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If you were GOD which team would u eliminate?

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Old
09-28-2004, 08:43 PM
  #276
I in the Eye
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theBob
Ive made about a dozen trips to different parts of Florida as well and Id guess that a good 1 in 10 residents there remember what their name is
hehe...

It is my impression that the majority of the US consider Florida to be flaky... It is my impression that the majority of the US consider hockey to be flaky...

If assuming that flaky people like flaky things, hockey should be able to thrive in Florida - if given time...

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09-28-2004, 08:48 PM
  #277
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Originally Posted by Hootchie Cootchie



If you're trying to deny Alberta isn't a hockey-mad area, don't waste your breath. Per-capita more NHL players come out of Edmonton & area than anywhere else on the planet.

Alberta is a thriving province and Edmonton has the 2nd most diverse economy in Canada. Calgary is the fastest growing city in Canada and Edmonton is not far behind. The issue here isn't that Edm/Cgy have 'worse economies', the fact is the disparity between the American and Canadian dollars cripples them somewhat.

Calgary has the 2nd most head offices in Canada, and I'm not exactly educated on the Flames situation (maybe a Flames fan can come in here and verify this) but thats got to help the team. Edmonton doesn't have that kind of coporate support, we rely on Joe fan, and they profited this year.

The owners of the two teams are tired of losing money due to the fact that over 70% of their revenues are paying salaries. The Cdn $ doesn't help either, and theres nothing they can do about that. In a business an owner is supposed to profit, and it isn't because of bad business decisions. Does this mean that the markets are no longer viable? Not at all. Hockey may be a business, but to take away so much tradition would cheapen the product substantially.

But what the Oilers do have is a strong, deep-rooted tradition and fanatical fan support; that is unarguable. And that is why it is a valid market.

I'm not arguing that Alberta isnt hockey crazy. Believe me from watching the shots of the "red mile" more than proves it. All the players coming from Alberta is also showing its a very viable hockey market. Maybe I didnt make my point clear enough. I was arguing from an economic side, that it isnt as profitable as say a team in Miami or in Anaheim. When these teams have a winning product the seats are filled. Its not easy to build a fanbase when the team is a loser. As passionate as some people here in the US are about baseball, losing teams like the Devil Rays are hardpressed to get even 5,000 some nights. And believe me there are a ton of baseball people around the Bay area. It takes time to develop a fan base and some people arent giving some of these areas even 5 years to develop one. When there is a winning team, these places can be just as passionate about hockey. I know even with a losing product in Tampa I was just as passionate about hockey as people in canada are. It would be a big mistake to contract Edmonton or Calgary. It would also be a mistake to contract any team that hasnt had time to build a fanbase. Threads like this just bug me.

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Old
09-28-2004, 08:49 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by ObeySteve
Yeah, because most of the places where fans demand quality hockey players would be gone.
You're right. In Buffalo, we have always been very happy with cast offs, over-agers, and other non-quality types...

In fact, as soon as any of our players start showing any hints of being quality players, we demand that the owners trade them away...



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09-28-2004, 08:55 PM
  #279
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Yeah me too hockeyfan2 but there are alot of Canadian (like me) who think Tampa, Nashville, etc, deserve their teams. There are also your fellow American fans calling for southern teams contraction too, it's not just Canadian fans.

Just remember having two teams taken from us really upsets us and some will blame southern expansion when they should blame the owners/Bettman; not me; I was sickened when the Nords and Jets left, but I don't blame south teams for that.

Hockey is our sustenance in Canada, like it is for US hockey fans too. I'm already going through withdrawals knowing there won't be a season.


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Old
09-28-2004, 09:02 PM
  #280
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Originally Posted by jacketracket
Good point.

I also think Columbus gets mentioned alot simply because the team hasn't really been anything to write home about, yet. Had the CBJ made any kind of playoff push, even if only into January, I doubt many would suggest contracting the Jackets. Unfortunately, some people do nothing more than look at the league standings before pointing at Columbus.

17,500 to watch a last-place team, night-in and night-out. Nationwide is going to explode when the CBJ make the playoffs.
Couldn't agree more.

I think the league is doing exactly what it had hoped for when they granted Columbus an NHL franchise - they are growing the sport in a new market. With a revitalized downtown, the only pro game in town, a great arena, new rinks opening, more high school teams, and a lot of new fans who never gave hockey a chance - the game is really starting to take off.

