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Pegula meddling in hockey matters/player acquisition: Is he? Should he?

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12-08-2011, 07:24 PM
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aceface33
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Pegula meddling in hockey matters/player acquisition: Is he? Should he?

I was listening to WGR's audio vault today and heard some interesting things I've not seen discussed on here yet. First off, Paul Hamilton in his interview with Bulldog this afternoon said that Pegula pretty much told Regier to go out and get Erhoff in the offseason. Hamilton said that Pegula watched every one of Vancouver's playoff games, loved Erhoff and told Regier to go out and get him.

The second thing was in Ted Black's this interview this morning he was talking about how they'd improved the roster since last year and said pretty emphatically "We're not done yet"- I took this to mean that they are looking to make changes and improvements to the roster during the current season, ie trades. So the question is, should Pegula be telling Regier to make specific trades to improve the team now? Is this a good thing? If the Erhoff thing is true (no idea where Hamilton got it from) it seems like Pegula is not shy about giving Regier specific instructions about player acquisition and telling Regier to get it done.

Also of note is that the Ted Black interview was the most annoyed I've ever heard him. He seemed offended that some fans might want to get rid of Ruff and Regier. But much more open to changing the roster, it seemed to me.

Hamilton interview: http://audio.wgr550.com/a/49431899/1...-w-bulldog.htm

Ted Black interview: http://audio.wgr550.com/a/49412110/1...simon-show.htm

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12-08-2011, 07:26 PM
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In the Game 365 on the trip to Europe, the Pegula girls were talking about how their dad loved Ehrhoff (they talked about their dad watching all the late night Canucks playoff games, etc.) and then the Sabres got him.

I'm guessing that is where Hamilton got that scoop.....


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12-08-2011, 07:27 PM
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Ok Pegula, now go out and get Sidney Crosby.

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12-08-2011, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bob View Post
In the Game 365 on the trip to Europe, the Pegula girls were talking about how their dad loved Ehrhoff (they talked about their dad watching all the late night Canucks playoff games, etc.) and then the Sabres got him.

I'm guessing that is where Hamilton got that scoop.....

Probably...it could just be common knowledge. I had just never heard it before. It did seem strange so me at the time that we went out and added another offensive d-man like Erhoff. It makes me a bit nervous that we might have acquired a somewhat redundant player just because Pegula said so. On the other hand if he decrees that Darcy make a trade to shake up the team, I'm all for it.

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12-09-2011, 01:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aceface33 View Post
Hamilton said that Pegula watched every one of Vancouver's playoff games, loved Erhoff and told Regier to go out and get him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bob View Post
In the Game 365 on the trip to Europe, the Pegula girls were talking about how their dad loved Ehrhoff (they talked about their dad watching all the late night Canucks playoff games, etc.) and then the Sabres got him.

I'm guessing that is where Hamilton got that scoop.....
I think Hamilton oversimplified it - Pegula himself in an interview he did in the summer shortly after the Leino and Ehrhoff signings admitted to having known about both players long before last year's playoffs.

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Originally Posted by aceface33 View Post
Probably...it could just be common knowledge. I had just never heard it before. It did seem strange so me at the time that we went out and added another offensive d-man like Erhoff. It makes me a bit nervous that we might have acquired a somewhat redundant player just because Pegula said so. On the other hand if he decrees that Darcy make a trade to shake up the team, I'm all for it.
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Originally Posted by aceface33 View Post
Also of note is that the Ted Black interview was the most annoyed I've ever heard him. He seemed offended that some fans might want to get rid of Ruff and Regier.
I think it was more a result of the badgering that Simon & White, along with some of their callers, that put him on the defensive. Black made it clear that he talks to Regier every day and how their offices are on the same floor not far apart.

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12-09-2011, 01:40 AM
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I think his power with regards to trades is that of "I like player X, try to get him."

The onus is then (rightfully) on Regier in identifying the right deal. I find it nearly impossible to believe Pegula has any say or any voice in actual TRADE negotiations.

Free agents are a different story. He has much more of a say there.

But trades? Trades are really why you have General Managers. Pegula can't know enough about the pieces that would be coming in, or that would be available in the pipeline like Darcy and company.

So he IS meddling in free agency acquisition, but can't really have a huge say with trades beyond what I outlined. He can pick a target and that's about it. I think that approach is fine.


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12-09-2011, 01:44 AM
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And before anyone brings up Steinbrenner, know that The Boss was a coach in football prior to owning the Yankees. Meaning, he had athletic background. And baseball is a totally different animal, with the Yankees being an empire and Pegula not even close to as pushy/arrogant/rude/impatient etc as The Boss was.


