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If you were GOD which team would u eliminate?

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Old
09-22-2004, 06:05 PM
  #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
What about the Oilames?
I rest my case.

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Old
09-22-2004, 06:08 PM
  #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kravitch
Considering that the MLB may put a team in Virginia, I say anything is possible.

It would be in Virginia, but it would be Washington, DC's team. Washington is practically IN Virginia.

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Old
09-22-2004, 09:14 PM
  #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sotnos

I agree with you on that (no disrespect to those fans), these were totally cash grabs to keep the other teams afloat for a while with those expansion fees, my own favorite team included. I read somewhere (can't remember where at the moment) that the only reason the current CBA was extended in '99 was so the last expansion would go through and more expansion money would be put in the pot.

At this point however, we have 30 teams, and those same people whose teams were part of this cash grab need to realize that it's the responsibility of ALL to help those teams succeed. You can't just contract them with a "hey, thanks for playing and thanks for helping me make my payroll a few years ago, see ya".

Great post, IMO.

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09-22-2004, 09:27 PM
  #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roughneck
I want to know what everybodys problem with Nashvill is as well.
I agree.

I'm not an advocate of ANY contraction, but I really think Nashville is on the move. That playoff atmosphere was electric (catfish on the ice! ).

With the hard-working team they've built, the fans will be there.

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Old
09-22-2004, 09:31 PM
  #130
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#1. Tampa Bay
#2. Anaheim
#3. Dallas

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Old
09-22-2004, 09:47 PM
  #131
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NJ or NYI (one) though the island has dedicated fans so prolly NJ
Island has dedicated fans? You mean the team with a 15,254 average attendence over 5 years? The Isles? The team with the 12,812 attendence over 5 years?


And who the hell wants to eliminate Dallas? One of the single best franchises in the NHL.

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Old
09-22-2004, 11:09 PM
  #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rancid
frankly there are teams you just can't get rid of.....
Montreal
Toronto
NYR
Detroit
Chicago
Boston

There's too much history.

Other teams that shouldn't be removed
Minnesota (Dedicated fans)
Edmonton, Calgary, Ottawa, Vancouver (dedicated fans)


Teams they should add....
Winnepeg, Atlantic Provinces squad, Maybe a team from Maine....

To get rid of....

Doubles in states....
LA or Anaheim
FLA or TB
NJ or NYI (one) though the island has dedicated fans so prolly NJ


Southern Teams w/ no fan base

Nashville, Columbus, Maybe even Atlanta....

Honestly...who watches hockey in Texas..bye bye Dallas.....
Last I checked, Columbus is NOT in the South, and the fans there are pretty decent, plus they have some good young players that will bring in even more fans. I agree with you on about everything else....

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Old
09-22-2004, 11:29 PM
  #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DownFromNJ
Island has dedicated fans? You mean the team with a 15,254 average attendence over 5 years? The Isles? The team with the 12,812 attendence over 5 years?


And who the hell wants to eliminate Dallas? One of the single best franchises in the NHL.
The islanders fans that they do have are pretty dedicated.... It's hard to say if one of NJ or the NYI. The NY area is so cluttered. and b4 w/ hartford.

Dallas is a rich awesome team but a good % of their fans don't even live in Dallas.




as for Columbus.. well they are in Ohio which isn't quite south but do the have fan bases even close to as comparable to Minnesota or MTL.

Two funny teams would be a team from Charlottetown and one from Rhode Island... Attendance would be 5000

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Old
09-23-2004, 01:01 AM
  #134
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Wouldn't contract any teams, but would move

Phoenix back to where it started - Winnipeg. Regardless of what you all think, there were reasons why the attendence sucked the last few years the Jets were here. The #1 reason as to why? The owner said he would have kept the Jets in Winnipeg if the citizens raised a certain amount of money (I don't remember what that figure was), the citizens raised this amount and the pucker still moved the franchise. #2 Winnipeg desperately needed a new arena, owner wouldn't build one. The Winnipeg Arena was falling apart back 10 years ago and yet now it's the Manitoba Moose that get the new arena? Why do you think Jets fans didn't show up? They got shafted. Winnipeg would be a very successful franchise, if the CBA allows it.

Anaheim - Portland. The Northwestern part of the US needs an NHL team. I would have suggested Seattle, but they have the Seahawks and the Mariners.

Carolina - Hamilton. IMO it would be better to put a franchise north of the horseshoe belt of Toronto, Hamilton, and my god I can't remember the other city, but there just isn't a big enough city in the western part of Ontario. Only way Hamilton would get a franchise is if they get a new arena.

