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Pegula meddling in hockey matters/player acquisition: Is he? Should he?

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Old
12-09-2011, 09:31 AM
  #26
jlr
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Too lazy to multiquote everyone, but - it's not that I don't think the team is better. I think the defense is almost certainly better when healthy, and I've been really impressed with the callups - Kassian has been awesome, I've liked Adam and even Tropp.

But the quote from Black was that we're "dramatically" better - I just don't see that. Miller has been horrid at times. Leino may be finally "getting it", or he could return to his earlier form. I just don't see enough of a track record or enough consistency to say that we're greatly improved on the ice - regardless of the cause (injuries, new players getting used to the system and their new teammates, etc.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
I'm surprised at the acrimony after years of having a politician who thought he was a GM trying to pull the strings behind Regier's back. How is having direction from above encouraging a GM to improve his roster a bad thing? Or do we need to go back to Quinn have meetings with non-Sabre unemployed former hockey people to get input to then trumpet as his own.
Right - if Pegula is prodding Regier to be active, to make improvements, and to look at creative ways to improve the team instead of waiting for the prefect deal - that's a great improvement over His Sluggliness. Even if he occasionally oversteps and says "go get this guy" - I think he would at least be capable of learning from his mistakes and listening to Black and Regier if they were to talk to him about it. That's not a conversation Quinn would even have - and if he did, he certainly wouldn't be passing it up the food chain to Golisano.

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12-09-2011, 09:37 AM
  #27
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Could be a case where pegula went to darcy and told him about ehrhoff, and reminded him money is not an issue.

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12-09-2011, 09:50 AM
  #28
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It has been openly stated in the media by Darcy, Ted & Terry that they make hockey decisions by committee - that is not meddling.

Frankly, it's Terry's money, & Terry's team - So long as Regier or Black have the ability to say "Whoa, Terry... lets look at this again." I cannot see any harm in the owner expressing what he wants to see on he ice.

If He fires Regier & Ted, and then makes himself COO, Pres & GM (Ballard 2.0) we should be worried.

...And hey, his "meddling" landed us Ehrhoff!!! Keep it up Terry...

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12-09-2011, 09:58 AM
  #29
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Black said in teh interview that Pegula will express his opinions, but FULLY expects that they are followed with thorough discussions by all and even challenged. In fact, he said that Pegula's strongest trait is reading people and he would sniff out a "yes" man from a mile away and wants no part of that type of employee.

So, I don't think it is meddling, but a desire to be involved.

Black strongly stated teh team is better. It is hard to judge that as we dont have close to a full squad and time to gel. He also definitely said they were not done making this team better.

I would expect that Darcy is working the phones constantly, but at this time, is either asking too much or offering too little to "win" trades.

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12-09-2011, 10:51 AM
  #30
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I agree with everyone saying that if Pegula nudges Darcy into activity it's a good thing. Darcy's MO is always to stand pat with his roster until the deadline but from what Black said they always want to look to be improving. I wonder if any changes will actually be made.

On the other hand, I can't have been the only one who said "Ehrhoff?!" when they made that trade to get his rights last summer. I would not be surprised at all if Pegula was the impetus behind that move, considering they already have Leopold, Sekera, Gragnani, and Myers as d-men who tend more or less to the offensive side. Seems like Darcy's impulse would have been to stick with that group.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clock View Post
That was a somewhat uncomfortable interview with Black. Like what he said, though. "We're going to do it or we're going to die trying."
Yeah, I was really surprised at how mad he seemed to get at the questions about Regier/Ruff. Hasn't he been keeping up with Hfboards? I don't blame Simon at all for asking those questions- that's what the fans are talking about.

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12-09-2011, 01:29 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aceface33 View Post
I agree with everyone saying that if Pegula nudges Darcy into activity it's a good thing. Darcy's MO is always to stand pat with his roster until the deadline but from what Black said they always want to look to be improving. I wonder if any changes will actually be made.

On the other hand, I can't have been the only one who said "Ehrhoff?!" when they made that trade to get his rights last summer. I would not be surprised at all if Pegula was the impetus behind that move, considering they already have Leopold, Sekera, Gragnani, and Myers as d-men who tend more or less to the offensive side. Seems like Darcy's impulse would have been to stick with that group.



Yeah, I was really surprised at how mad he seemed to get at the questions about Regier/Ruff. Hasn't he been keeping up with Hfboards? I don't blame Simon at all for asking those questions- that's what the fans are talking about.

I think you're mis-categorizing Ehrhoff, Ace. Yes, he's a great offensive defenseman, but on the other hand, his defensive game is very sound and he can play 25-30 minutes. That puts him in an elite group of defenseman, a group which does not include guys like Grags, Sekera and Leopold.

But as to your original question about Pegula meddling, I'm of the opinion that ownership should set the tone, but management is responsible for execution. The moment those lines get fuzzy, you end up with a Jerry Jones.

