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How much strength & endurance do you need to play hockey? Compared to other sports?

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09-21-2014, 03:32 PM
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BladesofSTEELwFIRE
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How much strength & endurance do you need to play hockey? Compared to other sports?

First let me start off by saying ice hockey is by far and away my favorite sport AND the most exciting sport in the world. As you saw in the learn to skate thread I have been a longtime fan but not a player.

I must honestly say I am shocked and the lack of strength and endurance of some of the greatest hockey players ever. In Gretzky's autobiography he said he ALWAYS came in last in strength and endurance tests on the Oilers. A video I saw on the Great One actually said you could find some GIRLS out in the crowd who could beat him in arm wrestling!

An article I read on Lemieux said he couldn't even bench 180 lbs. as a rookie and he's 6'4"! I recall from high school at least 3 or 4 17 yr. olds smaller than Lemieux who benched 300 lbs.! Lemieux also couldn't even run 3 miles and he dropped out after a mile and a half!

One of the top NHL draft picks this summer couldn't even do ONE pull up! Not even ONE! It gives the impression you can be a weakling and still be a great hockey player! As a freshman in high school I could 5 or 6 pull ups. Are hockey players as weak as soccer players when it comes to upper body strength? It's really shocking the 2 greatest hockey players EVER weren't even as strong as many high school kids!

As far as endurance goes I recall something Janet Jones Gretzky said. She was new to hockey and she wondered why they only play a minute and keep sitting down! LOL! Do pro hockey players have enough endurance to play 10 or 20 minutes in a row? Based on observance if I had to rank strength and endurance among the 5 main team sports it would go:

Endurance:

1. Soccer
2. Basketball
3. Hockey
4. Football
5. Baseball

Strength:

1. Football
2. Baseball
3. Hockey
4. Basketball
5. Soccer

I welcome your opinions, observations, and how you would rank strength & endurance among major pro sport athletes.


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09-21-2014, 04:12 PM
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At this point hockey is less about strength and endurance and more about speed, agility, and recovery time. It ends up being much more of a sprint that players do for 45 seconds at a time. One of the things to keep in mind is that there was a time in hockey where players didn't do much training in the off season.

But that also doesn't mean that hockey players aren't still some of the greatest athletes. It just takes a much different skill set than many other sports. Gretzky had great vision on the ice and changed the way the game was played. He played a smarter game and succeeded at it. Which is great because new players can watch and pick up the mental part of the game pretty quick and be able to hold there own against better players by playing smart.

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09-21-2014, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BladesofSTEELwFIRE View Post

As far as endurance goes I recall something Janet Jones Gretzky said. She was new to hockey and she wondered why they only play a minute and keep sitting down! LOL! Do pro hockey players have enough endurance to play 10 or 20 minutes in a row?
As someone who plays both ice hockey and soccer, all you need to answer this is to look up the difference between anaerobic vs aerobic exercise.

And in hockey strength is important in many areas but how much you can bench press isn't necessarily a factor when you have the puck on your stick.

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09-21-2014, 04:30 PM
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Strength and endurance aren't prerequisites to play hockey. As you said, the top 2 players of all time were relatively weak (although Lemieux was enormous and became strong).

Some players are also out of shape, Buff being the best example. Some guys like Kessel and Ovi have a few extra pounds, but they can skate as fast as anyone.

The scary thing is that they aren't as dominant as they could be. If they worked out as much as Jagr, Chara or Crosby, they'd perform even better.

Not being able to do a single pull up is ridiculous. That guy must have really weak arms, but he probably shoots hard anyway.

I'm 6 ft 150 lbs, but my slap shot is as hard as some of the 6 ft 3 200 lbs defensemen. It's a matter of technique. If you had perfect skills in every aspect of the game, you'd make the NHL regardless of your build.

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09-21-2014, 04:43 PM
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As someone who plays both ice hockey and soccer, all you need to answer this is to look up the difference between anaerobic vs aerobic exercise.

And in hockey strength is important in many areas but how much you can bench press isn't necessarily a factor when you have the puck on your stick.
You know weightlifting is anaerobic. I've heard some conflicting things about this as far as how it applies to hockey. One rec player once told me being able to lift or squat hundreds of pounds won't help because it's a different type of training.

But if you just need 30 to 45 second bursts of energy to play well then you'd think more muscle is exactly what you need as opposed to the long distance conditioning of an endurance runner or bicyclist.

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09-21-2014, 04:49 PM
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Onetimesniper, it was Sam Bennett who, according to the presser below is the TOP prospect in North America and was drafted 4th overall. I agree it's TOTALLY ridiculous! I remember some kids in elementary school could even do a pull up!

