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AHL and ECHL names??

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Old
12-09-2011, 07:13 PM
  #1
Gerin
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AHL and ECHL names??

just something a little fun to look at, sorry if i posted this in the wrong place or if it has been metioned before but i know they wont do it but it would make sense if the East Coast hockey League and American Hockey League switched names geographically. After Canada lost its only ECHL team everyteam is located in American and besides the Abbotsford Heat in AHL every team is basically in or around the east coast.
just something to look at

http://eliteprospects.com/league_home.php?leagueid=8
http://eliteprospects.com/league_home.php?leagueid=10

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12-09-2011, 08:12 PM
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ECHL hasn't been an acronym since 2003 (when the the East Coast Hockey League merged with the West Coast Hockey League to form the ECHL).

Perhaps check the league histories instead of geographic spread? Which is older?

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12-09-2011, 08:16 PM
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Yeah, let's chuck 70 years of history.

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12-09-2011, 09:15 PM
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Nice layout. Looks interesting

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12-09-2011, 09:48 PM
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Still will never figure out why the ECHL adopted the WCHL teams. The two coinferences generally don't play inseason. It's basically two different leagues anyway. The callups also don't plague the Western teams in the same light.

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12-09-2011, 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Green Men Rule View Post
Still will never figure out why the ECHL adopted the WCHL teams. The two coinferences generally don't play inseason. It's basically two different leagues anyway. The callups also don't plague the Western teams in the same light.
The conferences used to play each other until the economy went in the crapper. Hopefully if it turns around in our lifetime they will play interconference again.

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12-09-2011, 11:08 PM
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Wouldn't be surprised if the ECHL eventually swallows up the CHL, as that league seems to be really hurting. If that were done, they'd have teams in every section of the country and theoretically could have a full 30-team league, making it a 1:1 match with both the AHL and NHL.

And if that happened, maybe they'd change their name to the CHL and become the Continental Hockey League (no, not the KHL).... though they'd probably just keep the ECHL as their history and just keep saying it doesn't stand for anything.

AHL will never change it's name, though. Way too much history behind that brand and it's got major brand recognition in hockey circles.

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12-10-2011, 12:10 AM
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Originally Posted by No Fun Shogun View Post
Wouldn't be surprised if the ECHL eventually swallows up the CHL, as that league seems to be really hurting. If that were done, they'd have teams in every section of the country and theoretically could have a full 30-team league, making it a 1:1 match with both the AHL and NHL.

And if that happened, maybe they'd change their name to the CHL and become the Continental Hockey League (no, not the KHL).... though they'd probably just keep the ECHL as their history and just keep saying it doesn't stand for anything.

AHL will never change it's name, though. Way too much history behind that brand and it's got major brand recognition in hockey circles.
I'm not sure how big I am on your idea. I've wanted it in the past but man a guy like Martinson would be less effective because his recruiting would be hampered. The next step is for NHL teams to own those said AHL and ECHL teams.

They need a name change, I don't dig this not standing for anything business. Most of the ECHL to NHL guys i bet happened under the seperate leagues moniker with the East Coast Hockey league. Somebody can correct me if they so choose but didn't the WCHL play under really different rules regarding vets and what not?

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12-10-2011, 04:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Men Rule View Post
I'm not sure how big I am on your idea. I've wanted it in the past but man a guy like Martinson would be less effective because his recruiting would be hampered. The next step is for NHL teams to own those said AHL and ECHL teams.

They need a name change, I don't dig this not standing for anything business. Most of the ECHL to NHL guys i bet happened under the seperate leagues moniker with the East Coast Hockey league. Somebody can correct me if they so choose but didn't the WCHL play under really different rules regarding vets and what not?
Well, then you really wouldn't like my overall idea on how to expand/improve minor league hockey..... officially make it three-tiered and have teams with long-standing relationships and expanded subsidies from the NHL. Basically, my idea would work like this....

Major League - NHL - 30 teams
AAA - AHL - 30 teams
AA - ECHL/CHL - 30 teams
A - SPHL/FHL/etc. - 30 teams

Honestly think that hockey should follow baseball's model and create a three-tiered farm system, with existing and stable structures at the top and then the NHL stepping in directly to stabilize at the bottom where it really needs help and long-term stability has never been guaranteed.