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12-11-2011, 02:27 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clock View Post
That was a somewhat uncomfortable interview with Black. Like what he said, though. "We're going to do it or we're going to die trying."
Didn't Black's discomfort make you uncomfortable? It made me feel that way. A little dissatisfaction from the public is all it takes to get Ted to sound like a jerk? Yeah, that was some withering questioning from Howard Simon. /sarcasm

Ted has to know his audience. The front office, the coaches, the players, if they even listen to these interviews, should totally understand if Ted sides with the fans and shows a little frustration and disappointment with the team. Throw us a bone here. It just sounds like the usual "I'll cover your ass if you cover mine" Sabres front office mentality.

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12-11-2011, 02:34 PM
  #33
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Some forget it's almost impossible to make a significant trade at this point in the year too.

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12-11-2011, 03:00 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
I'm surprised at the acrimony after years of having a politician who thought he was a GM trying to pull the strings behind Regier's back. How is having direction from above encouraging a GM to improve his roster a bad thing? Or do we need to go back to Quinn have meetings with non-Sabre unemployed former hockey people to get input to then trumpet as his own.
That scenario turned out pretty damn good for Drury did it not?

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12-11-2011, 03:06 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by FreddieBisco View Post
That scenario turned out pretty damn good for Drury did it not?
And pretty poorly around letting Briere go and crapping on their relationship with McKee...

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12-11-2011, 03:20 PM
  #36
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Pegula invested almost 200 million dollars in the Sabres. If he wants to meddle, he's earned the right to.
Is he? I think he is a part of the process, but relies on Regier and company.
Should he? Yes, it's his team.

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12-11-2011, 04:04 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by static80 View Post
Pegula invested almost 200 million dollars in the Sabres. If he wants to meddle, he's earned the right to.
Is he? I think he is a part of the process, but relies on Regier and company.
Should he? Yes, it's his team.
Do you really want an oil and gas man who had to have his teenage daughter revive his interest in hockey a few years ago to be part of the process of picking players?

Recipe for disaster, and a good way to spit in the face of hockey heaven and turn off a bunch of potential future management types. Rick Dudley, BTW, called some of the free agent moves this summer "asinine" and I doubt he was giving his former team a pass.

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12-11-2011, 04:30 PM
  #38
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Ehrhoff has been a huge minute eater for them. Even though he hasn't been great at times I still like the signing. Especially at the cap hit.

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12-11-2011, 04:36 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
And pretty poorly around letting Briere go and crapping on their relationship with McKee...
I don't find that relevant.McKee was done as soon as he left, so that was a great move letting him get 4 million a year,he was damaged goods.And you can't blame the Sabres for focusing on their priority, Drury stabbed us in the back and should have expressly said he would not re-sign.

Letting Briere go hurts, they should have signed him 5/25 but that's typical Buffalo for you, only we could mess up something so easy and trivial.

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12-11-2011, 04:44 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreddieBisco View Post
I don't find that relevant.McKee was done as soon as he left, so that was a great move letting him get 4 million a year,he was damaged goods.And you can't blame the Sabres for focusing on their priority, Drury stabbed us in the back and should have expressly said he would not re-sign.

Letting Briere go hurts, they should have signed him 5/25 but that's typical Buffalo for you, only we could mess up something so easy and trivial.
I shudder to think where this team would be talent-wise if Drury hadn't stabbed us in the back.

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12-11-2011, 06:00 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreddieBisco View Post
I don't find that relevant.McKee was done as soon as he left, so that was a great move letting him get 4 million a year,he was damaged goods.And you can't blame the Sabres for focusing on their priority, Drury stabbed us in the back and should have expressly said he would not re-sign.

Letting Briere go hurts, they should have signed him 5/25 but that's typical Buffalo for you, only we could mess up something so easy and trivial.
The talk about McKee getting a home-town discount on a reasonable extension but with him being the player rep for the PA had him on the outs with Quinn. Quinn wanted him gone and Jay didn't want to leave. They didn't work out the extension prior to UFA.

Drury over Briere was Quinn, as was them not budging from 3 years/$15 million as their top offer. Larry was upset by the arbitration and didn't think Briere key to the team's success, that "his" guy was more important.

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12-12-2011, 12:32 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slip View Post
I shudder to think where this team would be talent-wise if Drury hadn't stabbed us in the back.
Sure, by now Drury would of been bought out and we would if gladly excepted Edmonton's 4 first round picks for Vanek. We would of been leaps and bounds ahead talent wise. As we didn't win a Cup the last 4 years, would it of mattered?!?!?!

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12-12-2011, 12:55 PM
  #43
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The ideal owner hires the best GM and head coach possible, gives them a blank check, and gets out of the way.

Only time will tell whether Pegula is too hands on.

Look how long it took Mark Cuban to get his first ring in Dallas. He bought the Mavs in January 2000 and won his first title in 2011.

Book the Sabres Stanley Cup parade for 2022 on that schedule.

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12-12-2011, 10:05 PM
  #44
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If Pegula thinks the Steelers are the model franchise for pro sports, I doubt he'd tell Reiger who to go get.

I think that interview with Black last week is his first step to being labeled Larry Quinn II. He's playing the same roll-the guy in the organization who tries to spin everything positive. He's a bit of a politician, also; he's good at telling people what they want to hear.

