HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Hockey Fights
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Hockey Fights Discuss and rate hockey fights and fighters of today and from the past. Videos welcome!

Anyone else sick of the impending fight after a clean check?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-10-2011, 10:07 AM
  #26
Bonzai
Registered User
 
Bonzai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,341
vCash: 500
The hell? This is a legitimate issue that USUALLY results in an instigator penalty, but you choose possibly the worst example I've ever seen.

Chimera comes in and hits Shenn, no doubt he's talking to him as they grapple along the boards, but Shenn's gloves CLEARLY come off first.

Bonzai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-10-2011, 10:07 AM
  #27
Sureves
Registered User
 
Sureves's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 10,423
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by wej20 View Post
Wasn't even that big of a hit so I don't know why Chimera felt the need to pick a fight. Chimera didn't get an instigator because he didn't come flying in with his gloves already off, he did ask Schenn if he wanted to go. If Schenn had declined then I think Chimera should have got a holding penalty.
Exactly. I agree that Chimera had no business going in there to begin with because it was a clean hit that didn't injure Laich but, beyond that, clearly nothing to discuss.

Sureves is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-10-2011, 10:08 AM
  #28
vezna*
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 8,666
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sureves View Post
Not only did I watch the video, I watched it live. Schenn's gloves come off, no?

Also, Schenn's gloves come off FIRST.

Take off your glasses: then comment.
you're making up the rule as you go along.

read -

46.11 Instigator - An instigator of an altercation shall be a player who by his actions or demeanor demonstrates any/some of the following criteria: distance traveled; gloves off first; first punch thrown; menacing attitude or posture; verbal instigation or threats; conduct in retaliation to a prior game (or season) incident; obvious retribution for a previous incident in the game or season.

vezna* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-10-2011, 10:08 AM
  #29
Duke749
Formerly "BigTuna49"
 
Duke749's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Woodstock, Georgia
Country: Scotland
Posts: 32,241
vCash: 984
Quote:
Originally Posted by wej20 View Post
Wasn't even that big of a hit so I don't know why Chimera felt the need to pick a fight. Chimera didn't get an instigator because he didn't come flying in with his gloves already off, he did ask Schenn if he wanted to go. If Schenn had declined then I think Chimera should have got a holding penalty.
Yeah, I don't know why Chimera wanted to fight. Not a big hit. Just a good check. And he comes flying in wanting to fight?

Duke749 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-10-2011, 10:09 AM
  #30
vezna*
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 8,666
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonzai View Post
The hell? This is a legitimate issue that USUALLY results in an instigator penalty, but you choose possibly the worst example I've ever seen.

Chimera comes in and hits Shenn, no doubt he's talking to him as they grapple along the boards, but Shenn's gloves CLEARLY come off first.
read the rulebook. dropping the gloves first isn't the only criterion for instigating penalty.

vezna* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-10-2011, 10:11 AM
  #31
Sureves
Registered User
 
Sureves's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 10,423
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by vezna View Post
you're making up the rule as you go along.

read -

46.11 Instigator - An instigator of an altercation shall be a player who by his actions or demeanor demonstrates any/some of the following criteria: distance traveled; gloves off first; first punch thrown; menacing attitude or posture; verbal instigation or threats; conduct in retaliation to a prior game (or season) incident; obvious retribution for a previous incident in the game or season.
81.1 Icing For the purpose of this rule, the center red line will divide the ice into halves. Should any player of a team, equal or superior in numerical strength (power-play) to the opposing team, shoot, bat or deflect the puck from his own half of the ice beyond the goal line of the opposing team, play shall be stopped.

Funny, I could have sworn I've seen players ice the puck several inches/feet from the redline without it being called icing during even strength play.

Just because it's in the rulebook doesn't mean it's actually called that way, and the instigator penalty certainly isn't called as it is in the rulebook almost ever.

Sureves is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-10-2011, 10:11 AM
  #32
Dojji*
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 16,821
vCash: 500
I want to see passionate fighting, fights of the moment, in the game. Like the Barch-Thornton fight after he clocked Paille. That's good. Goon wars can go.

Dojji* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-10-2011, 10:13 AM
  #33
Sureves
Registered User
 
Sureves's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 10,423
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by vezna View Post
you're making up the rule as you go along.

read -

46.11 Instigator - An instigator of an altercation shall be a player who by his actions or demeanor demonstrates any/some of the following criteria: distance traveled; gloves off first; first punch thrown; menacing attitude or posture; verbal instigation or threats; conduct in retaliation to a prior game (or season) incident; obvious retribution for a previous incident in the game or season.
81.1 Icing For the purpose of this rule, the center red line will divide the ice into halves. Should any player of a team, equal or superior in numerical strength (power-play) to the opposing team, shoot, bat or deflect the puck from his own half of the ice beyond the goal line of the opposing team, play shall be stopped.

Both are rules that are consistently not called the way are in the rulebook. I have never in my lifetime of watching hockey seen a player get an instigator for chirping beforehand.