So, looking at the Hawks, for example.... they'd remained partnered with the Rockford IceHogs in the AHL, let Detroit have sole partnership with the Toledo Walleye in the ECHL and form a partnership of their own with another team at that level, say the Quad City Mallards of the CHL, and then reach down one more level to have a single A affiliate as well, like the Danville Dashers of the FHL. So, the Blackhawks-IceHogs-Mallards-Dashers system would exist under a confederated superstructure similar to what exists in Minor League Baseball. Each team is independently owned and operated, but the Blackhawks provide travel and salary subsidies for the three teams below while retaining sole right to promote, demote, and trade players from within their system.

IMHO, that would be a major win-win for all parties involved. The NHL teams would have a much deeper source of talent development and even potentially have a system where injured players could rehab at lower levels like you see in baseball all the time. The lower league teams, especially at the AA and A level, would get much greater financial stability and still retain day-to-day operational control, while granted losing the ability to make trades. Maybe still have a system where teams at the lower levels can still sign players independently to their team that no one else picked up, and if they turn out to be attractive players wanted at a higher level, then their parent club could have some reward system in place to compensate teams that lose a player that they brought in.

And the NHL could use the A level, as it's mostly non-existent save for the fairly undersized SPHL and FHL, to develop hockey interest in regions that don't have access to professional hockey, such as in parts of the Great Plains, South, and West. And on top of that, major win for players, too, as they'd have more open roster positions with four professional leagues operating and better access for non-drafted or supposedly washed up players a chance to get back in if they impress at lower levels and have the opportunity to move up.

Just my two cents....

And, as far as I know, the western part of the ECHL follows the same rules as the rest of the league.

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12-10-2011, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by GarbageGoal View Post
Yeah, let's chuck 70 years of history.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
ECHL hasn't been an acronym since 2003 (when the the East Coast Hockey League merged with the West Coast Hockey League to form the ECHL).

I wasnt saying that they should actually change the names, of course they wont but just saying its ironic

Perhaps check the league histories instead of geographic spread? Which is older?
Quote:
Originally Posted by No Fun Shogun View Post
Well, then you really wouldn't like my overall idea on how to expand/improve minor league hockey..... officially make it three-tiered and have teams with long-standing relationships and expanded subsidies from the NHL. Basically, my idea would work like this....

Major League - NHL - 30 teams
AAA - AHL - 30 teams
AA - ECHL/CHL - 30 teams
A - SPHL/FHL/etc. - 30 teams

Honestly think that hockey should follow baseball's model and create a three-tiered farm system, with existing and stable structures at the top and then the NHL stepping in directly to stabilize at the bottom where it really needs help and long-term stability has never been guaranteed.

So, looking at the Hawks, for example.... they'd remained partnered with the Rockford IceHogs in the AHL, let Detroit have sole partnership with the Toledo Walleye in the ECHL and form a partnership of their own with another team at that level, say the Quad City Mallards of the CHL, and then reach down one more level to have a single A affiliate as well, like the Danville Dashers of the FHL. So, the Blackhawks-IceHogs-Mallards-Dashers system would exist under a confederated superstructure similar to what exists in Minor League Baseball. Each team is independently owned and operated, but the Blackhawks provide travel and salary subsidies for the three teams below while retaining sole right to promote, demote, and trade players from within their system.

IMHO, that would be a major win-win for all parties involved. The NHL teams would have a much deeper source of talent development and even potentially have a system where injured players could rehab at lower levels like you see in baseball all the time. The lower league teams, especially at the AA and A level, would get much greater financial stability and still retain day-to-day operational control, while granted losing the ability to make trades. Maybe still have a system where teams at the lower levels can still sign players independently to their team that no one else picked up, and if they turn out to be attractive players wanted at a higher level, then their parent club could have some reward system in place to compensate teams that lose a player that they brought in.

And the NHL could use the A level, as it's mostly non-existent save for the fairly undersized SPHL and FHL, to develop hockey interest in regions that don't have access to professional hockey, such as in parts of the Great Plains, South, and West. And on top of that, major win for players, too, as they'd have more open roster positions with four professional leagues operating and better access for non-drafted or supposedly washed up players a chance to get back in if they impress at lower levels and have the opportunity to move up.

Just my two cents....

