve any further jail time for these latest convictions. And he would not have been wrong.
"What we're probably going to deal with tomorrow is a conditional sentence," Kennedy told the Senate committee studying Bill C-10, the Conservative government's massive crime bill.

"You know, Graham James is going to walk — again. That's not right."
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/kennedy-pre...6342--spt.html

It does not need to be this way but successive governments have ignored the recommendations in the 1987 report of the Canadian Sentencing Commission - a royal Commission of Inquiry with a mandate to explore the sentencing and parole systems and to make reform recommendations. The Sentencing Commission recommended sweeping changes.

First, wipe out all existing sentencing provisions. Next, state whether there will be a presumption of incarceration or not for each offence.

Finally, for each offence where there is a presumption of incarceration, create a relatively narrow "presumptive range" for sentence lengths.

These changes would ensure that similar cases would be treated similarly. But flexibility is also critical to ensure that unusual cases are not punished inappropriately. (This is the main reason why mandatory minimum sentences are a terrible idea.) So the commission recommended that judges be allowed to deviate from the presumptive range provided they explained why they were doing so. (The deviation and explanation could be appealed.)

The Sentencing Commission also called for the creation of a permanent commission whose job would be to help create the new sentencing guidelines, to collect sentencing data, and to work with the House of Commons to ensure sentencing practices remained rational and just.

The result would be a justice system that is transparent, coherent, predictable, and accountable - four qualities sorely lacking in the status quo.

Makes a lot of sense but it is not flashy headlines so do not expect such changes. Better for federal politicians to foam at the mouth and rage at judges when the solutions lie within their purview.

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03-22-2012, 10:43 PM
  #83
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Great post. Legal results and justice being conjoined seems a long way off.

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03-23-2012, 01:04 AM
  #84
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I was just wondering where everybody else was in the Swift Current organization the whole time this stuff was going on.


Last edited by Free Torts: 03-23-2012 at 01:31 AM.
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Old
04-12-2012, 08:39 PM
  #85
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Graham James child sexual assault sentence is being appealed.
http://www.globalwinnipeg.com/Graham...#ixzz1rsOMnafb

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04-12-2012, 08:43 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wetcoaster View Post
Graham James child sexual assault sentence is being appealed.


http://www.globalwinnipeg.com/Graham...#ixzz1rsOMnafb
Good!

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04-13-2012, 03:20 AM
  #87
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Here is the Notice of Appeal:
http://s3.documentcloud.org/document...mes-appeal.pdf

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04-13-2012, 03:30 AM
  #88
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Graham James then:


And now (Stony Mountain Institution mug shot in Stony Mountain, Man., on Thursday, March 22, 2012.

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04-13-2012, 04:05 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by nutbar View Post
I was just wondering where everybody else was in the Swift Current organization the whole time this stuff was going on.
I'm from Swift, and it's a not-so-secret secret that there were numerous individuals in the organization that knew what was going on, but didn't take action because we had a winning team. Not sure if any action was later taken against these people that allegedly knew what was going on, or if this information didn't come out until these people were gone. I have no proof of this but it's just what's widely accepted as the ugly truth in Swift Current -- that in the eyes of a select few in the know, winning a Memorial Cup was more important than stopping what James was doing.

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04-13-2012, 11:00 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by the beat View Post
I'm from Swift, and it's a not-so-secret secret that there were numerous individuals in the organization that knew what was going on, but didn't take action because we had a winning team. Not sure if any action was later taken against these people that allegedly knew what was going on, or if this information didn't come out until these people were gone. I have no proof of this but it's just what's widely accepted as the ugly truth in Swift Current -- that in the eyes of a select few in the know, winning a Memorial Cup was more important than stopping what James was doing.
Sounds eerily like Penn State.

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04-13-2012, 12:27 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by the beat View Post
I'm from Swift, and it's a not-so-secret secret that there were numerous individuals in the organization that knew what was going on, but didn't take action because we had a winning team. Not sure if any action was later taken against these people that allegedly knew what was going on, or if this information didn't come out until these people were gone. I have no proof of this but it's just what's widely accepted as the ugly truth in Swift Current -- that in the eyes of a select few in the know, winning a Memorial Cup was more important than stopping what James was doing.
If that is true these people should be sought out, and publicly challenged on this. Absolutely disgusting if this was clearly a case of rot in the entire organization.

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04-13-2012, 03:21 PM
  #92
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Sounds eerily like Penn State.
It's what I thought, too. Who the **** cares about winning when you know that there are children being sodomized in the team? How can people sleep knowing that? Disgusting.

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02-15-2013, 06:52 PM
  #93
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The Manitoba Court of Appeal has increased James sentence from two year to five on the appeal by the Crown.
http://www.theprovince.com/news/nati...#ixzz2KzbRuXoB

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02-15-2013, 06:57 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Wetcoaster View Post
The Manitoba Court of Appeal has increased James sentence from two year to five on the appeal by the Crown.
http://www.theprovince.com/news/nati...#ixzz2KzbRuXoB
Three meals a day and sex with other men.

He's probably not complaining.

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02-15-2013, 07:01 PM
  #95
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The Manitoba Court of Appeal has increased James sentence from two year to five on the appeal by the Crown.
http://www.theprovince.com/news/nati...#ixzz2KzbRuXoB
Not enough , but better than nothing.

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Old
02-17-2013, 05:03 PM
  #96
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My granddad would have sentenced him to a longer sentence (at least I would hope), he put away clifford olsen for good, though that was a more extreme criminal case. That being said, any sentence will be criticized as you cannot please everyone. Doubly so in a case like this.

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