He's the best amateur hockey player in North America, he may be the top overall pick in the upcoming NHL draft and he can't do a single pull-up.

Sam Bennett, 17, said he was "disappointed" with himself for not being able to do a pull-up at the fitness testing during this week's NHL combine, but experts say he shouldn't be too worried about that affecting his draft stock.

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09-21-2014, 05:11 PM
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The standard they hold them to for pull ups at the draft combine is much higher than what you thought counted as a "pull up" in high school

Bennett likely did a few "high school" pull ups which weren't counted as they didn't meet the correct standard, by which time his arms are tired and he can't do a full proper one that they will accept

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09-21-2014, 06:32 PM
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You have to look at it this way.. Hockey is on ice. Hockey is constant sprinting. Hockeypplayers dont need strong arms to have a good shot.

Take a marathon runner and put him in the place of a hockey player and they would get winded faster than any nhl player. Its not about a hockey players distance stamina. Hockey players train in intervals as to best replicate the amount of time spent on ice. Sure they might be only sprinting for :45-1:30 but they can get back on in just a minutes rest and do it again. Marathon runners jog for extended periods. Hockey players sprint for short periods. Look at the exhibition game tonight. Caps vs sabres. Sam reinhart(i believe thats how its spelled) had 20 minutes of ice time by the end of the second period. And thats just his conditioning.

Do you know the strength hockey players have? Martin St Louis can squat over 500 pounds. Not just him either, look at all the top players and you'll see squat ranges from 400-600 no problem. Let alone the core strength needed for keeping balance while doing all the quick agile movements.

Soccer players don't sprint for long periods like they claim. Dont believe me? Half of them can take 90 minute soccer shifts because theyll sprint ti the ball is kicked the other way and then walk till it comes back to them.

Theres no proper way to rank conditioNing. Or strength for that matter as all sports require dofferent types pf strength. Look at it this way. Johnny gaudreau is a skinny lad but he had one of the most powerful shots Boston college has seen. Because he uses his core and leg strength like you should. Im not going to turn this into a shooting thread but shooting requires virtually zero arm strength. Your shot power comes from weight transfer and rotation of your body. All lower body qualities.

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09-24-2014, 04:18 PM
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Matt, I defer to you on the hockey specifics because you have played and I haven't. The puck is not like a street hockey puck but somewhat heavy for a small object. I know it's on ice but it just seems like you could have a stronger shot if you had more arm and wrist strength.

But you are wrong about the marathon comment. I was a big time runner for 10 years and met many other runners. Once I was training at the track and a world class marathoner showed up. I was running with another guy and we were doing intervals from 100m to 400m. He asked to join and we said sure. The guy was AMAZING! He could sprint all out and didn't get tired AT ALL!

You know why? He ran a 2:30 marathon and his resting heart was 45! He had run 50 MILES in ONE day for training before! We are talking almost 8 HOURS of continously running! So there is no way he would get tired doing ANYTHING for 45 seconds to a minute.

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09-26-2014, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BladesofSTEELwFIRE View Post
Matt, I defer to you on the hockey specifics because you have played and I haven't. The puck is not like a street hockey puck but somewhat heavy for a small object. I know it's on ice but it just seems like you could have a stronger shot if you had more arm and wrist strength.

But you are wrong about the marathon comment. I was a big time runner for 10 years and met many other runners. Once I was training at the track and a world class marathoner showed up. I was running with another guy and we were doing intervals from 100m to 400m. He asked to join and we said sure. The guy was AMAZING! He could sprint all out and didn't get tired AT ALL!

You know why? He ran a 2:30 marathon and his resting heart was 45! He had run 50 MILES in ONE day for training before! We are talking almost 8 HOURS of continously running! So there is no way he would get tired doing ANYTHING for 45 seconds to a minute.
I get your point. Maybe more relevant if the marathon runner is playing hockey without equipment on, in a non-contact scrimmage or something.

BUT, put 20-30lbs of gear/clothing/sweat weight on that marathon runner, then have a couple of 200lb geared up men body check him, then see how he does.

There are different variables to optimize your hockey fitness, than with other sports.

Back to the first post: The median fitness level in the NHL is light years ahead of when Gretzky & Lemieux were @ their prime.

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09-26-2014, 01:46 PM
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Back to the first post: The median fitness level in the NHL is light years ahead of when Gretzky & Lemieux were @ their prime.
Just look at old footage and see how some players could barely skate and now look at them. The game changes constantly.

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09-26-2014, 07:26 PM
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Growing up I played hockey, baseball, basketball and soccer. Hockey is by far the most tiring. Soccer and basketball rarely require you to fully exert yourself, so while you get few "official" breaks, you spend a lot of time walking and standing around during play. Baseball can be played by a 90 year old smoker with a peg leg!