And, as far as I know, the western part of the ECHL follows the same rules as the rest of the league.
i like that idea, its something they should look into

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12-10-2011, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by No Fun Shogun View Post
Well, then you really wouldn't like my overall idea on how to expand/improve minor league hockey..... officially make it three-tiered and have teams with long-standing relationships and expanded subsidies from the NHL. Basically, my idea would work like this....

Major League - NHL - 30 teams
AAA - AHL - 30 teams
AA - ECHL/CHL - 30 teams
A - SPHL/FHL/etc. - 30 teams

Honestly think that hockey should follow baseball's model and create a three-tiered farm system, with existing and stable structures at the top and then the NHL stepping in directly to stabilize at the bottom where it really needs help and long-term stability has never been guaranteed.

So, looking at the Hawks, for example.... they'd remained partnered with the Rockford IceHogs in the AHL, let Detroit have sole partnership with the Toledo Walleye in the ECHL and form a partnership of their own with another team at that level, say the Quad City Mallards of the CHL, and then reach down one more level to have a single A affiliate as well, like the Danville Dashers of the FHL. So, the Blackhawks-IceHogs-Mallards-Dashers system would exist under a confederated superstructure similar to what exists in Minor League Baseball. Each team is independently owned and operated, but the Blackhawks provide travel and salary subsidies for the three teams below while retaining sole right to promote, demote, and trade players from within their system.

IMHO, that would be a major win-win for all parties involved. The NHL teams would have a much deeper source of talent development and even potentially have a system where injured players could rehab at lower levels like you see in baseball all the time. The lower league teams, especially at the AA and A level, would get much greater financial stability and still retain day-to-day operational control, while granted losing the ability to make trades. Maybe still have a system where teams at the lower levels can still sign players independently to their team that no one else picked up, and if they turn out to be attractive players wanted at a higher level, then their parent club could have some reward system in place to compensate teams that lose a player that they brought in.

And the NHL could use the A level, as it's mostly non-existent save for the fairly undersized SPHL and FHL, to develop hockey interest in regions that don't have access to professional hockey, such as in parts of the Great Plains, South, and West. And on top of that, major win for players, too, as they'd have more open roster positions with four professional leagues operating and better access for non-drafted or supposedly washed up players a chance to get back in if they impress at lower levels and have the opportunity to move up.

Just my two cents....

And, as far as I know, the western part of the ECHL follows the same rules as the rest of the league.
THE ONLY ISSUE I'd see in the above scenario, NFS, is depending on the market, you have Tier II Hockey, where some of the Texas CHL teams have switched as a better model for those markets, your NCAA teams which draw players into the pro level via draft, your current Canadian Junior leagues, which essentially do the same thing how would they fit into the above scenario, and how would you propose if any given hockey market is struggling to keep their franchise afloat, how would tht be handled, or if a franchise elects to reject a proposed lease to any arena they're in currently?

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12-10-2011, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by No Fun Shogun View Post
Well, then you really wouldn't like my overall idea on how to expand/improve minor league hockey..... officially make it three-tiered and have teams with long-standing relationships and expanded subsidies from the NHL. Basically, my idea would work like this....

Major League - NHL - 30 teams
AAA - AHL - 30 teams
AA - ECHL/CHL - 30 teams
A - SPHL/FHL/etc. - 30 teams

Honestly think that hockey should follow baseball's model and create a three-tiered farm system, with existing and stable structures at the top and then the NHL stepping in directly to stabilize at the bottom where it really needs help and long-term stability has never been guaranteed.

So, looking at the Hawks, for example.... they'd remained partnered with the Rockford IceHogs in the AHL, let Detroit have sole partnership with the Toledo Walleye in the ECHL and form a partnership of their own with another team at that level, say the Quad City Mallards of the CHL, and then reach down one more level to have a single A affiliate as well, like the Danville Dashers of the FHL. So, the Blackhawks-IceHogs-Mallards-Dashers system would exist under a confederated superstructure similar to what exists in Minor League Baseball. Each team is independently owned and operated, but the Blackhawks provide travel and salary subsidies for the three teams below while retaining sole right to promote, demote, and trade players from within their system.

IMHO, that would be a major win-win for all parties involved. The NHL teams would have a much deeper source of talent development and even potentially have a system where injured players could rehab at lower levels like you see in baseball all the time. The lower league teams, especially at the AA and A level, would get much greater financial stability and still retain day-to-day operational control, while granted losing the ability to make trades. Maybe still have a system where teams at the lower levels can still sign players independently to their team that no one else picked up, and if they turn out to be attractive players wanted at a higher level, then their parent club could have some reward system in place to compensate teams that lose a player that they brought in.