Florida - Quebec City. The province of Quebec needs two NHL cities moreso than the state of Florida. Nordiques fans won't cheer for the Habs, and think of the rivalry that will have started again?

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Old
09-23-2004, 01:07 AM
  #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MooseHunter
Phoenix back to where it started - Winnipeg. Regardless of what you all think, there were reasons why the attendence sucked the last few years the Jets were here. The #1 reason as to why? The owner said he would have kept the Jets in Winnipeg if the citizens raised a certain amount of money (I don't remember what that figure was), the citizens raised this amount and the pucker still moved the franchise. #2 Winnipeg desperately needed a new arena, owner wouldn't build one. The Winnipeg Arena was falling apart back 10 years ago and yet now it's the Manitoba Moose that get the new arena? Why do you think Jets fans didn't show up? They got shafted. Winnipeg would be a very successful franchise, if the CBA allows it.
I heard that the cheaper seats in the arena were dreadful, thats why nobody ever bought tickets there.

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Old
09-23-2004, 01:16 AM
  #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kravitch
I heard that the cheaper seats in the arena were dreadful, thats why nobody ever bought tickets there.
They were and still are horrible! If I go to Moose games, I buy the centre ice tickets in the lower deck. It's because they didn't build a new arena when the Jets went into the NHL, and at that time Winnipeg Arena was like 50 years old to begin with. They had to raise the roof to get a decent amount more of seats in there, and it's just retarded. I had to sit up in the upper deck for the Metallica concert, and I couldn't imagine watching a hockey game up there. The players would look like ants.

The city of Winnipeg would support an NHL team if they don't have idiots running it. The current mayor of Winnipeg is the CEO of the local baseball team, and before baseball never worked in the city before (two prior attempts at the same league franchise and it failed), and the Canwest Global Park had to add seats (albeit not many, but still) to accomadate more fans. It's cheaper then going to see the Moose play and it's cheaper than going to see the Blue Bombers play. Franchises do work in this city, we just want a team that is run right. We want a team that has a chance of winning, and we will support it. Hell there were fans chanting "GO JETS GO" at the exhibition game between Vancouver and Minnesota, it truly shows how much this team misses their Jets.

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Old
09-23-2004, 03:15 AM
  #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rancid
as for Columbus.. well they are in Ohio which isn't quite south but do the have fan bases even close to as comparable to Minnesota or MTL.
I'll do your research for you, since you've apparently done little more than a cursory check of the final standings on the ice before declaring Columbus to be a bad market.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/attendance?year=2002

Columbus' attendance, over the four years they've been in the league, and the corresponding percentage of capacity---keep in mind that any attendance over a sell-out (18,136) is not noted in the figures.

2000-01...........17,457........96.3%
2001-02...........18,136.......100.0%
2002-03...........17,744........97.8%
2003-04...........17,339........95.6%

Columbus continues to sell out 2 of every 3 games played at Nationwide Arena (again, any attendance in excess of official sell-out capacity of 18,136 isn't noted).

This for a team that has finished at the bottom of the league over the last 4 years.

Columbus' season-ticket renewal rate was over 95% for the 2004-05 season, last I heard (in June). This figure was once again near tops in the league.

Columbus is one of a handful of teams to have shown a profit over each of the last 4 years.

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Old
09-23-2004, 04:23 AM
  #138
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If I were God, I would be concerned to see Hockey fans of all teams scrambling for salvation. It's the eternal cycle of those in traditional markets saying that the last teams in should be the first teams out; and expansion team fans retaliating like for like.

Personally, I wouldn't want to contract a team. Nearly everyone on this board loves to see NHL hockey, they love there team and don't want to see them leave. I don't think anyone should ever have to go through the possibility that there team is done. There are knowlegable and nice fans from every team on this board (even the leafs), so having seen interesting opinions from them I find it hard to nominate anyone for contraction.

However, I'll contract Gary and Bob.

Can't we all be friends?

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Old
09-23-2004, 04:32 AM
  #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spezza
If I were God, I would be concerned to see Hockey fans of all teams scrambling for salvation. It's the eternal cycle of those in traditional markets saying that the last teams in should be the first teams out; and expansion team fans retaliating like for like.

Personally, I wouldn't want to contract a team. Nearly everyone on this board loves to see NHL hockey, they love there team and don't want to see them leave. I don't think anyone should ever have to go through the possibility that there team is done. There are knowlegable and nice fans from every team on this board (even the leafs), so having seen interesting opinions from them I find it hard to nominate anyone for contraction.

However, I'll contract Gary and Bob.

Can't we all be friends?
Never!! ()

Good post, IMO.