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09-27-2014, 08:09 AM
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I play hockey and soccer. I don't have a problem playing a whole game of soccer (90 minutes), but every one minute shift in the third period of hockey kills me. It's simply a different thing. In soccer you have much time to rest, you can run slowly, you stand and walk a bit. In hockey you go full speed for a minute, you never slow down, you never stop moving. It's very different.

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09-27-2014, 08:42 AM
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Have to remember hockey players and upper body strength really doesn't count for much asides from some board battles and even then it's not overly needed, lower body and core strength have to be in top shape to play high level hockey though. There's a reason why you see squat/deadlift/box jump examples of players training, but you don't see any training videos of guys trying to max out their benchpress.

I find hockey far more tiring than Basketball endurance wise skating takes alot more energy than running, but that's just a personal opinion.

Not sure I'd agree with Baseball players being that strong either I'd have basketball and hockey above it in the strength department. I mean sure, there are some beasts in the MLB, but alot of outfeilders are twigs and there are quite a few overweight players and average looking joes in the MLB as well the overall whole isn't very impressive to me.

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09-27-2014, 02:50 PM
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Skip2, see you are agreeing with what I said in the 1st post. Hockey doesn't require much upper body strength and if you see hockey players in shorts and a t-shirt they often look like soccer players. For example, we all know the tragedy that happened to Pavol Demitra. I saw some of the movie of his life and they showed him behind the scenes with the LA Kings and most of the players looked like soccer players when not in their gear especially Demitra and he was a top notch player.

Boo and Cougar, very interesting comments. I have played soccer, basketball, and baseball and soccer was definitely the most tiring of all. Basketball somewhat while baseball is a joke. You can be a fat slob as long as you have good hand/eye coordination. I haven't yet played ice hockey and it seems hard to believe it can be the most tiring since you keep sitting down every minute but I'll eventually find out.

You know soccer midfielders run 10 miles a game? Remember the story I told you about how Lemieux couldn't even run 3 miles and dropped out after a mile and a half? That's why I am dubious of your claim. Super Mario is one of the greatest players ever and his endurance was worse than junior high cross country runners! That's why I say you don't need much endurance (or strength) to play hockey.

You guys don't honestly think hockey players could keep up with soccer midfielders and run 10 miles do you?I bet most hockey players couldn't even run 10 miles at a decent pace because it's not required to play hockey!

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09-27-2014, 03:57 PM
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You're entitled to your opinion, but I'm only speaking from my own personal experience. My experience has been that hockey requires the highest level of exertion. No way do soccer players run 10 miles a game, but even if they do, its mostly a leisurely jog. The odd race for a loose ball or open run happens, but there are long periods of low exertion where you may as well be sitting down. Your info about hockey players running ability is not accurate. As a minor hockey player, everyone on my team was required to be able to run 5k without stopping. We were 13 year olds and the soccer players on the team were no better or worse than the non-soccer players.

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09-27-2014, 04:00 PM
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Skip2, see you are agreeing with what I said in the 1st post. Hockey doesn't require much upper body strength and if you see hockey players in shorts and a t-shirt they often look like soccer players. For example, we all know the tragedy that happened to Pavol Demitra. I saw some of the movie of his life and they showed him behind the scenes with the LA Kings and most of the players looked like soccer players when not in their gear especially Demitra and he was a top notch player.

Boo and Cougar, very interesting comments. I have played soccer, basketball, and baseball and soccer was definitely the most tiring of all. Basketball somewhat while baseball is a joke. You can be a fat slob as long as you have good hand/eye coordination. I haven't yet played ice hockey and it seems hard to believe it can be the most tiring since you keep sitting down every minute but I'll eventually find out.

You know soccer midfielders run 10 miles a game? Remember the story I told you about how Lemieux couldn't even run 3 miles and dropped out after a mile and a half? That's why I am dubious of your claim. Super Mario is one of the greatest players ever and his endurance was worse than junior high cross country runners! That's why I say you don't need much endurance (or strength) to play hockey.

You guys don't honestly think hockey players could keep up with soccer midfielders and run 10 miles do you?I bet most hockey players couldn't even run 10 miles at a decent pace because it's not required to play hockey!
Is 10 miles a bit of a stretch? The few world cup games I watched when players subbed off near the end of the game they should the distance run and it was usually around 10k. So about 10k average over 90 minutes? Put that in comparison to Olympic runners who do 10k in about 30 minutes and while soccer players do a lot more sprinting there's also a lot more rest time.