Now with a couple budding superstars in Nash and Zherdev and hopefully a team on the rise - the future is very bright for the game in this town. But like other new markets - we've just got to weather this lockout

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09-28-2004, 09:12 PM
  #281
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Originally Posted by mercury
I also don't think that contraction will cure the financial ills of the NHL, nor will it make the game more entertaining. In retrospect, the league did overexpand in the '90s, but we don't remember how POPULAR hockey was in the U.S. from the mid-80s to about the late-90s. In terms of contraction, I don't think I would want to rob any NHL fan of their team. I would consider moving Carolina and Florida to markets in which they had a better chance to do well. Carolina Hurricanes become Kansas City Cyclones (actually, we should play a game of name the franchise; it's always fun), and Winnipeg gets back the Panthers, who would have to move over 3000 miles. They could rename them the Jets if they wanted, keep the Panthers name, or come up with something else entirely. Suggestions?

PistonBrokes

Players are p***ed at leaving sunny Florida
Winnipeg goes broke again.

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09-28-2004, 09:41 PM
  #282
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I in the Eye
hehe...

It is my impression that the majority of the US consider Florida to be flaky... It is my impression that the majority of the US consider hockey to be flaky...

If assuming that flaky people like flaky things, hockey should be able to thrive in Florida - if given time...


We're not "flaky"! People who think we're "flaky" have read one too many Carl Hiaasen books or something. There are MUCH weirder places in the U.S. than Florida, trust me.

As for the comment that you were responding to...well, it wasn't worth responding to, really.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hootchie Cootchie
Hockey is our sustenance in Canada, like it is for US hockey fans too. I'm already going through withdrawals knowing there won't be a season.
The worst part for Tampa fans is 1-We were all looking forward to opening night to see our banner(s) raised and 2-With the way the Bucs are playing, sports fans are definitely looking to spend their ticket money elsewhere. Everything is perfectly positioned for the Bolts this season, everything except actually HAVING a season. Every announcement of a player going overseas to play just depresses me more and more.

Oh, and Hockeyfan02, please clean out your PMs, thanks! (excuse the personal plea here, and no he's not "in trouble")

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Old
09-28-2004, 09:47 PM
  #283
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People overrate the whole "Stanley is getting a tan thing." After all, it is in NORHTHERN Florida. Thats like saying the NBA championship is going to beautiful California when Sacramento wins it. Eww.

I should talk though, I use to live in northern BC, bah.

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Old
09-28-2004, 09:47 PM
  #284
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sotnos
The worst part for Tampa fans is 1-We were all looking forward to opening night to see our banner(s) raised and 2-With the way the Bucs are playing, sports fans are definitely looking to spend their ticket money elsewhere. Everything is perfectly positioned for the Bolts this season, everything except actually HAVING a season. Every announcement of a player going overseas to play just depresses me more and more.
That is a shame, indeed.

It hadn't occurred to me that Tampa fans would miss out on the banner-raising ceremony. Hopefully, in January....

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Old
09-28-2004, 09:53 PM
  #285
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Originally Posted by Sotnos
The worst part for Tampa fans is 1-We were all looking forward to opening night to see our banner(s) raised and 2-With the way the Bucs are playing, sports fans are definitely looking to spend their ticket money elsewhere. Everything is perfectly positioned for the Bolts this season, everything except actually HAVING a season. Every announcement of a player going overseas to play just depresses me more and more.

Oh, and Hockeyfan02, please clean out your PMs, thanks! (excuse the personal plea here, and no he's not "in trouble")
Gimme a break man, you get to go through another year of being called the defending Cup champions. Thats the next best thing to winning it back to back. When the Canucks win the Cup, it will be the only time I wouldnt care about a lockout.

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Old
09-28-2004, 09:57 PM
  #286
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If you were God, wouldn't you rather help all the teams out instead of contracting them?

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Old
09-28-2004, 10:07 PM
  #287
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Originally Posted by Kravitch
Gimme a break man, you get to go through another year of being called the defending Cup champions. Thats the next best thing to winning it back to back. When the Canucks win the Cup, it will be the only time I wouldnt care about a lockout.
True, but because they're the only good team in Tampa, they'd be poised to attract lots of fans. Now this golden opportunity will likely go to waste. With their luck, the Bucs will go to the Super Bowl when the NHL resumes play.

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Old
09-28-2004, 10:35 PM
  #288
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Originally Posted by Sotnos
Oh, and Hockeyfan02, please clean out your PMs, thanks! (excuse the personal plea here, and no he's not "in trouble")
Done. And the defending stanley cup champs for another year isnt that great. Well of course it is, but I'd rather see this team raise its banners than sit here and wait for hockey. The year these guys have had with all the awards going along with the cup and the performances in the world cup, things have never been better for this franchise and now this lockout. Its a momentum killer.

