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Off-season Proposals, Rumors, Free Agents & Roster Moves (related topics here) XXII

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Old
12-15-2011, 12:42 PM
  #76
Av-merican
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Originally Posted by TwoPadStack View Post
Penner is another player with all the characteristics that our management try to avoid.

Lazy, unmotivated, inconsistent.

Personally, I like the player's skillset(who doesn't?), but I can't see him being the type of player our management pursues.
Again, where do you get this notion management "avoids" this type of player? If this were the case Mueller would NEVER have been in Colorado, and Stewart and Wolski would've been moved much sooner.

That being said, I wouldn't want Penner anywhere near the Avs--his skillset is far too limited and doesn't offset his many flaws. That and yes, he's looked lost for quite some time now.

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12-15-2011, 12:50 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by TwoPadStack View Post
Personally, I like the player's skillset(who doesn't?), but I can't see him being the type of player our management pursues.
Beggars can't be choosers.

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12-15-2011, 01:50 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by TwoPadStack View Post
Penner is another player with all the characteristics that our management try to avoid.

Lazy, unmotivated, inconsistent.

Personally, I like the player's skillset (who doesn't?), but I can't see him being the type of player our management pursues.
Me

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Old
12-15-2011, 02:49 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Av-merican View Post
Again, where do you get this notion management "avoids" this type of player? If this were the case Mueller would NEVER have been in Colorado, and Stewart and Wolski would've been moved much sooner.
Wolski was/is a bigger headache than Mueller, unfortunately I have to admit that. Peter Mueller has never shown an ounce of a lack of professionalism with this organization, has he? Let's not read too much into what occurred in Phoenix. Winnik used to clash there as well, and you can see how good of a team player he is for us.

I'd be curious to hear examples on how Mueller is anywhere close to Stweart/Penner/Wolski/etc. in terms of a disruption to team harmony/chemistry.

Stewart was moved despite producing, that should tell you all you need to know about how much our management rate character. The team was struggling, Stewart was causing problems, and he was shipped out. Case closed.

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Me
Really? What don't you like about a motivated Dustin Penner? He can take over a game with his mix of skill and size. It's just a shame he is so inconsistent and can't be bothered to put in an honest shift every time out, but aside from that, I don't think anybody can deny he has a great skillset.

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Old
12-15-2011, 03:00 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by TwoPadStack View Post
Wolski was/is a bigger headache than Mueller, unfortunately I have to admit that. Peter Mueller has never shown an ounce of a lack of professionalism with this organization, has he? Let's not read too much into what occurred in Phoenix. Winnik used to clash there as well, and you can see how good of a team player he is for us.

I'd be curious to hear examples on how Mueller is anywhere close to Stweart/Penner/Wolski/etc. in terms of a disruption to team harmony/chemistry.

Stewart was moved despite producing, that should tell you all you need to know about how much our management rate character. The team was struggling, Stewart was causing problems, and he was shipped out. Case closed.
I'm just refuting your repeated claims that management "avoids" such players when IMO there is no such precedent. They're willing to take chances on players with a rep for laziness. Has Mueller been unprofessional? No. Just saying he had that rep and that's why Phoenix got rid of him. If they avoided such players as you say they never would have traded for him and they would never have shown the patience they did with Stewart and Wolski.

I think management should always be open to any way they can improve the team. They're not doing their job if they don't. The only organization that seemingly favors work ethic over talent is Nashville, and frankly you can see the results. They're hard-hitting, hard-working, but still very milquetoast offensively.

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Originally Posted by TwoPadStack View Post
Really? What don't you like about a motivated Dustin Penner? He can take over a game with his mix of skill and size. It's just a shame he is so inconsistent and can't be bothered to put in an honest shift every time out, but aside from that, I don't think anybody can deny he has a great skillset.
His God-awful skating makes him a liability defensively and severely limits his utility IMO. He's a beast on the power play, when he's motivated to do so, but I would never go so far as to say his "skillset" should be appreciated by everyone. He's a big grinder with above-average hands and a nasty shot. That makes him appealing to a certain degree, but by no means a prize.

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12-15-2011, 03:01 PM
  #81
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I respectfully disagree with everything you wrote, but hey, that's the beauty of online discussion. Agree to disagree.

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Old
12-15-2011, 03:03 PM
  #82
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I respectfully disagree with everything you wrote, but hey, that's the beauty of online discussion. Agree to disagree.
No problem with that.

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12-15-2011, 03:05 PM
  #83
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What I'm sure we can agree on is that we need more top-end skill. No doubt about that.

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Old
12-15-2011, 03:07 PM
  #84
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What I'm sure we can agree on is that we need more top-end skill. No doubt about that.
100% agreement there, yes.

