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Old
12-08-2011, 04:17 PM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
The more you post about this subject, the more it becomes painfully clear you have zero inclination to how the draft works.

And no mater how much you troll, Del Zotto is a solid player. And once again the more you post on that subject, it becomes painfully clear you have no inclination to how young defensemen develop.

Continue to post, by all means, but you're making yourself look uninformed, to put it mildly. Especially when you attempt to bring history, which you have no clue about, into the discussion.
While I don't want to get in the middle of this hostile back and forth, I do agree with Supersonic to a degree.

And the comment about Letang and Yandle being picked behind Staal is ridiculous. Those guys were nowhere near being chosen in the first round.

It's that kind of comment that makes you seem so uninformed. Because anyone who knows about a drafting process knows that a guy who goes at #105 and develops into the type of player Yandle is becomes a surprise to many.

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12-08-2011, 04:17 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
3rd round pick.

And again, had you any clue how drafting works, a "bust" 3rd round pick wouldn't be a bullet point in your dilapidated thesis.

And the "bust" returned equal value in a third round pick.
Please, just stop quoting the guy. He hates Marc Staal. That's all that needs to be said about the validity of his perspective. The only thing you accomplish by quoting him is making sure that I accidentally read some of his posts.

If you look at the recent era of successful drafting, we've done well. We could've done better. But we've done really well. We've gotten more out of second round picks than anyone could reasonably expect. Later round guys like Callahan and now Hagelin (and hopefully Fasth in the future) have surprised too.

From 2004 onward, we haven't done badly with first rounders. Montoya and Korpikoski are both NHLers, even if they're on other teams. Staal was a great pick. I can't get on the Rangers for the Sanguinetti pick. It's not like the Flyers knew all along Giroux was going to be a superstar. They lucked out. Cherepanov was a guy they had to take given his talent, and the unthinkable happened. Del Zotto is playing in the NHL and is nowhere near his prime. And we have no idea about Kreider, McIlrath, and Miller (although Kreider and Miller are certainly exciting). This is coming from someone who would've greatly preferred Tarasenko, to McIlarth: Can we please just see how people turn out? Enough of this the Rangers suck in the first round stuff. Only one of the last eight drafts worth of first round picks (Sanguinett) has busted so far.

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12-08-2011, 04:25 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
Hindsight is 20/20. Sanguinetti was widely considered a good pick at the time.

EDIT: Some great stuff here - http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=262653&page=2
My favorite part of this old thread hahahaha...

The future defense of the Rangers:

Tyutin/Stall
Sauer/Sanguinetti
Baranka/Lifton

Pock, Lampman Among others extras

Looks pretty solid to me!

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12-08-2011, 04:25 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by ilovemarkmessier View Post
My favorite part of this old thread hahahaha...

The future defense of the Rangers:

Tyutin/Stall
Sauer/Sanguinetti
Baranka/Lifton

Pock, Lampman Among others extras

Looks pretty solid to me!

I guess two outta six in 2004 actually isnt bad lmao!!

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Old
12-08-2011, 04:30 PM
  #80
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People can say hindsight is 20/20 all they want, but a professional scout and GM are supposed to have something called foresight.

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12-08-2011, 04:32 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by SLU Hockey View Post
Might I suggest that the reality usually lies in between the two extremes?

The Rangers have one of the highest percentages of homegrown players in the league. Combine that with our current standings in the conference says a lot for our drafting, and if not for our drafting than our scouting abilities as well to pick up unsigned guys like Girardi, or trade for top prospects like McDonagh.
We would have had about the same percentage if we drafted Giroux or Parise. I'm not upset about the Fowler nonpick at all though.

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Old
12-08-2011, 04:34 PM
  #82
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I'm not a fan of our 1st round picks in general, and Jessiman and Sanguinetti sitll give me nightmares. I'll give McIlrath a chance to actually learn how to skate before I put him in that group.

That being said, we've generally been brilliant after the first round.

