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Los Angeles Kings: Players Counter Claims That System, Coach Stifle Offense

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Old
12-08-2011, 02:56 AM
  #1
FrozenRoyalty
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Los Angeles Kings: Players Counter Claims That System, Coach Stifle Offense

Los Angeles Kings: Players Counter Claims That System, Coach Stifle Offense

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12-08-2011, 03:03 AM
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etherialone
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Nice article as usual though I found the title to be slightly misleading (slightly).

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12-08-2011, 08:10 AM
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What, you mean a guy who has been in the game for 30+ years knows more about the game than fans on a message board? Say it ain't so lol

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12-08-2011, 08:33 AM
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Chazz Reinhold
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Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
What, you mean a guy who has been in the game for 30+ years knows more about the game than fans on a message board? Say it ain't so lol
That's you subjective opinion.

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12-08-2011, 08:35 AM
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Chazz Reinhold
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I will sum up the article in one picture:


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12-08-2011, 08:43 AM
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Sydor25
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What are the players going to say? The coach "sucks' and he won't let us do stuff?

Where were the questions about the Kings being 26th in the NHL in total offense since Murray was hired? Why is the media acting like this is a new problem? The Kings have been in the bottom half of 5-on-5 scoring for Murray's entire tenure, they were 30th his first season and are 30th right now.

He coaches a pre-lockout system in a post-lockout NHL. He acts like the removal of the red line is the problem, but has no solution on how to counteract it. He coaches as if the red line still exists.

Throwing an extra forechecker to the boards is not going to generate more scoring chances if the F3 and defensemen setup above the circles. The F1 needs to be the puck recovering forward with the F2 being in the scoring zone and forcing the defense to turn and cover him, sending two forwards to the boards is not the answer. The only way that would work is if the F3 forward setup in the scoring zone, but that would result in an increase of 3-on-2 againsts and Murray hates that.

Sitting back and hoping for mistakes by the other team is not a way to generate a top 10 offense. Look at Tampa, is the 1-3-1 working? No, they don't have the defensemen quality to make it work. NJ, pre-lockout, had the defensemen to make the trap smothering and successful. Tampa does not.

And this comes from the leadership group:

Quote:
KOPITAR: “I’d be lying if I said there was no frustration in the room. Everybody would like to score more goals. Frustrated with where we are right now, I don’t think that’s the case if you look at the standings. I don’t even know where we are, eighth I think, so we’re still in playoff position. I don’t think we have even come close to playing our best hockey, so we’re still in good shape but we’ve got to turn it around. But it can get frustrating. Sometimes, for the guys, it’s almost better if you lose 5-4 than 2-1 or 1-0, because you have the sense that you did something out on the ice, that you did score a goal. But if we score four goals or five goals, I think we will be in pretty good shape, especially because we don’t give up a whole lot of goals. You’ve got a guy named Jon Quick who is pretty solid back there. So if we do get our offense going, I definitely like our chances.’’
Does that really sound like Kopitar and the other players are on board with Terry's system? It sounds like he and some others want the offense opened up because they have the defensemen and goalies to handle it. They want to score 4 or 5 goals because they will probably give up only 2 or 3 goals per game. No reason to play for the 2-1 wins anymore.

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12-08-2011, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
What are the players going to say? The coach "sucks' and he won't let us do stuff?

Where were the questions about the Kings being 26th in the NHL in total offense since Murray was hired? Why is the media acting like this is a new problem? The Kings have been in the bottom half of 5-on-5 scoring for Murray's entire tenure, they were 30th his first season and are 30th right now.

He coaches a pre-lockout system in a post-lockout NHL. He acts like the removal of the red line is the problem, but has no solution on how to counteract it. He coaches as if the red line still exists.

Throwing an extra forechecker to the boards is not going to generate more scoring chances if the F3 and defensemen setup above the circles. The F1 needs to be the puck recovering forward with the F2 being in the scoring zone and forcing the defense to turn and cover him, sending two forwards to the boards is not the answer. The only way that would work is if the F3 forward setup in the scoring zone, but that would result in an increase of 3-on-2 againsts and Murray hates that.

Sitting back and hoping for mistakes by the other team is not a way to generate a top 10 offense. Look at Tampa, is the 1-3-1 working? No, they don't have the defensemen quality to make it work. NJ, pre-lockout, had the defensemen to make the trap smothering and successful. Tampa does not.

And this comes from the leadership group:



Does that really sound like Kopitar and the other players are on board with Terry's system? It sounds like he and some others want the offense opened up because they have the defensemen and goalies to handle it. They want to score 4 or 5 goals because they will probably give up only 2 or 3 goals per game. No reason to play for the 2-1 wins anymore.
Pretty much this. No disrespect intended Frozen, but that was a pretty weak set of questions I assume you asked, given the quotes. And the writing of the article is anything but unbiased.

