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The Management thread 2.0 ( All GM/Coaching discussion here)

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Old
12-20-2011, 01:45 PM
  #801
SouthernHab
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Originally Posted by Coldplay View Post
You don't understand, clearly.

It's all about the CULTURE and HISTORY and what the people of Quebec DESERVE.
I do understand.

America has its own dirty laundry where culture and history came to the forefront. It wasnt about language but it was about race.

But that's as far as I will go into the political realm of this discussion.

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12-20-2011, 01:46 PM
  #802
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
I do understand.

America has its own dirty laundry where culture and history came to the forefront. It wasnt about language but it was about race.

But that's as far as I will go into the political realm of this discussion.
I was being sarcastic.

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12-20-2011, 01:47 PM
  #803
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Originally Posted by Coldplay View Post
Giving Markov his deal, not-resigning Moore after giving up a 2nd for him, being reactive, not proactive, signing the headcase known as Peter Budaj to a 2-year deal, signing Gorges to a 1-year deal, firing Pearn, taking on Kaberle's monstrosity of a deal, putting Carriere behind the bench...not saying it constitutes a train wreck, but you can't honestly tell me Gauthier's run as GM has been exceptional.
So you just let your best player(skater anyways) walk and spend that money on a lesser one?

He let Moore walk and got Halpern for about half the cost. Halpern had better faceoff numbers, better +- and more production per even strength ice time. But yeah, let's pay more for a less productive player.

Budaj makes barely over 1 mil/year and has very good numbers 2.50 GAA and .914%.

Kaberle makes 4.25/year, how is that a "monstrosity"? It's downright cheap when you look at what Wisniewski makes.

How did firing Pearn and putting carriere behind the bench hurt the team?

I'm not saying he's been exceptional but calling it a tran wreck(see Milbury with Islanders ) is quite comical.

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12-20-2011, 01:49 PM
  #804
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Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
We have no Roy to trade, there is no risk.
Price, Subban, Pacioretty, Plekanec picks and prospects.

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12-20-2011, 01:50 PM
  #805
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Originally Posted by NerdAtTheCoolTable View Post
They may not be bigger but they are grittier players though, guys like Patrick Eaves, Tomas Holmstrom, Justin Abelkader, and Darren Helm aren't afraid to get their noses dirty in the corners and in front of the net.
Yeah Cole, Pacioretty, Plekanec, Darche, Moen, Gionta, Eller never get their noses dirty...good call!

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12-20-2011, 01:51 PM
  #806
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Originally Posted by Coldplay View Post
I was being sarcastic.
Gotta adjust my meter.

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Old
12-20-2011, 01:55 PM
  #807
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
So you just let your best player(skater anyways) walk and spend that money on a lesser one?
Considering how Markov's knee has turned out, either Gauthier didn't do his homework or there have been numerous unforeseen circumstances that have affected the situation over the past few months. Either way, giving him a 3-year contract was madness. 1 or 2 would have been safer and more sensible, and he should have pushed for that. I wanted Markov back and I'm glad he's back, but there's a very real possibility he won't even play this year. Hindsight is obviously 20/20, but it's not looking good on Gauthier right now.

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He let Moore walk and got Halpern for about half the cost. Halpern had better faceoff numbers, better +- and more production per even strength ice time. But yeah, let's pay more for a less productive player.
Moore also scored more goals, shootout goals (he won a few for Tampa on his own, could have helped when we needed the extra point), is more physical, and had proven his worth for us when we needed a clutch goal most in the playoffs. I like to have a productive bottom 6, and while Halpern was decent (26 points, 11 goals), Moore's 18 goals wouldn't have hurt. We keep finishing bottom 10 in the league for offense too.

Halpern is, at best, a lateral move over from Moore. He might be better at faceoffs and he might be better at even strength, but it's not worth letting Moore go for nothing after giving up a 2nd for him.

