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Interesting stat I dug up. The long change at First Niagara Center

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12-07-2011, 10:32 PM
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5 Minute Major
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Interesting stat I dug up. The long change at First Niagara Center

Just want to get your guys thought on this. It is just something I have noticed this season and decided to check further into it. Would like your input on if you think it is a coincidence or a problem.

Here goes.

Everyone knows that in the 2nd period, teams have the long change. Well, I wanted to compare the Sabres and opposition scoring in that period.

The Sabres are being outscored at FNC 14-7 during the 15 home games at FNC during the 2nd period.

In the 1st and 3rd period, as well as OT, the Sabres are outscoring the opposition 39-33.

Even on the road, where we are 8 wins and 3 losses, we are being outscored in the 2nd period (long change) 12-9

We are outscoring the opposition 60-48 while teams have the short change but are being outscored 26-16 during the long change period.

Anyway, is this a coincidence or is there something to this? I always felt the Sabres have had sloppy, lazy line changes at times. They seem to get caught for too many men on the ice much more than our opposition.

Could it be coaching?

Laziness of the players?

Coincidence and a waste of a thread?

What do you think?

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12-07-2011, 10:37 PM
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I hadn't really thought about that factor, but for years, I've been miffed at how we change, and when we change.

It's unlikely it's coincidence, IMHO.

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12-07-2011, 10:39 PM
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kudos on that statistic. That is definitely something important that should be brought up.

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12-07-2011, 10:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5 Minute Major View Post
Just want to get your guys thought on this. It is just something I have noticed this season and decided to check further into it. Would like your input on if you think it is a coincidence or a problem.

Here goes.

Everyone knows that in the 2nd period, teams have the long change. Well, I wanted to compare the Sabres and opposition scoring in that period.

The Sabres are being outscored at FNC 14-7 during the 15 home games at FNC during the 2nd period.

In the 1st and 3rd period, as well as OT, the Sabres are outscoring the opposition 39-33.

Even on the road, where we are 8 wins and 3 losses, we are being outscored in the 2nd period (long change) 12-9

Anyway, is this a coincidence or is there something to this? I always felt the Sabres have had sloppy, lazy line changes at times. They seem to get caught for too many men on the ice much more than our opposition.

Could it be coaching?

Laziness of the players?

Coincidence and a waste of a thread?

What do you think?
Consistency is the issue; the second period is the hardest for any team to win becuase the tendency is to take a break waiting to win the game in the third; coaching is the issue imo not line change time.

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12-07-2011, 10:42 PM
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They are slow on and off and are frequently soft on their transition into the offensive zone -- chipping it in deep rather than trying to dangle it in for instance to give their linemates more time to change. For a supposed "quick" team, they're not. There is no urgency to anything they do, be it getting off the ice, getting on the ice, going into the corners, coming back on the backcheck... nothing. When someone is fired up, it's remarkably noticeable.

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12-07-2011, 10:42 PM
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Go back through the beginning of last year and you may have something. With the small sample size of 15 games though, I'd lean towards coincidence.

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12-07-2011, 10:44 PM
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Wouldn't surprise me if their conditioning sucked and was a contributing factor.

We sure do have an awful lot of injured players - conditioning could be a factor for at least some of them.

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12-07-2011, 10:45 PM
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Originally Posted by RiotAct View Post
Go back through the beginning of last year and you may have something. With the small sample size of 15 games though, I'd lean towards coincidence.
But, it's even on the road.

We have an 8-3 record away and are being outscored 12-9 in those games when we have the long change.

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12-07-2011, 10:46 PM
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When half of them are out with concussions, that's not "conditioning".

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12-07-2011, 11:04 PM
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Originally Posted by BigZackKassian View Post
When half of them are out with concussions, that's not "conditioning".
How many confirmed concussions do we have? 3? 4?

Even if you take them out - we still have a lot of injuries, and it's not like this organization has a history of having top-notch trainers and medical staff. How many of the current trainers were here before Pegula took over?

I'm sure some or even most of it is just excitement and adrenaline from getting their first shot in the big league, but the kids (Adam, Gerbe, Ennis, Tropp) always look like they have an extra gear when they get here, compared with the guys that have been up here for years. Could some of that be conditioning as well? Wouldn't surprise me.

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12-07-2011, 11:08 PM
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but the kids (Adam, Gerbe, Ennis, Tropp) always look like they have an extra gear when they get here, compared with the guys that have been up here for years. Could some of that be conditioning as well?
Yes, 23 year olds have more energy than 30 year olds. News at 11.