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Old
09-28-2004, 11:21 PM
  #289
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I just hate to see these huge myths that exist about FL in general. Its so funny how Canadians all say that FL has no hockey fans, yet every *** winter all I see is damn Canadians down here. If you love your country and hockey so damn much, stay up there during the winter. My favorite T-shirt in the winter says "Why do they call it tourist season if we can't shoot the Canadians??" :lol

But really, the people that say there shouldn't be 2 teams in FL don't understand that there really is a significant difference between Tampa and south FL where the Panthers are located. Not to mention that the 2 cities are 183 miles apart on 2 different sides of the state (farther apart than Edmonton & Calgary). But the south FL area really is a melting pot of people from all over the world. And there's quite a bit of people that move from the Northeast (specifically from New York and Massachusetts) and Michigan down to FL. There's even a decent amount of Russians in the area as well. My family is from the Long Island area, my best friends are all from Boston, and my boss is from Michigan. The reason I bring this up is because all these transplanted people still support their old teams...the Red Wings or Bruins or Rangers or whoever else but the Panthers. There are hockey fans in the area but they only go to games when their team in playing. Its just a fallacy that the south FL area lacks hockey fans and that broad statement is being used as justification to contract them.

And FL's attendance hasn't really decreased that much since its inception. Their first building was small in capacity (less than 15,000) but had such an unbelievable atmosphere. Their new building is a monstrocity that has crappy atmosphere inside and the reasoning to move to it is because of the luxury box money the team was losing in the old place. I can't tell you how many times I've heard Panther fans wish they could've picked up the Miami Arena and move it to the location (in Sunrise) of the new building instead. Still, the average attendance has pretty consistently been in the 15,000 area every yr (with a few better yrs with Pavel & a few lesser yrs after he left). If they were in their old building, they would've sold out a lot of games the last few yrs.

All that said, I have suggested that FL be a possibility for relocation (not contraction) to Panther fans on this board. But so could about 5 teams in the league could be possibilities for relocation too. But just remember what happened when baseball tried to contract a FL team (the Marlins)...the next season they won the World Series. So every team you can name here as a potential team to contract, could be the next team to win the Stanley Cup. Contraction doesn't solve any problems...just shifts the problems to the remaining teams.

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Old
09-29-2004, 02:14 AM
  #290
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Originally Posted by RichPanther
I just hate to see these huge myths that exist about FL in general. Its so funny how Canadians all say that FL has no hockey fans, yet every *** winter all I see is damn Canadians down here. If you love your country and hockey so damn much, stay up there during the winter. My favorite T-shirt in the winter says "Why do they call it tourist season if we can't shoot the Canadians??" :lol
ALL Canadians? Thats your favorite t-shirt? What's your second favorite, "Minorities suck"? "Biggots rule!"?

I've never been to Florida, and I'm not interested in going, I'm happy in Canada, where I can play hockey on a pond in January. The crisp cold visible air from my mouth, the warm hot chocolate between periods, hearing the howing of wolves in the boonies as the sun goes down and our game concludes as we head indoors to a warm fire. I prefer that over swimsuits and Long Island iced teas. I wouldn't have it any other way.

You don't happen to be from the tampabaylightning.com forum do you?


Last edited by Kravitch: 09-29-2004 at 02:23 AM.
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Old
09-29-2004, 04:14 AM
  #291
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Originally Posted by 19bruins19
If you were God, wouldn't you rather help all the teams out instead of contracting them?
Nope. I'd be a vengeful Old Testament kind of god. I wouldn't just contract them, I'd destroy their stadiums with fire and brimstone and turn their GM into a pillar of salt!!

MWAA HAA HAA HAA HAA!!!

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09-29-2004, 10:08 AM
  #292
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Originally Posted by Kravitch
People overrate the whole "Stanley is getting a tan thing." After all, it is in NORHTHERN Florida. Thats like saying the NBA championship is going to beautiful California when Sacramento wins it. Eww.
Actually, if you'd look at a map, you'd see it's in CENTRAL Florida. It is semi-tropical here and does not snow. There are lots of places that look like the "picture postcard Florida" that people expect. It is quite nice, even if you don't think so.

Quote:
You don't happen to be from the tampabaylightning.com forum do you?
I kinda doubt it, since his name is RichPANTHER.

Quote:
I've never been to Florida, and I'm not interested in going
That's very obvious. Plus actually coming here might make you lose some of your preconceived notions that we're all stupid bigots.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichPanther
But the south FL area really is a melting pot of people from all over the world.
Rich, you say the two areas are different, but there are a ton of transplants here also. I can count on one hand the number of people I know over the age of 20 who were actually born here.

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09-29-2004, 11:00 AM
  #293
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With their luck, the Bucs will go to the Super Bowl when the NHL resumes play.