"Nevertheless, calls for his termination are still rather premature."

That's your opinion. Did you ask DL if TM should be fired? Any of the players? TM himself? You're the reporter, don't include your opinion in it.

Also, who the heck is calling for a return of Barry Melrose and Marc Crawford? Is that being done elsewhere because, while I've seen their name mentioned here from time to time, no one is calling for these guys to come back.

As for the quotes, I love how TM blames the trap for the problem in of scoring. He even admits all teams are playing that style, which would mean all teams have to play against that style as well. So why, Terry, is it that every team in the league can score more often against this system than your team?

I also love how TM says the team is working on new ideas, but the only one he'll ellaborate on is how players need to hold onto the puck longer. Why should they hold onto the puck longer Terry Murray?

"That buys time for the forwards, and it loosens things up for your top end, and now you can get pucks through from the blue line.”



Yep, a bunch of point shots will increase our offense. I mean, it's clearly working now. Clearly, the only thing missing from making our point shots work is having the forwards get beat up while holding the puck for an additional 4-5 seconds before passing it to the defensemen.

And finally, as Sydor said, in what world are you going to see a player, who actually doesn't want to get traded, say the coaching/system sucks?

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12-08-2011, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
Look at Tampa, is the 1-3-1 working? No, they don't have the defensemen quality to make it work. NJ, pre-lockout, had the defensemen to make the trap smothering and successful. Tampa does not.
Tampa doesn't have the defensemen to make any system successful.

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12-08-2011, 10:05 AM
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Ok, so it's settled....it's not Murray and the system, it's the players and the execution.

So, with that said, I've come to the conclusion that this team sucks.

I guess that falls on DL's lap and would suggest he needs to be replaced....he obviously built a team that isn't close to contending.

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12-08-2011, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
As for the quotes, I love how TM blames the trap for the problem in of scoring. He even admits all teams are playing that style, which would mean all teams have to play against that style as well. So why, Terry, is it that every team in the league can score more often against this system than your team?
Exactly. There seem to be plenty of teams that have no problem breaking through the trap that is just running rampant throughout the NHL. Asking the coach of the worst offensive team in the league about how to score more goals is like asking the jobless 35 year old virgin who sits in his parents' basement 24/7 playing World of Warcraft about how to pick up girls at the bar.

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12-08-2011, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Chazz Reinhold View Post
Exactly. There seem to be plenty of teams that have no problem breaking through the trap that is just running rampant throughout the NHL. Asking the coach of the worst offensive team in the league about how to score more goals is like asking the jobless 35 year old virgin who sits in his parents' basement 24/7 playing World of Warcraft about how to pick up girls at the bar.
Sooooooooooooo......


How DO YOU pickup girls at the bar? heh,

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12-08-2011, 10:26 AM
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LOL sorry, couldn't resist, it was right there....

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12-08-2011, 10:32 AM
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Chazz Reinhold
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Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
Sooooooooooooo......


How DO YOU pickup girls at the bar? heh,
That's ok I was expecting something along those lines anyway. And I live in my parents' living room thank you.

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12-08-2011, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Axl Rhoadz View Post
....he obviously built a team that isn't close to contending.
One positive from all of this is the marketing group, AFAICT, has stopped referring to the LA Kings as "the Stanley Cup Contending LA Kings"

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12-08-2011, 11:00 AM
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etherialone
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WWho is responsible for ensuring the players execute the system properly?

Who is saying that the players aren't actually executing TM's system properly and what we are seeing are the results of their doing so?

TM is an automaton and or team plays without enough emotion, without enough challenge or grit or identity or whatever else you want to call it.

As to his time in the game, he is a coach and one from a different era employing a system that is easy enough to beat if you are a coach that knows what he is doing. We run up against this all the time, the amount of time in the game means nothing if you don't continually develop your skills in pace with the changing game.

TM's problem is that he is stuck in the early 2000's as a coach and the game has changed significantly since then.

But why let results determine his fate. The talent we have should be able to overcome ineffective coaching so that is on the players imo but, if we had a coach who knew how to adapt his system to more efficiently utilize his talent then we could have better results.

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12-08-2011, 11:07 AM
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Of course the players are not going to call him out publicly. Why would they?

And since TM does not hold anyone accountable ever for their crappy play if your not named Lewis or Richardson why would they want change?

And if the players do believe in TM and his system, they really suck at it and major changes need to be made if they are going to stay with TM and this system.