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12-08-2011, 04:52 PM
  #83
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Perfect case in point, take a look at Detroit, playoffs last what 20 years? So that means no high draft picks, yet somehow they manage to find solid players. I rest my case

Edit: also I'm sick and tired of the "you're trolling" or "you're a hater". Whatever happened to disagreements and debating a subject and stating both sides. Typical "teenage" ******** on here

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12-08-2011, 04:53 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewbackatu View Post
Not as impressive as your stupidity and narrow mindedness is concerning what you in your divine madness consider to be "drafting success.". Lol!!
I never wrote what I consider "drafting success" is, so I am not sure what you are "Lol!!"ing about.

Let me tell you what IS stupid and narrow minded. The belief that a pick can not be a home run because somewhere, somehow, later there was someone better taken by a different team. That Staal was not a home run of a pick because of Letang and Yandle is probably the most moronic idea that has ever been typed on this board. And that is saying something.

If you can walk away from the 1st round (or any round for that matter) with a player like Staal, you do it EVERY time. Few 1st rounders make the kind of impact on the ice that Staal does. Especially outside the top 5 or 10.

Rick DiPietro has always been a pick that people argued about. You could make a pretty reasonable argument that he was a bad pick. They had Luongo. They should have taken Heatley or Gaborik. His durability. Etc. Etc. The one argument that would make NO sense is that he was a bad pick because Lundqvist went 6 rounds later. I mean, the very concept is so amazingly, incredibly asinine that I can only assume it was somehow conceived by robots from the future.

From now on I will give out, in your honor, the "Drewbackatu's Robots from the Future Award" to anyone who displays a distinct ability to dream up and post concepts that are uniquely idiotic to the point of astonishment. Only four month on the board and you have managed to make a mark. Your grammar school friends should be most impressed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 4th Line Grinder
The only success I see here is this team has not drafted a first line player since Kovalev, Amonte, and Weight. It's going on 20 years now, that's pathetic
Did you read my post or the one I responded to? Where did I even say that we have been successful at anything?

This is my opinion. The drafting of Neil Smith after the cup and by Sather before the lockout was awful. Completely brutal. I doubt anyone would argue that.

In the 4 years after the lockout (the ones that we can reasonably judge) We have taken 4 D-men in the first 2 rounds (Staal, Sauer, Sanguinetti, Del Zotto) 3 forwards (Anisimov, Cheripanov, Stepan) and one goalie (Lafleur). The Rangers have focused on defense, with 3 out of the 4 years having taken a defenseman in the first round. The one year they took a forward, he passed away. To me the only important fact is that 5 of the 7 living players are on the team and playing big roles.

We will see what happens with Kreider, McIlrath, Miller and co., but so far count me as someone who has had no problem with recent drafting. You want to complain about Jessiman, Brendl, Malhotra, Stewart, Malone or whoever? Can't argue with it I guess. I just don't see the point.

Just as a side note, I would probably say that '95 was the last time the Rangers drafted a first line player. At least in my opinion, Marc Savard qualifies.

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12-08-2011, 04:57 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McRanger View Post
I never wrote what I consider "drafting success" is, so I am not sure what you are "Lol!!"ing about.

Let me tell you what IS stupid and narrow minded. The belief that a pick can not be a home run because somewhere, somehow, later there was someone better taken by a different team. That Staal was not a home run of a pick because of Letang and Yandle is probably the most moronic idea that has ever been typed on this board. And that is saying something.

If you can walk away from the 1st round (or any round for that matter) with a player like Staal, you do it EVERY time. Few 1st rounders make the kind of impact on the ice that Staal does. Especially outside the top 5 or 10.

Rick DiPietro has always been a pick that people argued about. You could make a pretty reasonable argument that he was a bad pick. They had Luongo. They should have taken Heatley or Gaborik. His durability. Etc. Etc. The one argument that would make NO sense is that he was a bad pick because Lundqvist went 6 rounds later. I mean, the very concept is so amazingly, incredibly asinine that I can only assume it was somehow conceived by robots from the future.

From now on I will give out, in your honor, the "Drewbackatu's Robots from the Future Award" to anyone who displays a distinct ability to dream up and post concepts that are uniquely idiotic to the point of astonishment. Only four month on the board and you have managed to make a mark. Your grammar school friends should be most impressed.