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Old
12-15-2011, 03:08 PM
  #85
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Mueller seemed to mature a lot in his time off last year. He seemed to have a bit of a chip on his shoulder when he first came over, not in too bad a way, just what seemed like a bit of an ego. I think that injury and time off forced him to realign his perspective on things, and he seemed much more mature, while still confident, in his interviews during camp. It's too bad that maturity couldn't have been displayed more this year with the team, as I think it could have had a calming influence on some of the guys.

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Old
12-15-2011, 03:13 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
Mueller seemed to mature a lot in his time off last year. He seemed to have a bit of a chip on his shoulder when he first came over, not in too bad a way, just what seemed like a bit of an ego. I think that injury and time off forced him to realign his perspective on things, and he seemed much more mature, while still confident, in his interviews during camp. It's too bad that maturity couldn't have been displayed more this year with the team, as I think it could have had a calming influence on some of the guys.
It's also possible he was maligned by a coach who simply won't tolerate a soft game. Mueller is many things, but a physical player isn't one of them. When he was allowed to play the game his way, he improved noticeably.

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12-15-2011, 04:06 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
Mueller seemed to mature a lot in his time off last year. He seemed to have a bit of a chip on his shoulder when he first came over, not in too bad a way, just what seemed like a bit of an ego. I think that injury and time off forced him to realign his perspective on things, and he seemed much more mature, while still confident, in his interviews during camp. It's too bad that maturity couldn't have been displayed more this year with the team, as I think it could have had a calming influence on some of the guys.
To me Mueller sounded very stupid. I tried to picture him doing math problems.

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Old
12-15-2011, 04:21 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Avsboy View Post
To me Mueller sounded very stupid. I tried to picture him doing math problems.
I'm pretty sure that's wrong. If I'm not mistaken he's had a reputation as a sharp guy for quite a while.

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Old
12-16-2011, 12:21 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by TwoPadStack View Post
What I'm sure we can agree on is that we need more top-end skill. No doubt about that.
I dis-agree.

Winnik - Stastny - Duchene
Landeskog - O'Reilly- Hedjuk

You dont get much better than that. Mueller was supposed to be the top LW. Cant really do anything about that but Winnik has looked great playing alongside Dutch and Stastny. Our 2nd line has been dominant as well. Two star skilled players and two tough power forwards on both lines. I really like these two lines.

What I think we need is more 3rd and 4th line depth.

David Jones is not a top 6 forward. His play this year has probably been one of the biggest disapointments. I am sure he is a big reason why we traded away Stewart. Jones was supposed to be our power forward on our top line.

I would package Jones, O'Byrne (when Wilson comes back) and maybe one of our rookies to get a guy like Steve Downie and maybe a pick. Downie would be a perfect fit as a 3rd liner for us.

Downie- McClement - Galiardi

You dont get much better than that for a 3rd line.

McLeod, Yip, Kobasew, Porter. Out of all these guys, Porter is probably the only guy who deserves to play. Malone has played nice and maybe center our 4th line. Van der Gulik could work his way into a role.

Van der Gulik - Malone - Porter

That is not a bad 4th line.


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Old
12-16-2011, 12:33 AM
  #90
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You dont get much better than that.
You're joking, right? Youngest team in the NHL with the third-lowest payroll. It most certainly DOES get better than that.

I'm not even gonna get into the rest of your post.

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Old
12-16-2011, 12:54 AM
  #91
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You're joking, right? Youngest team in the NHL with the third-lowest payroll. It most certainly DOES get better than that.

I'm not even gonna get into the rest of your post.
Since when does buying a team work?

We have arguably the most young, skilled players out of any team in the league.

All we need is a Ryan Smyth type and a Steve Downie type.

But our defense is another story. Hedja and O'Byrne can hit the road for all I care.

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Old
12-16-2011, 12:56 AM
  #92
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This team needs a top pairing dman to play with EJ, another top 4 dman, two more top 6 caliber forwards, and a couple useful veteran bottom 6ers to replace the mcleod's and porters of the world.

Ideally, O'byrne should be nowhere near the ice, and the way Hejda has been playing he should be on the bottom pairing, O'brien on a good team also wouldn't be more than a 6/7

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Old
12-16-2011, 01:24 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Heebs21 View Post
Since when does buying a team work?

We have arguably the most young, skilled players out of any team in the league.

All we need is a Ryan Smyth type and a Steve Downie type.

But our defense is another story. Hedja and O'Byrne can hit the road for all I care.
Yeah, that Florida team is really ******** the bed this year...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihiliste
Ideally, O'byrne should be nowhere near the ice, and the way Hejda has been playing he should be on the bottom pairing, O'brien on a good team also wouldn't be more than a 6/7
Like on their former teams which is why we've been able to pick them up?