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Old
09-23-2004, 06:34 AM
  #140
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I find some of these contraction justifications laughable..


Team revenues for 02-03, in US millions:



1 113 NYR
2 108 Dallas
3 105 Toronto
4 101 Philly
5 89 Detroit
6 88 Colorado
7 84 Boston
8 79 Minnesota
9 78 Los Angeles
10 74 Chicago
11 73 New Jersey
12 71 Montreal
13 67 St. Louis
14 66 Columbus
15 66 Vancouver
16 65 San Jose
17 65 Tampa
18 62 Washington
19 59 Ottawa
20 59 Anaheim
21 57 Pittsburgh
22 57 Florida
23 57 Atlanta
24 57 Carolina
25 56 NYI
26 51 Calgary
27 50 Buffalo
28 48 Edmonton
29 46 Nashville
30 43 Phoenix

If you were going to contract a Franchise, you'd contract Edmonton, Buffalo, Calgary, or the Isles. All have been around forever and are failed franchises.

Move a franchise to Quebec, Hamiltion, Winnepeg? No way! You'd kill the NHL. When Montreal makes less than New Jersey, you know you have a problem with the Canadian dollar. Those cities would result in more Calgaries and Edmontons. Bottom feeders.

Contract Dallas? The 2nd best Franchise in the country.

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Old
09-23-2004, 08:22 AM
  #141
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I find it funny a NYR fan talking about contraction.

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Old
09-23-2004, 08:32 AM
  #142
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You know if i was GOD, the NHL wouldn't be a huge concern. And if GOD did care he wouldn't eliminate any teams, he would make sure all 30 teams were successful.

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Old
09-23-2004, 09:04 AM
  #143
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The only franchise I scratch my head at is Carolina. That was such an off-the-wall place to put a NHL team. Does it deserve to be moved or contracted? Tough to say.

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Old
09-23-2004, 09:37 AM
  #144
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DownFromNJ, please learn how to spell Winnipeg, it really is insulting. It's not Winnepeg, it's Winnipeg.

Winnipeg was a fine franchise until the WHA merged with the NHL, and it has the fan base. With a new CBA, franchises in Hamilton, Winnipeg and Quebec would work. With much lower salaries, profit sharing, and a league that isn't drowning in debit, it will work. You may not know the city of Winnipeg, but I sure as hell do, and we got shafted by the Jets last owner and we got shafted by the league. I'm not even a Jets fan to begin with, but this city misses that team and they deserve it a whole flipping lot more than half the cities in the United States. Half the small prairie hick towns (don't mean to offend anyone) deserve a team more than Phoenix, Carolina, or where ever the heck the Panthers play.

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Old
09-23-2004, 09:40 AM
  #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spezza
If I were God, I would be concerned to see Hockey fans of all teams scrambling for salvation. It's the eternal cycle of those in traditional markets saying that the last teams in should be the first teams out; and expansion team fans retaliating like for like.

Personally, I wouldn't want to contract a team. Nearly everyone on this board loves to see NHL hockey, they love there team and don't want to see them leave. I don't think anyone should ever have to go through the possibility that there team is done. There are knowlegable and nice fans from every team on this board (even the leafs), so having seen interesting opinions from them I find it hard to nominate anyone for contraction.

However, I'll contract Gary and Bob.

Can't we all be friends?

How the heck do you think people in Winnipeg feel? We got shafted out of a team when Florida has two? How the hell is that fair? Oh right, the league only now says it won't let any other Canadian team leave Canada, well thanks Bettman. Only Canadians seem to think that Winnipeg actually deserves their team back, why do Americans think that Winnipeg isn't suitable? With a new and right kind of CBA it will work. New arena here is opening in November, it has 16 000 seats, enough for a 700 000 population right? The Manitoba Moose CEO made sure with the NHL that it had enough seats to be classified as a standard NHL sized rink.


Last edited by LadyJet26: 09-23-2004 at 09:44 AM.
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Old
09-23-2004, 10:35 AM
  #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MooseHunter
Winnipeg was a fine franchise until the WHA merged with the NHL, and it has the fan base. With a new CBA, franchises in Hamilton, Winnipeg and Quebec would work. With much lower salaries, profit sharing, and a league that isn't drowning in debit, it will work.
What franchise wouldn't work under these conditions?

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Old
09-23-2004, 10:39 AM
  #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triggrman
What franchise wouldn't work under these conditions?

the markets that in his not-so-humble opinion, "don't deserve franchises"

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Old
09-23-2004, 01:08 PM
  #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MooseHunter
DownFromNJ, please learn how to spell Winnipeg, it really is insulting. It's not Winnepeg, it's Winnipeg.