Don't count on that. :lol

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09-29-2004, 11:16 AM
  #294
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Sotnos, how is the monir hockey growing in Florida? 'Getting them hooked young' is the key to building a good, loyal fanbase and I know that in LA their youth hockey teams are making huge strides (a AAA Midget team from LA either one or came runner up in the Macs a couple years back).

And do any of you know if the teams are helping devellop the growth of minor hockey?

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09-29-2004, 11:58 AM
  #295
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Originally Posted by Sotnos


We're not "flaky"! People who think we're "flaky" have read one too many Carl Hiaasen books or something. There are MUCH weirder places in the U.S. than Florida, trust me.

As for the comment that you were responding to...well, it wasn't worth responding to, really.
I was being sarcastic with my theory... but I do like Florida as a hockey market.

You can't just plant a new tree and expect fruit right away... Give it time to grow...

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09-29-2004, 12:57 PM
  #296
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kravitch
ALL Canadians? Thats your favorite t-shirt? What's your second favorite, "Minorities suck"? "Biggots rule!"?

I've never been to Florida, and I'm not interested in going, I'm happy in Canada, where I can play hockey on a pond in January. The crisp cold visible air from my mouth, the warm hot chocolate between periods, hearing the howing of wolves in the boonies as the sun goes down and our game concludes as we head indoors to a warm fire. I prefer that over swimsuits and Long Island iced teas. I wouldn't have it any other way.

You don't happen to be from the tampabaylightning.com forum do you?
Did I say ALL Canadians?? No I didn't...I obviously was talking about Canadian tourists (thus the tourist season part of it). And jeez its just a joke...I have some friends that moved down here from Canada and they laugh at the shirt (one is a Leaf fan the other is a Habs fan). Let me put it in perspective for you...imagine that every January, thousands of Floridians take over that pond you love playing hockey on and drink all your hot chocolate and take all the spots near that warm fire. Wouldn't you be a bit pissed if that happens yr after yr after yr because then you couldn't have it your way.

But if you've never been to FL and I'm sure a few people here that have suggested one of the FL teams contracted haven't either, then how can you comment about what the situation there at all?? I don't go around commenting on the Canadian economy or that a Canadian city like Winnipeg won't be able to support a hockey team there again. Why? Because I've never been to Canada or Winnipeg and think its impossible to know exactly what situation is going on there with first hand knowledge. I guess you live by the credo that ignorance is bliss.

And no I'm not a Lightning fan nor have I ever been to those forums. Plus I wasn't talking about Tampa that much but to say that the area's are slightly different. How you got that I would be a Tampa fan is beyond me. And what I meant Sotnos was that there is also a more Latin/worldly influence from the influx from Cuba and Caribbean islands in the southern part of the state. I actually think there may be more Northerners that transplant to the Tampa area than previously did to south FL. I was just trying to point out that people suggest that either location doesn't have hockey fans but in reality there are plenty of them in both places. The differences between the 2 places is in their allegiances to their home town teams. You put a Panther fan in the same room with a Lightning fan and I don't think 2 people exit the room 8 out of 10 times. Its a rivalry that the league should have attempted to promote even when both teams were still struggling. Eventually, it could be those 2 teams that have the best, hard fought games when FL turns the corner.

And for clarification, my nickname is a tribute to 2 teams actually...what the Panthers hockey team used to be (a hard working expansion team) and also the Carolina Panthers football team. You see I lived in NC for 3 yrs (including the Canes cup run) so I can comment about at least 2 of these areas that people suggest can't support hockey. Its really quite simple though...when the teams are winning, the fans will support them. When the teams aren't winning, that's when the questions come in. It really is unfortunate that this lockout is happening now because I believe that Tampa's success would even get more fans interested in the Panthers too. Both places would actually benefit from the other's successes in terms of fan support.

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Old
09-29-2004, 12:59 PM
  #297
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Did I say ALL Canadians?? No I didn't...
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichPanther
Its so funny how Canadians all say
haha, yes, you did!

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Old
09-29-2004, 02:45 PM
  #298
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If you were God, wouldn't you rather help all the teams out instead of contracting them?
You never read the Old Testament, did you?

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09-29-2004, 03:04 PM
  #299
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You never read the Old Testament, did you?
They all drowned, lousy way to go.

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09-30-2004, 06:23 PM
  #300
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id get rid of everyone except 16 teams:

montreal toronto ottawa boston

philly devs rangers islanders

kings oilers flames canucks

hawks wings blues wild

then i would have each 4 team division play each other 8x each...and other divisions 4x each = 72 game schedule...

and no more fighting restrictions that means out goes that 3rd man in a fight rule...

game on!

ps...for those lames who think the avs stars etc are going to support nhl hockey with a losing team...i say to you this: remember the colorado rockies...run out of denver for not winning

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