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Budaj makes barely over 1 mil/year and has very good numbers 2.50 GAA and .914%.
Budaj has pretty mediocre career numbers. We could have done better. The sample size isn't large enough to declare this signing a success. If Price goes down, you'll see why (better hope not) - the man is more inconsistent than you can imagine, just ask Avs fans.

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Kaberle makes 4.25/year, how is that a "monstrosity"? It's downright cheap when you look at what Wisniewski makes.
I like Kaberle and I'm all for him succeeding here, but considering how badly he's fallen over the last year I don't think it was worth risking tying yourself down with his salary for the next 2 years. What if he reverts back to his Boston/Carolina form after a hot start? We'll be stuck with more dead cap space. And IMO Wisniewski (who makes just over a million more over longer term) is the better player: far better shot, offensive production, physical play. Kaberle isn't exactly a physical player. Wiz played with an edge we lack right now outside of Emelin.

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How did firing Pearn and putting carriere behind the bench hurt the team?
Why was firing Pearn a requirement in the first place? Because he didn't have the balls to can Martin instead so he made Pearn into a scapegoat? Carriere has no coaching experience period, so that move is a headscratcher if you ask me.

Quote:
I'm not saying he's been exceptional but calling it a tran wreck(see Milbury with Islanders ) is quite comical.
Not saying train wreck either, but I could do without him and his short-sighted moves.

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Old
12-20-2011, 02:06 PM
  #808
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Originally Posted by Coldplay View Post
Considering how Markov's knee has turned out, either Gauthier didn't do his homework or there have been numerous unforeseen circumstances that have affected the situation over the past few months. Either way, giving him a 3-year contract was madness. 1 or 2 would have been safer and more sensible, and he should have pushed for that. I wanted Markov back and I'm glad he's back, but there's a very real possibility he won't even play this year. Hindsight is obviously 20/20, but it's not looking good on Gauthier right now.



Moore also scored more goals, shootout goals (he won a few for Tampa on his own, could have helped when we needed the extra point), is more physical, and had proven his worth for us when we needed a clutch goal most in the playoffs. I like to have a productive bottom 6, and while Halpern was decent (26 points, 11 goals), Moore's 18 goals wouldn't have hurt. We keep finishing bottom 10 in the league for offense too.

Halpern is, at best, a lateral move over from Moore. He might be better at faceoffs and he might be better at even strength, but it's not worth letting Moore go for nothing after giving up a 2nd for him.



Budaj has pretty mediocre career numbers. We could have done better. The sample size isn't large enough to declare this signing a success. If Price goes down, you'll see why (better hope not) - the man is more inconsistent than you can imagine, just ask Avs fans.



I like Kaberle and I'm all for him succeeding here, but considering how badly he's fallen over the last year I don't think it was worth risking tying yourself down with his salary for the next 2 years. What if he reverts back to his Boston/Carolina form after a hot start? We'll be stuck with more dead cap space. And IMO Wisniewski (who makes just over a million more over longer term) is the better player: far better shot, offensive production, physical play. Kaberle isn't exactly a physical player. Wiz played with an edge we lack right now outside of Emelin.



Why was firing Pearn a requirement in the first place? Because he didn't have the balls to can Martin instead so he made Pearn into a scapegoat? Carriere has no coaching experience period, so that move is a headscratcher if you ask me.



Not saying train wreck either, but I could do without him and his short-sighted moves.
What difference does it make that Markov has a 3 year deal? If he blows out his knee again you put him on LITR and you get the cap room back(see Savard in Boston). 1 year would have cost more plus if he comes back and has a strong year then you have to give him 6.5-7 mil/year for 3 years.

I doubt the doctors told Gauthier Markov would miss half the season. Even with the first setback they expected him back in late Oct/early Nov. Markov has a history of coming back quickly from injuries and I don't recall setbacks in the past.

Moore had more total points because he got more ice time, and got PP time. He wouldn't have got that here. If halpern is a lateral move then we claerly come out ahead because Halpern makes less and this year we have DD and Eller to play top 9 minutes instead of Moore.