I don't blame him being positive. It's his job. I'm not sure he's going to have the public's trust in the long term, however.

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12-12-2011, 10:36 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Olaf Fub View Post
If Pegula thinks the Steelers are the model franchise for pro sports, I doubt he'd tell Reiger who to go get.

I think that interview with Black last week is his first step to being labeled Larry Quinn II. He's playing the same roll-the guy in the organization who tries to spin everything positive. He's a bit of a politician, also; he's good at telling people what they want to hear.

I don't blame him being positive. It's his job. I'm not sure he's going to have the public's trust in the long term, however.
How is Ted Black anything like Larry Quinn?

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12-12-2011, 10:43 PM
  #46
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It took several years for Larry Quinn to get a reputation of being "Larry Quinn". Ted Black DESERVES the patience and respect to see what he can do as Pegulas right hand man. Any snide comments are purely disrespectful, ignorant and immature.

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12-13-2011, 08:26 AM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffalo87 View Post
How is Ted Black anything like Larry Quinn?
Go listen to the interview.

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12-13-2011, 08:49 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by aceface33 View Post
Probably...it could just be common knowledge. I had just never heard it before. It did seem strange so me at the time that we went out and added another offensive d-man like Erhoff. It makes me a bit nervous that we might have acquired a somewhat redundant player just because Pegula said so. On the other hand if he decrees that Darcy make a trade to shake up the team, I'm all for it.
I wouldn't call Ehrhoff redundant exactly. If they had added MA Bergeron I would call that redundant, but Ehrhoff's on another level than our other offensive dmen IMO. If you have a chance to add a guy like Ehrhoff you do it regardless of what other dmen you have.

To me the problem is that after adding Ehrhoff that they didn't get rid of Gragnani or Leopold, and add another solid top 4 defensive dman. A guy like Hank or Lydman. Noone spectacular, just a solid dman to play with Ehrhoff. I think having a partner like one of those two or Regehr would make a world of difference for Ehrhoff. You can't really expect him to do his thing playing with Gragnani.

I like Leopold and think he's a solid dman, but if I have to choose two guys to keep out of Ehrhoff, Leo, and Sekera; I'm keeping Ehrhoff and Rej. I'm not saying Leo's a problem I would just rather have a more solid defensive guy than him.

Swap Leo for a guy like Lydman, get Grags off the team, and I think you see a much improved defense when this team is healthy.

Regehr-Myers
Lydman/XXX-Ehrhoff
Rej-Weber/McNabb

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12-13-2011, 09:00 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Olaf Fub View Post
If Pegula thinks the Steelers are the model franchise for pro sports, I doubt he'd tell Reiger who to go get.

I think that interview with Black last week is his first step to being labeled Larry Quinn II.
I don't see how your labeling him Larry Quinn II, or can even say he's heading in that direction whatsoever. Do you know who Larry Quinn is, or how he operated? Because if you really did I don't think you'd be comparing Ted Black to him.

No no no he is not playing the same role as Larry Quinn at all. Did Larry Quinn do weekly interviews with local radio stations like Black does? No. Let alone do it when the team's struggling like they knowing he's going to take some heat? Hell no. Would Larry Quinn go down to the Sabres store and bag people's purchases like Black did? No way in hell. Would Quinn go around personally delivering season tickets to fans like Black did? Yeah right.

People hated Larry Quinn because he meddled in personnel decisions in a bad way. He's the one who, along with Golisano, didn't let Regeir resign Drury and Briere because they didn't want to pay them what they deserved. Ted Black is in no way, shape, or form anywhere near Larry Quinn. Not to mention Quinn was an absolute dbag, and Ted Black seems to be a pretty nice guy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Olaf Fub View Post
He's playing the same roll-the guy in the organization who tries to spin everything positive. He's a bit of a politician, also; he's good at telling people what they want to hear.

I don't blame him being positive. It's his job. I'm not sure he's going to have the public's trust in the long term, however.
And what do you expect Black to do come out and say the team sucks? It's his job to be positive what sports franchise wants its team president to publicly say negative things about the team? Very few. The main difference between Black and Quinn is that Black sincerely cares about making the team better whereas Quinn didn't care because Golisano wasn't going to be firing him.

Why is he not going to have the public's trust exactly? Black may come out and try and be positive when the team is playing poorly, but under him and Pegula they are doing everything they can to win. Quinn would come out and spin things knowing full well that not even close to every effort was being made by ownership to win.


Last edited by ADoubleD: 12-13-2011 at 09:11 AM.
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Old
12-13-2011, 09:41 AM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puckish66 View Post
Go listen to the interview.
I listened to the entire thing at the time of the interview, then I listened to the entire thing again upon seeing these comments.

I see exactly 0 correlation between Larry Quinn's role with the team and Ted Black's. Just because they hold the same position, it does not mean they play the same role with the organization, there is a difference. Quinn overstepped his bounds and the only guy there that could've stopped him was Golisano, and obviously he didn't. Black knows his bounds and he does not cross them.

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