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12-09-2011, 02:10 AM
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/shrug

If he told Regier to get Ehrhoff, good on him.

Take some load of Christian's shoulders, and I think you'll soon see him playing consistently the way he was playing for a stretch up to the Philly game.

But nearly 30 minutes a nights, and basically carrying your partner because the only other two proper D-men in Regehr and Sekera are playing together?
That's not easy.

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12-09-2011, 02:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corto View Post
/shrug

If he told Regier to get Ehrhoff, good on him.

Take some load of Christian's shoulders, and I think you'll soon see him playing consistently the way he was playing for a stretch up to the Philly game.

But nearly 30 minutes a nights, and basically carrying your partner because the only other two proper D-men in Regehr and Sekera are playing together?
That's not easy.
I don't think people are being too harsh or critical of Ehrhoff. Most recognize the minutes he's playing and commend him accordingly. He had a rougher game against Philly, but I am, and many are, of the belief that we have many, many, many bigger and more significant problems than Ehrhoff.

For me, he has (after a rougher adjustment period at the beginning) exceeded my d-zone expectations.

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12-09-2011, 02:29 AM
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I wouldn't call it "meddling", or even micro-managing. He wants to win, and he wants to know what the heck is going on. So would you, and so would I. Some owners only care about their bottom line, not the Sabres.

I'm guessing that Mr. Pegula asks a lot of questions and has a few ideas and opinions of his own, but he's working with mgmt and not against them. Regier's been in this business a long time, he's not about to become a yes man and make moves that he doesn't think are right because his boss wants him too. I'm sure he listens, but at the end of the day the moves are probably agreed upon by everybody involved.

I hope they realize that their team is way too soft to make it past the 1st round. I hope that's what they mean by , "not done".

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12-09-2011, 06:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corto View Post
/shrug

If he told Regier to get Ehrhoff, good on him.

Take some load of Christian's shoulders, and I think you'll soon see him playing consistently the way he was playing for a stretch up to the Philly game.

But nearly 30 minutes a nights, and basically carrying your partner because the only other two proper D-men in Regehr and Sekera are playing together?
That's not easy.
Doesn't help that the partner he's carrying is MAG....he doesn't even help a little -_-







I don't know that Pegula or black have much say in trades beyond "You should make a call about that guy" and "Yes do it/ No don't do it" at final approoval. When black said we he means the organization as a whole which includes Darcy.

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12-09-2011, 06:42 AM
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That was a somewhat uncomfortable interview with Black. Like what he said, though. "We're going to do it or we're going to die trying."

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12-09-2011, 07:01 AM
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I imagine Pegula's involvement is usually more strategic - ie we need more top end talent, or we need to be quicker or stronger/bigger. I would think he would leave the more tactical decisions up to Regier and Ruff - the details of trades, acquiring specific players, choosing a "system", etc.

But I wouldn't be at all surprised if he told Regier to go out and get a specific player - like Erhoff. As long as it's a relatively infrequent thing, and as long as it's not an "or else" kind of order where Regier is forced to dramatically overpay (and hurt the team) or else get canned, then some specific direction is probably not a bad thing. I don't think that's micromanagement or even meddling - certainly not in comparison to what we had with Quinn and Golisano.

We can expect that Black and Pegula will be involved in every major player transaction that happens. That's a given - they've said as much. But until we see some evidence to the contrary, I think we can assume that in the majority of cases, how/when those deals get initiated, and how the details are worked out, will be largely up to Regier and to a lesser extent Ruff.

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12-09-2011, 07:10 AM
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Just listening to the Black interview now...

We're a dramatically better team than last year? Really?

I think that's at best a debatable point. Leino is a complete flop at this point, and the defense is hard to evaluate given the shuffling they've had to do with the injuries.

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12-09-2011, 08:24 AM
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Yeah, Ehrhoff's done well, but as soon as he recommends a player that doesn't work out, it's meddling and he shouldn't do it. Here's the bottom line: Pegula shouldn't be telling his GM, even strongly suggesting to his GM, how to make any hockey related decisions. If he has to, he needs to fire the GM.

Not that there's any real evidence that he has. Sometimes I start to think most of these people who cover the Sabres are just overgrown wannabe jocks who get their surrogate adrenaline fix by writing the most incendiary thing they can at any given moment. Half the people on this board seem to have more decorum, writing ability and respect for the truth than these clown journalists.

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12-09-2011, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlr View Post
Just listening to the Black interview now...

We're a dramatically better team than last year? Really?