And the NHL could use the A level, as it's mostly non-existent save for the fairly undersized SPHL and FHL, to develop hockey interest in regions that don't have access to professional hockey, such as in parts of the Great Plains, South, and West. And on top of that, major win for players, too, as they'd have more open roster positions with four professional leagues operating and better access for non-drafted or supposedly washed up players a chance to get back in if they impress at lower levels and have the opportunity to move up.

Just my two cents....

And, as far as I know, the western part of the ECHL follows the same rules as the rest of the league.
While that is a good idea hockey and basketball don't need to adopt baseball's idea because baseball has a 25 man roster and a much longer season. Every guy just about sniffs time in the minor leagues. In the hockey or the NBA if you are great you never see a day in the minor leagues.

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12-10-2011, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by CHRDANHUTCH View Post
THE ONLY ISSUE I'd see in the above scenario, NFS, is depending on the market, you have Tier II Hockey, where some of the Texas CHL teams have switched as a better model for those markets, your NCAA teams which draw players into the pro level via draft, your current Canadian Junior leagues, which essentially do the same thing how would they fit into the above scenario, and how would you propose if any given hockey market is struggling to keep their franchise afloat, how would tht be handled, or if a franchise elects to reject a proposed lease to any arena they're in currently?
Under any situation, there will still be franchises that can't find a fanbase and fold. Happens at the top end level occasionally, and also occurs in the minor leagues as well.

So.... let's pretend that under this model, a new single A league is made in the American southwest and mountain west..... let's just call it the Mountain Hockey League, MHL. MHL has 8-teams, each with a partnership within the higher structures mentioned above. Now, let's pretend that that a single-A team in Santa Fe is, for whatever reason, just not finding it fiscally possible to keep the team. If that were the case, the team owners could decide to sell to someone else or relocate the team to another market.... say to Albuquerque. Or, if push came to shove, the team is just outright folded and a dispersal draft is held that sends the players of the dead team to other franchises in the MHL that the original parent club still retains the rights to while they're searching for a new single A affiliate for the next season (or they just form a temp. partnership with another team for a shared roster, like a lot of ECHL teams currently have).

The beauty about this is that the requirements to operate and open franchises at rock bottom levels like that are significantly less than any other league, so an initial start-up cost wouldn't be an issue if a franchise folded. Additionally, with the model somewhat copying minor league baseball, a lot of franchises at that level are actually able to remain afloat and stay profitable with major league subsidies even if they don't attract very well, so folding would be far rarer than you'd think.

As for competing against other leagues currently in place.... there are three options, really. When it comes to major junior leagues like the WHL or the NCAA, just don't put teams in those markets. That still leaves a lot of untapped regions without organized hockey in the United States. As for semi-pro or minor junior or other leagues in place scattered here and there, that would have to be worked out on a case-by-case basis. In some circumstances, both might coexist. In others, the single-A leagues might look elsewhere and not try to replace what's already in place. And in others still, the single-A leagues might look to bring in semi-pro teams outright or replace minor junior teams. It would obviously have to vary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Men Rule View Post
While that is a good idea hockey and basketball don't need to adopt baseball's idea because baseball has a 25 man roster and a much longer season. Every guy just about sniffs time in the minor leagues. In the hockey or the NBA if you are great you never see a day in the minor leagues.
Very true. Any expanded minor league hockey model couldn't just be a carbon-copy for minor league baseball for a variety of reasons, but you can't deny that MiLB's model is something that could be viewed as an attractive alternative when it comes to longevity and stability for overall existing superstructures. A long-term source of player development and stability for minor league franchises to continue to operate is something that has been sorely lacking, as evident by the shear number of teams and leagues that have outright folded over the past couple years in particular in decades in general. The minor league baseball model isn't perfect, but it does present a lot of attractive farm system ideas for the NHL, imho.