HOWEVER

I think this has less to do with the conditioning staff and more to do with the individual players and their own drive to stay fit. Myers and Stafford (the two obvious examples) did a lot of work on their own to bulk up. We've seen that it hasn't worked as planned.

Where's Gary Roberts to scare these guys into really changing their bodies?

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12-08-2011, 12:04 AM
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It may not necessarily be the long change, just bad 1st intermission adjustments.

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12-08-2011, 05:19 AM
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A few of the players (Roy and Vanek especially) have driven me nuts for years on how nonchalant they skate to the bench when going for a line change.... Honestly has got to be a good 2 seconds are lost everytime they change! Those things do eventually catch up with you when the guy coming on for you has to wait that extra couple seconds which could mean everything on whether or not they get back into the play or not in time. I think there definitely is something to this stat, nice find 5 M M.

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12-08-2011, 05:29 AM
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Good stat. I kmew it was bad because well... We have always sucked in the 2nd period. Idk what it is but heads have to roll... We arent winning jack squat without 60 minute games.

Its almost getting to be more of an annoyance to talk about over and over again. Yet its hilarious that Lindy hasnt realized this and brought it to the attention during a post game presser. Its sickening how awful this team is game after game for certain stretches of te game. Yet all we het are the same excuses over and over and over again.

Lindys gotta go.

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12-08-2011, 07:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SECRET SQUIRREL View Post
A few of the players (Roy and Vanek especially) have driven me nuts for years on how nonchalant they skate to the bench when going for a line change.... Honestly has got to be a good 2 seconds are lost everytime they change!
That's a pet peeve of mine too - especially with Roy. The slow, lazy, trudging-through-snow line change - and it's even worse when he starts this **** when he's still 30 feet away from the bench. Show some ****ing hustle, you bum.

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12-08-2011, 07:26 AM
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Good job of looking that up. I've noticed all year that we are getting beat badly during the long change. I am not sure we get more too many men penalties than other teams, but that's something a bit of research can determine.

Whatever the cause though, that is something the coaching staff has to have noticed, and it is up to them to deal with it. So far, they haven't.

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12-08-2011, 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
They are slow on and off and are frequently soft on their transition into the offensive zone -- chipping it in deep rather than trying to dangle it in for instance to give their linemates more time to change. For a supposed "quick" team, they're not. There is no urgency to anything they do, be it getting off the ice, getting on the ice, going into the corners, coming back on the backcheck... nothing. When someone is fired up, it's remarkably noticeable.
What I see is enough urgency. What I do not see is a lot of coordinated effort. I also see frequent boneheaded plays.

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12-08-2011, 05:08 PM
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I agree the stat is real and not coincidence at all. We've gotten burned on breakaways on bad changes numerous times.

It's the old afinogenvo move, raising your stick in the air 100 feet from the bench singaling that you're toast. Yet you still waddle to the damn bench like a fat lady strolling in to MacDonalds.

Pay attention. know who you're taking off. And hustling OFF the bench and into the play is just as important as hustling back to the bench after a hard shift. Haven't these guys seen the movie Miracle where USA hops off the bench and scores a late goal against the Russians??? THAT **** PAYS OFF!

not coincidence. Ruff needs to address this. Little league stuff really, and all he needs to do is bench anyone seen not hustling, throw Tropp or Kassian out there and show he means business. It worked with Tyler. Too bad he broke his wrist right after the benching.

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12-08-2011, 08:47 PM
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I thought BUF was particularly craptastic last night on changes in the 2nd vs. the Flyers. An extra 15-25 feet of deeper dump-in, an extra second or two. It matters.

Also, re: a point Chain noted - coordination - wonder if some of that is due to the constant linemate Bingo Ruff employs, with or without injuries.

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12-13-2011, 11:56 PM
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Well, tonight (Ottawa) was a "victory" as the Sabres entered the period up 2-1 and left the period up 2-1.

It wasn't that they didn't try to look bad again with the long line change, because they did.

- ANOTHER (does any team take more than Buffalo?) too many men on the ice penalty. (a quick whistle on that PP saved the Sabres a goal against)

- Ottawa forward got behind the Sabres defense on a bad line change and clanked one off the cross bar.

That close to being outscored 2-0 in the second.

And, the beat goes on.

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