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12-08-2011, 11:09 AM
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From Kopitar's own mouth:
Quote:
If [our] guys are standing on the blue line, it’s pointless to dump [the puck] in, because you can’t get to it before the [opposing] defensemen. You can’t even get close enough to them to interfere with the guy and [create a] turnover
Thank god someone in that locker room sees this. I was beginning to think they were doing this on purpose. Watch our dump-ins and see how often we "get it deep" just for the sake of it. We do these hard slap ins that immediately change puck possession. I'm all for the dump-n-chase to combat clogged trap systems, provided you put pucks in places where guys can actually retrieve them. Not once have I seen a "smart" dump-in where the forwards were already entering with speed in retrieval mode. They're doing exactly what Kopitar is saying - waiting at the blue line (or waiting somewhere else) for something to happen. To me, this IS an issue of execution. If we're going to go with this kind of an offensive option, you better be damn good at it. It's not necessarily about playing better. It's about playing smarter.

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12-08-2011, 11:41 AM
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“If you take a look, and go back through statistics, we’re only a couple of points behind last year’s pace at this time,” said Murray. “We’re actually better in goals against [than they were last season] at this time. We’re four less than what we were last year at this time, and we’re fourth in the league in goals against this year.”
IMO, those differences are due to one player – Jonathan Quick. If he hadn’t been been as dominant as he has been with his 4 shutouts, the Kings would be battling Anaheim for the Pacific cellar.

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12-08-2011, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
What, you mean a guy who has been in the game for 30+ years knows more about the game than fans on a message board? Say it ain't so lol
I'm pretty sure his Stanley Cup ringes speak for himself.
Oh and yeah that he spends more time on the waivers list than on the ice at his player career is a nice addition.

This guy must be the ideal guy for young talented players

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12-08-2011, 11:51 AM
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I find that the Kings have taken on the personality of the man who leads them behind the bench.

They all collectively play a passive game. When they gain accesss to the blue line, observe how often they end up dumping the puck to go for a line change or an unsuccessful dump and chase attempt. I challenge someone to track this for tonight's game.

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12-08-2011, 12:06 PM
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So wait guys....if it isn't the coach....then it must be you.



Uh oh. You just inadvertently threw yourself under the bus..

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12-08-2011, 12:10 PM
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So wait guys....if it isn't the coach....then it must be you.



Uh oh. You just inadvertently threw yourself under the bus..
Haha, yeah, I was thinking that too.

I sense from DL's comments yesterday that, unless we start winning, and a lot of winning, in the next five to 10 games, something is coming down the pipe in terms of change. My money is on the coach, as we have little cap room for a trade and isn't going to do a salary dump for picks/prospects. A smaller trade could be possible, or maybe Richardson hits the waiver wire (I say Richardson since he has the highest cap hit of anyone I could see the team waiving).

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12-08-2011, 03:20 PM
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“The area we need to be better at is what we’ve been talking about, the offensive part of the game. Statistically five-on-five, we want to get that number higher. We’ll keep pushing it.”

We'll keep pushing it = more of the same.

I don't see our 5 on 5 improving and that's gonna be an issue until a few players are traded or the coach gets fired.
Keep pushing means more dump and chase.
Keep pushing means don't do anything offensively creative because offensive creativity=defensive liability.

TM would be a good Defensive Coordinator. I just don't see the coaching staff has a real plan.

This team is looking more and more like the Wild from a few years back.

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12-08-2011, 04:09 PM
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I knew it, terry is from the CIA, he brainwashed our players. If Kopitar insinuates there's something wrong, then there is. case closed. Kopi is top dog.

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12-09-2011, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
I find that the Kings have taken on the personality of the man who leads them behind the bench.

They all collectively play a passive game. When they gain accesss to the blue line, observe how often they end up dumping the puck to go for a line change or an unsuccessful dump and chase attempt. I challenge someone to track this for tonight's game.
that's a great point Ziggy and it leads right into what many of us feel is the cause of this. TMu is TO CALM and quiet. people have a tendency whether it's the NHL or real life workplace to mirror their co-workers and leaders attitudes.

watching Murray all these years I see no fire, no passion, no sense of urgency. good leaders remain calm and controlled in stress situations, this way it helps to avoid making a bad decision. some say this is Murray and his style of leading. i am fine with the calm demeanor and remaining in control that is what you want in a leader. at the same time the leader has to be able to inspire passion and urgency.

he just doesn't do it. the fact these guys night in and night out can't play 60-minutes and show up it seems like zombies at times, to me plainly shows that Murray isn't getting the job done. they need someone that is going to challenge them, to inspire them, to light a *** fire under their ass.

is it maybe a case of Murray still coaching them as 'kids'? afraid of upsetting their young minds as they develop and come together as a core? i could see this 2-3 years ago as they developed, to treat them with 'kid gloves'. that time has passed and somebody has to wake these guys up and get them going each night.

i'm tired of watching a team that just looks uninspired each game......somebody step up and lead these guys....PLEASE

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