But believe playing hockey is really a completely different type of burn than straight up running. I'm far sorer after a game of hockey than a game of soccer, yet before I got back into soccer playing hockey wasn't actually doing anything for my cardio. Playing real hockey that is, if you're just doing drop-in/shinny then people tend to float around taking 5 minute shifts.

Think of it this way, a hockey shift is like a sprint that leaves your legs burning after 60s of skating. Yet a 30 second timeout (actual time stopped is closer to a minute) is all they need to get back to full strength. That's what hockey endurance is about.

Have you ever done sprints? Not sure what the official term is, but when I was on the high school track team one time they had setup laser timers and set up a drill where we'd do a 60M, rest for 2-3 minutes, then do it again. If you ever posted a lower time than your first run then you were out. I was a sprinter/jumper, never good at distance running, but with great natural anaerobic endurance was able to keep pace with our best 400M runner. We were the last ones going having completed 7 when the coach just shut it down.

That's the kind of running a hockey player would excel at, Football too, not running 3 miles. Thing is, soccer players will be pretty good at it too. Soccer/Basketball probably give you great all around endurance, while Hockey/Football is mostly just anaerobic.

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09-27-2014, 04:08 PM
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From personal experience, hockey is nothing compared to rugby. If you want to talk about the penultimate combination of endurance and strength it is rugby for sure.

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09-27-2014, 06:30 PM
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From personal experience, hockey is nothing compared to rugby. If you want to talk about the penultimate combination of endurance and strength it is rugby for sure.
I'd agree with that, though if you include individual sports then any sort of boxing/mma/wrestling would go to the top.

What a soccer/basketball/baseball players may not realize is the different manner in which engaging in scrums or taking a hit saps your energy.

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09-27-2014, 10:30 PM
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Rand, even during the World Cup in June they mentioned during the broadcast how the midfielders run 10 miles a game. That doesn't even include if the game goes into 2 extra time periods.

And of course I've done sprints. I was a huge hardcore runner for 10 years. As part of training I did speed work on the track and did intervals from 100m up to 800m. So that means 100m, 200m, 400m, and 800m. Several times over! You can understand how it seems the antithesis of athletic training to keep sitting down like hockey players do? The number one rule my track coach told us is NEVER SIT DOWN!! You strengthen your heart, increase cardiac output and endurance by standing instead of sitting.

Boo, didn't you read what I said about Lemieux? He showed up at training camp and couldn't even finish a 3 mile run. He dropped out after a mile and a half. And he was such a good player he embarrassed people!

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09-28-2014, 12:12 AM
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I'd agree with that, though if you include individual sports then any sort of boxing/mma/wrestling would go to the top.

What a soccer/basketball/baseball players may not realize is the different manner in which engaging in scrums or taking a hit saps your energy.
Yeah, for sure. I tried BJJ for a week and that was the greatest workout of my life.

For team sports though, I think the toughest would be the old school two-way American football players. Too bad they don't exist anymore though

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09-28-2014, 02:19 PM
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all you need to answer this is to look up the difference between anaerobic vs aerobic exercise.
Yes! Modern competitive or pro hockey players, push their bodies beyond the anaerobic threshold on every shift. They don't exert as much force per second as a 100m sprinter, or football & rugby players. But, they do exert a ridiculously higher amount of force per second (on average during sport activity) than a soccer player or long distance runner or long distance cyclist (the athletes in these sports spend most of their time exerting force below the anaerobic threshold, which means that they are generally sustainable levels).

Addressing the Lemieux stories, You didn't have to be fit to play in the NHL in those days...

http://www.si.com/nhl/2012/02/29/pla...ettesnhlhockey


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09-28-2014, 04:04 PM
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Addressing the Lemieux stories, You didn't have to be fit to play in the those days...

http://www.si.com/nhl/2012/02/29/pla...ettesnhlhockey
Wow! That article is really eye opening!

I once read Sergei Zubov actually smoked between periods when he was with the Stars! The article says a staggering 60% of adult Russians still smoke. So that must mean at least a few of the Russians and European players in the NHL today must still smoke.

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09-29-2014, 12:21 PM
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Wow! That article is really eye opening!

I once read Sergei Zubov actually smoked between periods when he was with the Stars! The article says a staggering 60% of adult Russians still smoke. So that must mean at least a few of the Russians and European players in the NHL today must still smoke.
I'd be shocked if nhl players smoked anything besides goalies during the season.

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09-29-2014, 01:42 PM
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I'd be shocked if nhl players smoked anything besides goalies during the season.
With the prevalence of smoking in Europe I bet there are still some NHL players who still sneak in a smoke when they can.

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