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12-10-2011, 04:01 PM
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Honestly I hope The minors never turn into a system like MILB. Yes it may be more structured but it would ruin A and AA leagues. I like MILB but its clearly not about winning its about developing you prospects I went to a 3 game series earlier this year and guys were getting called up every day. Not that , that doesn't happen in the ECHL but not to that extent. I don't think fans would be interesting in watching hockey development with different players every other game .If you watch teams like that in the AHL its a snooze fest. No real rivalries in the MILB either . In ECHL The rivalries have calmed down but their are still some. Again on paper the idea seems good but I don't like it from a fan perspective again the casual fan probably doesn't care but It would turn the leagues into a vanilla brand of hockey!


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12-10-2011, 08:55 PM
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Honestly I hope The minors never turn into a system like MILB. Yes it may be more structured but it would ruin A and AA leagues. I like MILB but its clearly not about winning its about developing you prospects I went to a 3 game series earlier this year and guys were getting called up every day. Not that , that doesn't happen in the ECHL but not to that extent. I don't think fans would be interesting in watching hockey development with different players every other game .If you watch teams like that in the AHL its a snooze fest. No real rivalries in the MILB either . In ECHL The rivalries have calmed down but their are still some. Again on paper the idea seems good but I don't like it from a fan perspective again the casual fan probably doesn't care but It would turn the leagues into a vanilla brand of hockey!
LOL @ your edit reason. That was funny.

I honestly see no rivalries, sorry Reading fans I don't see you as rivals, the majority of both of our teams change every season, all the callups and what not. That aspect has changed. I do hate Labelle, i'll grant that however it's not the same as the UHL days when we and Adirondack had core guys coming bavk for years. I genuinely hated those guys and that team. I don't like Reading one bit but i'd be lieing if I said it warranted the same feel as those days. Johnny I basically see the 31st AHL team. We deal with that callup stuff all the time like as you speak. Part of it is our location I suppose. A lot of fans I have talked to here are already sick of the ECHL and watching guys only caring about the callup and dogging it, the product here even with 4 straight playoff appearances has declined badly. Because of the callups the lack of physicality and effort exists. We have pretty much accepted winning a Championship here is almost impossible with all this even if we have good teams.

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12-10-2011, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by No Fun Shogun View Post
Under any situation, there will still be franchises that can't find a fanbase and fold. Happens at the top end level occasionally, and also occurs in the minor leagues as well.

So.... let's pretend that under this model, a new single A league is made in the American southwest and mountain west..... let's just call it the Mountain Hockey League, MHL. MHL has 8-teams, each with a partnership within the higher structures mentioned above. Now, let's pretend that that a single-A team in Santa Fe is, for whatever reason, just not finding it fiscally possible to keep the team. If that were the case, the team owners could decide to sell to someone else or relocate the team to another market.... say to Albuquerque. Or, if push came to shove, the team is just outright folded and a dispersal draft is held that sends the players of the dead team to other franchises in the MHL that the original parent club still retains the rights to while they're searching for a new single A affiliate for the next season (or they just form a temp. partnership with another team for a shared roster, like a lot of ECHL teams currently have).

The beauty about this is that the requirements to operate and open franchises at rock bottom levels like that are significantly less than any other league, so an initial start-up cost wouldn't be an issue if a franchise folded. Additionally, with the model somewhat copying minor league baseball, a lot of franchises at that level are actually able to remain afloat and stay profitable with major league subsidies even if they don't attract very well, so folding would be far rarer than you'd think.

As for competing against other leagues currently in place.... there are three options, really. When it comes to major junior leagues like the WHL or the NCAA, just don't put teams in those markets. That still leaves a lot of untapped regions without organized hockey in the United States. As for semi-pro or minor junior or other leagues in place scattered here and there, that would have to be worked out on a case-by-case basis. In some circumstances, both might coexist. In others, the single-A leagues might look elsewhere and not try to replace what's already in place. And in others still, the single-A leagues might look to bring in semi-pro teams outright or replace minor junior teams. It would obviously have to vary.