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Old
12-16-2011, 07:21 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Nihiliste View Post
This team needs a top pairing dman to play with EJ, another top 4 dman, two more top 6 caliber forwards, and a couple useful veteran bottom 6ers to replace the mcleod's and porters of the world.

Ideally, O'byrne should be nowhere near the ice, and the way Hejda has been playing he should be on the bottom pairing, O'brien on a good team also wouldn't be more than a 6/7
I'm gonna consider Elliott a top 4 dman for us with the way he's been playing I'd rather he just get paired with a guy like Wilson or O'Byrne and work through the rough patches and learn on the fly.

Barrie could be a PP QB, 5/6 guy in a year or two.

Siemens should be a 2-way top 4 guy in a couple years...

Basically all we need is to hit a home run with Siemens or get a complimentary #1/2 dman to EJ (Pretty sure Suter would be on my short list of top 3 dmen for this role, ignoring probability of acquiring).

O'Brien is a good filler when he keeps his game simple. But with Wilson out (who dramatically improved his puck handling skills) and Quincey playing like someone stole his mojo, he tries to step it up and lead as a Veteran player. I'd love to keep O'Brien for the bottom pairing and find Hejda a new home or keep both of them on the bottom pair.

O'Byrne looks like the odd man out right now. And if we could move Quincey for a nice return at forward, I'd do it in a heartbeat. His value is only going to sink down further again and we have several guys capable of eating minutes.

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Old
12-16-2011, 10:32 AM
  #95
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Since when does buying a team work?
The Flyers (1st in the East) have drafted only three of it's regular starters (Giroux, JVR, Couturier).

Of course the Avalanche need not go to such an extreme. Spending their money would be to support the young players they've drafted.

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We have arguably the most young, skilled players out of any team in the league.
Colorado's record is not indicative of that.

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Old
12-16-2011, 11:21 AM
  #96
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Yeah, that Florida team is really ******** the bed this year...
Give it time, dude...long ways to go yet, though I'm kinda/sorta rooting for the Panthros since such a radical rebuild is really unprecedented.

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12-16-2011, 11:43 AM
  #97
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Give it time, dude...long ways to go yet, though I'm kinda/sorta rooting for the Panthros since such a radical rebuild is really unprecedented.
Oh I know, tbh I'd rather suffer through a few bad years like this to have a solid foundation for the future than to be in the situation Florida is in. However, it's hard to deny that it's working out for them so far. Definitely going better than I ever expected it to.

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Old
12-16-2011, 11:52 AM
  #98
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Since when does buying a team work?

We have arguably the most young, skilled players out of any team in the league.

All we need is a Ryan Smyth type and a Steve Downie type.

But our defense is another story. Hedja and O'Byrne can hit the road for all I care.
Never said "buying" a team works. Spending to fill holes is not "buying" a team. Just saying a team at the cap floor has plenty of holes, and they're readily apparent. To say "you can't get much better than that" is patently absurd.

We need another legit scoring winger, maybe two if Hejduk retires. I like Winnik and all, but he has no business on the top line. And let's just forget about Mueller, okay? Dude's not coming back, and even if he does, it'll be as a mere shell of what he was before.

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Old
12-16-2011, 02:49 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Nihiliste View Post
This team needs a top pairing dman to play with EJ, another top 4 dman, two more top 6 caliber forwards, and a couple useful veteran bottom 6ers to replace the mcleod's and porters of the world.

Ideally, O'byrne should be nowhere near the ice, and the way Hejda has been playing he should be on the bottom pairing, O'brien on a good team also wouldn't be more than a 6/7
I agree. I went to bed last night thinking about it and while I haven't seen him play in a while, I think that d-man could be a guy like Tim Gleason. Out of all the players that could be available, I think he'd be a good fit here.

I would offer Quincey straight up for him although that might not get it done. I am fully aware that Gleason is a UFA at the end of the season and that Quincey is a RFA but I'd still do it.

Gleason-Johnson
Wilson-Hejda
O'Brien-Elliott
O'Byrne

Or perhaps, Jones+Quincey for Gleason+Ruutu???

I think these are the types of moves that the Avs should be considering. Even though you're essentially trading some RFAs for UFAs, you've got to try to get better somehow. I think adding Gleason or Ruutu or both would make us a better team the rest of this season for sure.

Thoughts?

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Old
12-16-2011, 03:07 PM
  #100
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I wouldn't mind getting Tim Gleason here, but trading Quincey to get him would be a lateral move IMHO, if we could do something based around prospects I would like to give it a try. And IIRC EJ and Gleason were paired together during the Olympics.

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