Winnipeg was a fine franchise until the WHA merged with the NHL, and it has the fan base. With a new CBA, franchises in Hamilton, Winnipeg and Quebec would work. With much lower salaries, profit sharing, and a league that isn't drowning in debit, it will work. You may not know the city of Winnipeg, but I sure as hell do, and we got shafted by the Jets last owner and we got shafted by the league. I'm not even a Jets fan to begin with, but this city misses that team and they deserve it a whole flipping lot more than half the cities in the United States. Half the small prairie hick towns (don't mean to offend anyone) deserve a team more than Phoenix, Carolina, or where ever the heck the Panthers play.

The Panthers play in between Miami and Fort Lauderdale, if that isn't a bigger market than Winnipeg I don't know what is. BTW, I am Canadian and just because you have sour grapes doesn't mean any market is less viable than your own, people with hundreds of millions of dollars make these decisions and not lightly either. There was a valid reason to leave the 'Peg.

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Old
09-23-2004, 02:55 PM
  #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nomorekids
the markets that in his not-so-humble opinion, "don't deserve franchises"
I'm not a he thank you very much. And I'm sorry if I think the state of Florida needs 2 NHL teams when teams in Canada get shafted again and again. I'm only saying this will happen if the new CBA will support small market teams.

And to make myself clear. I am not a Jets fan. I was raised in Vancouver and am 100% a Canucks fan. I just feel this city got shafted by their last owner, which they did. Don't even try to argue with me or otherwise I will have to get the owner of jetsowner.com to tell you exactly what happened in this city over 10 years ago. This city is sick and tired of cheering on an AHL team that is one of their greatest rivals farm team. If the CBA allows it, it will freaking happen.

Oh and Phoenix, btw, loses just as much money as the Jets did, so either way it was a bad franchise until the great one decided to invest.

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09-23-2004, 04:54 PM
  #150
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I'd eliminate the NHL's New York offices. All the bad decisions seem to come out of there. I don't care how many American franchises Bettman wants, if you ask me the first step to running the league better is running it out of Toronto again.

But since they aren't a "team", I suppose Anaheim. They lose money, L.A. already has a team, people are trying to sell them, plus they've got Disney all over them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thresher
(I've omitted cities without franchises - for example, Mexico City is #1)...

2. New York, United States...Rangers
3. Los Angeles, United States...Kings
4. Chicago, United States...Blackhawks
5. Toronto, Canada...Maple Leafs
11. Philadelphia, United States...Flyers
13. Phoenix, United States...Coyotes
17. Dallas, United States...Stars
25. Montreal, Canada...Canadiens
27. Detroit, United States...Red Wings
30. San Jose, United States...Sharks
31. Calgary, Canada...Flames
36. Columbus, United States...Blue Jackets
40. Edmonton, Canada...Oilers
49. Boston, United States...Bruins
55. Nashville, United States...Predators
56. Denver, United States...Avalanche
58. Washington, United States...Capitals
66. Vancouver, Canada....Canucks
83. Atlanta, United States...Thrashers
98. Miami, United States...Panthers
103. Saint Louis, United States...Blues
108. Ottawa, Canada...Senators
126. Buffalo, United States...Sabres
146. Anaheim, United States....Mighty Ducks of
117. Pittsburgh, United States...Penguins
123. Tampa, United States...Lightning
131. Raleigh, United States...Hurricanes
Not trying to get into a municipal/metro population debate, but there are some problems. Not minutae like Chicago/Toronto, but huge freakin' problems with the Canadian populations. It goes -

Toronto
Montréal
Vancouver
Ottawa
Calgary
Edmonton

The ordering up there is just bizarre. The only explanation I can come up with is that Ottawa's population is actually Kanata.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sotnos
If Carolina had a winner, people would show up, they certainly have the population and the income levels to support a team.
A finals appearance two years ago isn't winning enough for you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nomorekids
Hockey in Winnipeg failed already. We've been over that. Had they been selling out their games when they were moved, we might make a case for it. And this is coming from a guy who grew up loving the Jets. It saddens me that it didn't work, but it didn't work, nonetheless.
Hockey also "failed" in Atlanta, Denver, San Jose... for the love of God I do not want to hear this crap anymore.

Now, see, I really hate these threads because people use factors like profits in an unprofitable league or attendance figures from a decade ago to make points. What I would like to see is every team (probably with the exception of Anaheim, as it could well be sold before the end of the lockout) start out for a year with a new, solid CBA and then look at mass relocation or contraction. Time for some tough love. Player salaries may be a lot but the league will not operate properly on the current setup, salaries aside.

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