Very true. Any expanded minor league hockey model couldn't just be a carbon-copy for minor league baseball for a variety of reasons, but you can't deny that MiLB's model is something that could be viewed as an attractive alternative when it comes to longevity and stability for overall existing superstructures. A long-term source of player development and stability for minor league franchises to continue to operate is something that has been sorely lacking, as evident by the shear number of teams and leagues that have outright folded over the past couple years in particular in decades in general. The minor league baseball model isn't perfect, but it does present a lot of attractive farm system ideas for the NHL, imho.
I should point out something to you about the MiLB model that wouldn't add up with your proposal. They have two AA and AAA leagues I believe(maube even more)and they have several A leagues. I would say nothing over like 12-15 teams in any league. So i'm not sure a 30-30-30 pipeline is worth it and DEFINITELY NOT a 30 team Single A league. The A leagues are a joke and are usually comprised of teams owned by guys who are regular dudes who don't realize how much money it costs to run a team and it comes between bringing home enough money to put food on the table and live comfortably. The majority of A leagues have failed. The SPHL may be the exception but you have had some markets come and go. It seems to be working for now but in the long term i'm not certain i'd bet on it.


Last edited by Sports Enthusiast: 12-11-2011 at 03:17 AM. Reason: left out an A
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12-11-2011, 03:13 AM
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I should point out something to you about the MiLB model that wouldn't add up with your proposal. They have two AA and AA leagues I believe(maube even more)and they have several A leagues. I would say nothing over like 12-15 teams in any league. So i'm not sure a 30-30-30 pipeline is worth it and DEFINITELY NOT a 30 team Single A league. The A leagues are a joke and are usually comprised of teams owned by guys who are regular dudes who don't realize how much money it costs to run a team and it comes between bringing home enough money to put food on the table and live comfortably. The majority of A leagues have failed. The SPHL may be the exception but you have had some markets come and go. It seems to be working for now but in the long term i'm not certain i'd bet on it.
I know, a 30-team single A league wouldn't really be that practical, so at that point have multiple regional leagues that never travel outside their neck of the woods would probably be for the best if the NHL wanted to go with the three-tiered system I mentioned.

And the frequency that single A leagues fail is one of the reasons why I think this would be a good thing overall for the game, not just for the owners and players, but for fans as well.

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12-11-2011, 04:55 PM
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Disagree with the 3 tiered minor league hockey system completely.

The reason it works in baseball is because of the sheer volume of prospects and the team needing places for players they draft to play.. here's why:

1) Baseball's draft is 50 rounds. So every year each MLB team is gaining 40 to 60 new prospects (rough number assuming teams will trade some picks).. they need a larger minor league development system in baseball.. NHL draft is 7 rounds, with teams adding 4 to 10 prospects on average.. 80% less, basically.

2) Evidently it's far more possible for players in baseball to substantially improve than n hockey.. In about 10 minutes on Google I can find 10 players from every MLB team team who's spent time at the Single A level.. But find me even two players who ascended from a "Single A" league to the NHL in the past 5 years..

3) NHL organizations can only have 50 players under contract.. this can be changed in the CBA, obviously, but at present NHL teams cannot even fill up a double A team.. considering how few go players from AA to the NHL, it's likely that NHL teams see little need to even expand their ability to have more AA players.. so why would they want or need single A players?

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12-12-2011, 10:35 AM
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Honestly I hope The minors never turn into a system like MILB. Yes it may be more structured but it would ruin A and AA leagues. I like MILB but its clearly not about winning its about developing you prospects I went to a 3 game series earlier this year and guys were getting called up every day. Not that , that doesn't happen in the ECHL but not to that extent. I don't think fans would be interesting in watching hockey development with different players every other game .If you watch teams like that in the AHL its a snooze fest. No real rivalries in the MILB either . In ECHL The rivalries have calmed down but their are still some. Again on paper the idea seems good but I don't like it from a fan perspective again the casual fan probably doesn't care but It would turn the leagues into a vanilla brand of hockey!
I can see both sides of the argument with this. Maybe I am being naive, but I could see this working. Obviously I have not thought everything out, but here is my opinion/blueprint on this. I believe that the way to do it would be to break the ECHL up into two to four leagues. Something that would work geographically as well as put affiliates closer to parent clubs. This is for travel and logistic purposes. Now open the rosters up where there is a fifty/fifty split between prospects and veterans. Each minor leauge affiliate would then have about 12 guys who are veterans. These guys would form the core of a team that would enable rivalries to occur. This is only the simplified version, but I do not have the time to go into complete diagnosis on this.

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12-12-2011, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffNYI View Post
Disagree with the 3 tiered minor league hockey system completely.