Budaj had mediocre numbers because he played in front of a brutal defense in Colorado. Why do you think they keep playing like crap despite a strong group of forwards? Varlamov's numbers took a big hit from Washington to Colorado and that's after they upgraded their defense.

People massively overerate Wisniewski's physical play, I didn't find him very physical when he was here, plus his offense in his career year was less than Kaberle's career average(55-60).

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Old
12-20-2011, 02:13 PM
  #809
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
What difference does it make that Markov has a 3 year deal? If he blows out his knee again you put him on LITR and you get the cap room back(see Savard in Boston). 1 year would have cost more plus if he comes back and has a strong year then you have to give him 6.5-7 mil/year for 3 years.

I doubt the doctors told Gauthier Markov would miss half the season. Even with the first setback they expected him back in late Oct/early Nov. Markov has a history of coming back quickly from injuries and I don't recall setbacks in the past.

Moore had more total points because he got more ice time, and got PP time. He wouldn't have got that here. If halpern is a lateral move then we claerly come out ahead because Halpern makes less and this year we have DD and Eller to play top 9 minutes instead of Moore.

Budaj had mediocre numbers because he played in front of a brutal defense in Colorado. Why do you think they keep playing like crap despite a strong group of forwards? Varlamov's numbers took a big hit from Washington to Colorado and that's after they upgraded their defense.

People massively overerate Wisniewski's physical play, I didn't find him very physical when he was here, plus his offense in his career year was less than Kaberle's career average(55-60).
Marc Savard isn't on the LTIR by the way, nice try. Chiarelli knows how to manage a lot more than Gauthier

http://www.nhlnumbers.com/teams/BOS?year=2012

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Old
12-20-2011, 02:41 PM
  #810
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
Marc Savard isn't on the LTIR by the way, nice try. Chiarelli knows how to manage a lot more than Gauthier

http://www.nhlnumbers.com/teams/BOS?year=2012
He was last yaer, that's what allowed them to add Kelly, Kaberle and Peverley.

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Old
12-20-2011, 02:43 PM
  #811
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He was last yaer, that's what allowed them to add Kelly, Kaberle and Peverley.
Pretty sure it's not the case and that's why they dumped Stuart and Wheeler in order to make that trade for Peverley

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12-20-2011, 02:46 PM
  #812
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Pretty sure it's not the case and that's why they dumped Stuart and Wheeler in order to make that trade for Peverley
they had 4.059 LITR last yaer. Most of that was Savard.

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Old
12-20-2011, 04:28 PM
  #813
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great read
http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/201...take-a-valium/
another goodie:
http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?p...wjzsZo.twitter


Last edited by Hugo Sham: 12-20-2011 at 04:48 PM.
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Old
12-20-2011, 04:33 PM
  #814
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If you want a coach that speaks French, have a coach that speaks French. If you want to win, pick the best coach. Decide which is more important. Expecting that the Canadiens will ever be good enough to win while not choosing the best candidate is the stuff of bygone eras.

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Old
12-20-2011, 08:25 PM
  #815
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Isn't it discrimination to not allow someone a chance for a position because of what language they speak? Couldn't we technically cite the Molson's letter as proof of discrimination and force the government to step in on the process?

Just thinking out loud.

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12-20-2011, 10:39 PM
  #816
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It He Walks the Talk

.....Emelin is in for Diaz, Eller has a place on the 3rd line with capable wingers he's had success (Kostitsyn-Moen) and Plecks will enjoy more puck posession with Leblanc and Cammy .....

I am sick of mismanagement/constant line shuffling (players with mismanaged roles) /mistreatment of rookies/ second-rate coaching / all in this "Original Six" Franchise!! The whole organization is a mess - time for a cleaning Molson!! Why appoint Cunnyworth to hang for your GM's plight?? A French interim Coach was possible, and I am an anglophone!! Therrien, carbonneau (small c), Demers?? Robinson??