Did you read my post or the one I responded to? Where did I even say that we have been successful at anything?

This is my opinion. The drafting of Neil Smith after the cup and by Sather before the lockout was awful. Completely brutal. I doubt anyone would argue that.

In the 4 years after the lockout (the ones that we can reasonably judge) We have taken 4 D-men in the first 2 rounds (Staal, Sauer, Sanguinetti, Del Zotto) 3 forwards (Anisimov, Cheripanov, Stepan) and one goalie (Lafleur). The Rangers have focused on defense, with 3 out of the 4 years having taken a defenseman in the first round. The one year they took a forward, he passed away. To me the only important fact is that 5 of the 7 living players are on the team and playing big roles.

We will see what happens with Kreider, McIlrath, Miller and co., but so far count me as someone who has had no problem with recent drafting. You want to complain about Jessiman, Brendl, Malhotra, Stewart, Malone or whoever? Can't argue with it I guess. I just don't see the point.

Just as a side note, I would probably say that '95 was the last time the Rangers drafted a first line player. At least in my opinion, Marc Savard qualifies.
I didn't say anything about you, I was making a statement in general not in regards to any post you made

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Old
12-08-2011, 05:00 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Henrik Lundqvist was a 7th round pick, Stepan 2nd, Sauer 2nd, Anisimov 2nd, Callahan 4th, Dubinsky 2nd, Del Zotto 1st (weather you like it or not, he's having a very good season).
I agree that MDZ is having a very good season but face facts, he is never going to be the elite offensive defenseman that out hierachy hoped for when they drafted him #20. John Carlson and Jordon Eberle had better resumes, were there for the taking and we chose to pass on them. Look, I don't want to argue with you; we're both on the same side with slighty different opinions on things, no big deal really.

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12-08-2011, 05:30 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Zil View Post
Please, just stop quoting the guy. He hates Marc Staal. That's all that needs to be said about the validity of his perspective. The only thing you accomplish by quoting him is making sure that I accidentally read some of his posts.

If you look at the recent era of successful drafting, we've done well. We could've done better. But we've done really well. We've gotten more out of second round picks than anyone could reasonably expect. Later round guys like Callahan and now Hagelin (and hopefully Fasth in the future) have surprised too.

From 2004 onward, we haven't done badly with first rounders. Montoya and Korpikoski are both NHLers, even if they're on other teams. Staal was a great pick. I can't get on the Rangers for the Sanguinetti pick. It's not like the Flyers knew all along Giroux was going to be a superstar. They lucked out. Cherepanov was a guy they had to take given his talent, and the unthinkable happened. Del Zotto is playing in the NHL and is nowhere near his prime. And we have no idea about Kreider, McIlrath, and Miller (although Kreider and Miller are certainly exciting). This is coming from someone who would've greatly preferred Tarasenko, to McIlarth: Can we please just see how people turn out? Enough of this the Rangers suck in the first round stuff. Only one of the last eight drafts worth of first round picks (Sanguinett) has busted so far.
I don't hate Marc Staal; I just don't think he's as great as everyone on here thinks he is.

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Old
12-08-2011, 05:32 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Puckface NYR View Post
While I don't want to get in the middle of this hostile back and forth, I do agree with Supersonic to a degree.

And the comment about Letang and Yandle being picked behind Staal is ridiculous. Those guys were nowhere near being chosen in the first round.

It's that kind of comment that makes you seem so uninformed. Because anyone who knows about a drafting process knows that a guy who goes at #105 and develops into the type of player Yandle is becomes a surprise to many.
Okay, I agree with you.

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Old
12-08-2011, 05:46 PM
  #89
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Why did we take Pat Leahy in 1998 when Datsyuk was still on the board???

We actually selected Tomas Kloucek as our last pick before Datsyuk was selected. Man, he sure liked to hit people.

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12-08-2011, 05:56 PM
  #90
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If we are also including historic picks, we could have drafted Trottier (twice) and Bossy, but I'm not sure who we drafted instead.

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12-08-2011, 06:01 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Ian View Post
Hindsight is 20/20.

They're producing more NHL quality players in the drafts in the past five years than they had in the previous five, so that's all that matters.
I know some people wanted Giroux back then but who wouldn't want Giroux over Sanguinetti now?