The reason it works in baseball is because of the sheer volume of prospects and the team needing places for players they draft to play.. here's why:

1) Baseball's draft is 50 rounds. So every year each MLB team is gaining 40 to 60 new prospects (rough number assuming teams will trade some picks).. they need a larger minor league development system in baseball.. NHL draft is 7 rounds, with teams adding 4 to 10 prospects on average.. 80% less, basically.

2) Evidently it's far more possible for players in baseball to substantially improve than n hockey.. In about 10 minutes on Google I can find 10 players from every MLB team team who's spent time at the Single A level.. But find me even two players who ascended from a "Single A" league to the NHL in the past 5 years..

3) NHL organizations can only have 50 players under contract.. this can be changed in the CBA, obviously, but at present NHL teams cannot even fill up a double A team.. considering how few go players from AA to the NHL, it's likely that NHL teams see little need to even expand their ability to have more AA players.. so why would they want or need single A players?
Obviously would require some work, but great points. Honestly didn't even think about the differences between the MLB and NHL drafts.

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12-12-2011, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Solution View Post
I can see both sides of the argument with this. Maybe I am being naive, but I could see this working. Obviously I have not thought everything out, but here is my opinion/blueprint on this. I believe that the way to do it would be to break the ECHL up into two to four leagues. Something that would work geographically as well as put affiliates closer to parent clubs. This is for travel and logistic purposes. Now open the rosters up where there is a fifty/fifty split between prospects and veterans. Each minor leauge affiliate would then have about 12 guys who are veterans. These guys would form the core of a team that would enable rivalries to occur. This is only the simplified version, but I do not have the time to go into complete diagnosis on this.
Me likey...

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12-13-2011, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Green Men Rule View Post
Me likey...
I am glad. I remember the old Nailers-Chiefs games where you hated the players onthe other team that you remembered committing some aggreivous play (or scoring the game winning goal in a crucial game).

I tried to address the major problem as I see it with drawing fans in. There would have to be more logistics figured out than my simplisitic mind could comprehend, but I think that splitting the difference between veterans and prospects would create an interesting product. Then fans would actually be able to see future NHLers as well as a nucleus around which to feel some affiliation to. Regarding to concersn about the 50 round draft, I believe that the NHL could go back to the 12 round draft like they used to have. Then they could draft some more players. Plus with undrafted free agents, the rosters would be able to fill up. Let the minor league affiliates have the right to sign the veteran players. In exchange the higher levels could agree to advance any of those players before looking elsewhere for replacements.

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12-13-2011, 11:43 AM
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Also I may be way off but wasn't supposedly a chance they expand the rosters to 65 contracts. I may be off and I'm not home so I can't search it up but I remember hearing that i Think.

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12-13-2011, 11:56 AM
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Also I may be way off but wasn't supposedly a chance they expand the rosters to 65 contracts. I may be off and I'm not home so I can't search it up but I remember hearing that i Think.
I can not remember about that, but that would help. Plus this would give teams an option with guys who are at that stage where they might need some more development due to injuries or something. They could sign a PTO contract or something along those lines with the ECHL affiliate and get moved up if their play merits it. It would give teams a better chance to determine if players really fit. I know that Alex Grant is on his last year of his ELC with the Penguins. If not for all of the injuries on the blueline, he would have ended up in Wheeling. He has actually playedwell in WBS, but with all the numbers he might need to be let go at the end of the season. Under this set up he could sign with Wheeling as a FA and end up in WBS quickly.

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12-13-2011, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Solution View Post
I am glad. I remember the old Nailers-Chiefs games where you hated the players onthe other team that you remembered committing some aggreivous play (or scoring the game winning goal in a crucial game).

I tried to address the major problem as I see it with drawing fans in. There would have to be more logistics figured out than my simplisitic mind could comprehend, but I think that splitting the difference between veterans and prospects would create an interesting product. Then fans would actually be able to see future NHLers as well as a nucleus around which to feel some affiliation to. Regarding to concersn about the 50 round draft, I believe that the NHL could go back to the 12 round draft like they used to have. Then they could draft some more players. Plus with undrafted free agents, the rosters would be able to fill up. Let the minor league affiliates have the right to sign the veteran players. In exchange the higher levels could agree to advance any of those players before looking elsewhere for replacements.
What you are talking about is the old UNITED HOCKEY LEAGUE. Which I liked. The problem was they wanted to become a MidWest only league the same time the **** hit the fan with the economy and that region of the country got it as good as anybody.

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