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Old
12-20-2011, 10:43 PM
  #817
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Isn't it discrimination to not allow someone a chance for a position because of what language they speak? Couldn't we technically cite the Molson's letter as proof of discrimination and force the government to step in on the process?

Just thinking out loud.

Not when the language is a requirement for the job / when the language can be learn pretty easily if you put effort into it.

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12-20-2011, 11:06 PM
  #818
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Not when the language is a requirement for the job / when the language can be learn pretty easily if you put effort into it.
You are right in terms of requirement or ability to do the job. It be pretty hard to claim a discrimination for someone teaching French being required to know French.

Its debatable whether it is a requirement for the job tho. An English only coach or GM would not hinder him from doing his job. It may be unpopular but wouldnt have any affect of the GM from making trades and running his team. That is where it could become a grey area

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12-20-2011, 11:10 PM
  #819
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Originally Posted by LesHabsRock View Post
If you want a coach that speaks French, have a coach that speaks French. If you want to win, pick the best coach. Decide which is more important. Expecting that the Canadiens will ever be good enough to win while not choosing the best candidate is the stuff of bygone eras.
Or you can have both. Habs hired Julien, a french coach with potential and it seems like they picked the right guy, he eventualy won the cup.

You CAN have both, a bilingual guy that is a great coach.

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12-20-2011, 11:16 PM
  #820
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I am not from Montreal, or even the province of Quebec, so I may be off the mark here.
If I insult anyone I am really sorry as that is not the intent of this post.

I understand everyone wants to keep their cultures, and traditions alive, and I think that is great. That is what makes this country the best one in the world to live.

However, I have been saying it for years now. Hire the best coach (or gm) available, regardless if they speaks french or not.
You just limit yourself if you don't.
And who said the best coach isn't french? Again, they had Julien. And Vigneault(SCF), Therrien(SCF).

The coach has not been the problem, it's the lousy teams that the incompetent GMs have assembled.

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12-20-2011, 11:22 PM
  #821
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cunneyworth to implement more aggressive system
http://www.cyberpresse.ca/sports/hoc...7_accueil_POS1

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12-20-2011, 11:23 PM
  #822
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Not when the language is a requirement for the job / when the language can be learn pretty easily if you put effort into it.
Yeah but there isn't any worth in learning it because the universal language of hockey is English. Always has been and always will be.

Management makes it a requirement simply because of their cowardice.

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12-20-2011, 11:28 PM
  #823
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Roy won't be a problem if he's well surrounded. Holland at Detroit is not doing this alone. He's part of a group of thinkers that was created by Scotty Bowman when he went to Detroit that was based on the old Habs model. You think that maybe the Habs shouldn't return to that since they are the ones that came up with it?

I could see Roy as GM and Coach having the final say in everything. But then you would have guys like Jacques Lemaire and Scotty Bowman part of his dream team. Along with maybe new blood like Pat Brisson. To assist him for coaching you would have Larry Robinson and Benoix Groux.

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12-20-2011, 11:30 PM
  #824
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Yeah but there isn't any worth in learning it because the universal language of hockey is English. Always has been and always will be.

Management makes it a requirement simply because of their cowardice.
The hate is bleeding your post. If management made it a priority, Randy Cunneyworth wouldn't be the coach. Lapierre and Latendresse would still be Habs. It seems to me like Gauthier doesn't care about any of that.

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12-20-2011, 11:35 PM
  #825
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The hate is bleeding your post. If management made it a priority, Randy Cunneyworth wouldn't be the coach. Lapierre and Latendresse would still be Habs. It seems to me like Gauthier doesn't care about any of that.
Didn't read the Molson press release? Or Boivin's comments last offseason?

Didn't think so. Randy's only around until they find another p'tit pauvre de chez nous who we can support financially in exchange for sub-NHL caliber coaching.

A province full of people expecting handouts instead of working hard to place themselves at the top of the pecking order. Nothing new.

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