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12-08-2011, 06:07 PM
  #92
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Despite what people say, especially people in the game, I don't really believe there is any skill to the draft. Either you're drafting in the top few picks or your entire draft is based wholly in luck. The Flyers got lucky that Giroux ended up as a better player than Sanguinetti.

Just to expand on this, the Red Wings are not a good team at drafting, they are a lucky one.


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12-08-2011, 06:49 PM
  #93
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Cam Fowler is severely overrated. Kid can't play defense.

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12-09-2011, 10:40 AM
  #94
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On Puck Daddy today:

Quote:
[Claude] Giroux is in the top three for the Hart right now, and we'd place him there with Phil Kessel of the Toronto Maple Leafs and Jonathan Toews of the Chicago Blackhawks.
Yeah.. that "Sanguinetti over Giroux" pick is starting to look like it's about the same magnitude as "Jessiman over <insert All Star here>", unfortunately. Pretty rough to blow 2 first round picks in 4 years to that extent.

Oh well, like everyone's already mentioned, hindsight is 20/20, Flyers lucked into the pick, etc. Fingers crossed for Kreider, Miller and McIlrath to develop into NHL players.

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12-09-2011, 12:13 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Parker View Post
On Puck Daddy today:

Yeah.. that "Sanguinetti over Giroux" pick is starting to look like it's about the same magnitude as "Jessiman over <insert All Star here>", unfortunately. Pretty rough to blow 2 first round picks in 4 years to that extent.

Oh well, like everyone's already mentioned, hindsight is 20/20, Flyers lucked into the pick, etc. Fingers crossed for Kreider, Miller and McIlrath to develop into NHL players.
It's really not looking to be that way at all. With Sanguinetti, we took a highly touted player who fell into our laps over a guy that was barely ranked in the top-30 as far as I can remember. With Jessiman, we reached for a guy while passing on players (namely Getzlaf and Parise) who were ranked ahead of him.

In all likelihood, we would have taken Berglund if Sangs was off the board. We were heavily interested in him.

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12-09-2011, 01:40 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by MDZ View Post
Imagine if we had both Giroux and Fowler?

Both were taken right after Sangs and McI
Fowler is a turnover machine and a wet noodle in front of the net. If you want an offensive only d-man he's good. We are not building our team that way. I'll take McI.

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12-09-2011, 01:43 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by KingWantsCup View Post
Fowler in truth is at the NHL level because of Anaheim's lack of depth. Even so he's more of an NHL talent at the moment than MacIlrath.

Another thing about MacIlrath, isn't it completely dumb to have a fighting defensemen? Of all skaters on the ice the last ones you want sitting in the box are your defensemen.
when he comes up he will be a 5/6 defenseman. If he needs to make a point or settle a score I will be happy to see him beat somebody's brains out (a la Scott Stevens when he came up). I would hope he develops into a top 4 defenseman and then I'd want him on the ice more often delivering thunderous body checks.

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12-09-2011, 01:45 PM
  #98
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This. He's basically Del Zotto.

It's ridiculous that people insist on comparing the two before McIlrath has even played above Juniors.
He is nowhere near as strong as Del Zotto. He's a better skater. I'll take MDZ without question.

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12-09-2011, 02:08 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
I'm not a fan of our 1st round picks in general, and Jessiman and Sanguinetti sitll give me nightmares. I'll give McIlrath a chance to actually learn how to skate before I put him in that group.

That being said, we've generally been brilliant after the first round.
Your nightmares should be more about the utter stupidity that motivates you to write dopey things like this. When the kid makes the big club and is a solid, intimidating force on the ice a reasonable person would feel silly. You likely will not feel silly.

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12-09-2011, 02:50 PM
  #100
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Fowler , will get stronger will always move the puck and skate well and above all unlike Del Zaster actually hit the net with his shot. But you can't put the toothpaste back in the tube . We have MDZ and chose McIlrath . I still hope to include him In a trade for an actual NHL DMan who can shoot the puck hard and on net or an assemblance of a
LW that can do more than " grind n cycle "

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