I think that's at best a debatable point. Leino is a complete flop at this point, and the defense is hard to evaluate given the shuffling they've had to do with the injuries.
Leino's offensive production aside, I would agree that they're better. RR and Hoff are definite improvements. A lot of criticism for Hoff comes from people thinking he'd put up 60 points and make the powerplay the best in the league. It's not the best in the league, but having one guy honestly doesn't make as big of a difference as a change in offensive schemes would.

And I don't think even Patty Lalime's mom would argue that last year's goaltending situation was better than this year.

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12-09-2011, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlr View Post
Just listening to the Black interview now...

We're a dramatically better team than last year? Really?

I think that's at best a debatable point. Leino is a complete flop at this point, and the defense is hard to evaluate given the shuffling they've had to do with the injuries.
We've been very inconsistent but I do think this years team is better than last years. Leino's been better as of late, I really hope they keep Kassian up, he's been very effective and has helped Leino's game tremendously.

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12-09-2011, 08:30 AM
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Its because they write to get hits not true stories.

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12-09-2011, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlr View Post
Just listening to the Black interview now...

We're a dramatically better team than last year? Really?

I think that's at best a debatable point. Leino is a complete flop at this point, and the defense is hard to evaluate given the shuffling they've had to do with the injuries.
Leino was really bad for the first 10 games or so. He has picked up his game dramatically since then, including being great and one of our best forwards a couple times in the last 5 games or so.

Unless others are just seeing something I'm not.

I know the points aren't there but they'll come with time. Dude's gotta learn to shoot though, good lord.

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12-09-2011, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by iciclesonapapershelf View Post
Leino's offensive production aside, I would agree that they're better. RR and Hoff are definite improvements. A lot of criticism for Hoff comes from people thinking he'd put up 60 points and make the powerplay the best in the league. It's not the best in the league, but having one guy honestly doesn't make as big of a difference as a change in offensive schemes would.

And I don't think even Patty Lalime's mom would argue that last year's goaltending situation was better than this year.
Yep.

To be honest, I'm a little surprised that anybody is disappointed with Ehrhoff. I didn't expect him to put up the same offensive numbers he did in Vancouver. He's not playing on a power-play with the Sedin twins, and he had more sheltered minutes there. Scored 50 last year, on pace for 43 this year. We don't even need the Sedin twins, but with a competent PP QB maybe Ehrhoff has a few more points and is on pace for 50. Playing big minutes in all situations.

And he has been a very pleasant surprise in the defensive end for me.

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12-09-2011, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlr View Post
Just listening to the Black interview now...

We're a dramatically better team than last year? Really?

I think that's at best a debatable point. Leino is a complete flop at this point, and the defense is hard to evaluate given the shuffling they've had to do with the injuries.
I find myself drifting over into your camp, because the Sabres have not been able to handle great teams this season. If they are so much better than last year they should be able to handle a few injuries and still beat the best teams in the league on occasion. They have been in some game with great teams, and they have taken them to OT. But unable to keep it together, just like the playoffs the past two seasons. And they have been handled themselves, by less talented teams like NYI and Columbus.

I got news for anybody who thinks this team will be 100% healthy for the playoffs or any significant length of time this season. They wont be. So it's time to eliminate the wishful thinking and the injury excuse right now, because it's not going to save them their opponents. The players need to step up their games right now and start building some team confidence.

With all due respect to Mr. Black the "changes" are coming talk doesn't do much for team morale or confidence. They need to take control and make the change happen under their own power.

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12-09-2011, 08:45 AM
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I have no issue with Pegula getting involved in that he's directing Regier to make the roster better and using his cash to help make it happen. I don't think Regier is such a patsy that Pegula or Black could tell him to go pick someone up that he does not like and see him do it. Ehrhoff and Regehr are serious upgrades on Montador and Butler. They improved the roster.

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12-09-2011, 08:48 AM
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If Pegula is like some of the guys on the trade board, I hope for everything that's good and holy that he's not doing any of the trading or signing.

And yes the team is much better this season than last season, too bad aside from the euro trip they're not even close to fully healthy at all.

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12-09-2011, 08:51 AM
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I'm surprised at the acrimony after years of having a politician who thought he was a GM trying to pull the strings behind Regier's back. How is having direction from above encouraging a GM to improve his roster a bad thing? Or do we need to go back to Quinn have meetings with non-Sabre unemployed former hockey people to get input to then trumpet as his own.

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12-09-2011, 08:57 AM
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There simply isn't enough information here.

Another angle is that Darcy Regier already wanted Ehrhoff, but told Pegula it would be very costly to get him. Pegula may have then given him the green light... "go and get Ehrhoff".

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