Come on man you're embarrassing yourself.

Sureves is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-10-2011, 10:14 AM
  #34
Namikaze Minato
Registered User
 
Namikaze Minato's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Beautiful B.C.
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,035
vCash: 500
As a leafs fan, didn't think the hit was that big. Just a solid check eliminating him from the play and separating him from the puck, happens dozens of times a game. Absolutely no need for chimera to grab him there.

And to the people listening to the announcers say schenn let him off easy, (which I assume that's where this opinion came from) use your own brain. Schenn is a terrible fighter hahaha.

Namikaze Minato is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-10-2011, 10:16 AM
  #35
me123456789
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,281
vCash: 500
Not here to comment on the hit or fight, but is anyone else curious as to what Hamrlik is doing behind the net at the start of the video?

Doing some shufflestep/headfakes. Looks pretty funny.

me123456789 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-10-2011, 10:18 AM
  #36
The Expert
Registered Expert
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Whistler
Country: Jersey
Posts: 12,314
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonzai View Post
The hell? This is a legitimate issue that USUALLY results in an instigator penalty, but you choose possibly the worst example I've ever seen.

Chimera comes in and hits Shenn, no doubt he's talking to him as they grapple along the boards, but Shenn's gloves CLEARLY come off first.
Seriously, what a pointless thread.

For one thing, the refs handled that situation fine, great actually.
Hitting after massive hits on teammates is great and an important part of hockey, it always has been, and it always will be.

The Expert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-10-2011, 10:18 AM
  #37
vezna*
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 8,666
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodimus Prime View Post
As a leafs fan, didn't think the hit was that big. Just a solid check eliminating him from the play and separating him from the puck, happens dozens of times a game. Absolutely no need for chimera to grab him there.

And to the people listening to the announcers say schenn let him off easy, (which I assume that's where this opinion came from) use your own brain. Schenn is a terrible fighter hahaha.
Schenn can fight. don't know what you're talking about


vezna* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-10-2011, 10:18 AM
  #38
MadLuke
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,510
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sureves View Post
Both are rules that are consistently not called the way are in the rulebook. I have never in my lifetime of watching hockey seen a player get an instigator for chirping beforehand.

Come on man you're embarrassing yourself.
But this is the question of the thread, why the nhl rulebook is not use in this situation ?

MadLuke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-10-2011, 10:19 AM
  #39
Namikaze Minato
Registered User
 
Namikaze Minato's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Beautiful B.C.
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,035
vCash: 500
That has to be the worst comparison I've ever seen. Are you saying that because they give leniency on icing calls, that penalties shouldn't happen due to circumstance written clearly in the rule book?

The puck clearly crossed the goal line, but due to icings I think we will call it a no goal!

Namikaze Minato is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-10-2011, 10:20 AM
  #40
The Expert
Registered Expert
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Whistler
Country: Jersey
Posts: 12,314
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by vezna View Post
Schenn can fight. don't know what you're talking about

Dale Weise is a terrible fighter who got his ass kicked by Foligno in his first NHL fight. Obviously Schenn knows how to fight but he's not good at it at all. That example doesn't really help his case very much.

The Expert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-10-2011, 10:20 AM
  #41
vezna*
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 8,666
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sureves View Post
Come on man you're embarrassing yourself.
the entire point of this thread is changing the calls. yes, they don't do it now. but the rule is there and i'm asking why don't they enforce it.

the only one who got embarrassed is you. move on already. as a sens fan, you'll never be able to be objective when the leafs are involved.

vezna* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-10-2011, 10:21 AM
  #42
thepatient
Registered User
 
thepatient's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 623
vCash: 500
I don't mind it, not only does it bring so animosity to the game but it also makes people think twice about throwing a big hit. It can be advantageous for a team with a big fighter to fight after a big hit. Hockey is about the mental side of the game, if you can make someone think twice about hitting your player, you are at an advantage.

thepatient is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-10-2011, 10:22 AM
  #43
WorkingOvertime
Registered User
 
WorkingOvertime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 420
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dojji View Post
I want to see passionate fighting, fights of the moment, in the game. Like the Barch-Thornton fight after he clocked Paille. That's good. Goon wars can go.
I agree.

With clean checks, you have to take what the players on the ice see into account. Does the player know it was a clean check? They may just see their teammate get hit hard, and the circumstances are always clear second-by-second at ice level. The players don't have the benefit of overhead cameras and replays when deciding to stick up for teammates. Further, it is justified IMO to fight if a player is 'running around' regardless of the hits. If a player is hitting many of your teammates hard, there is a chance for injury, even if the hits are clean.

WorkingOvertime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-10-2011, 10:25 AM
  #44
Egoclapper
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 445
vCash: 500
Whenever I see a post on here complaining about a scrum or fight after a clean hit I immediately know the poster hasn't ever played hockey or was never any good.

You stick up for your teammate, even if it was clean. The hitter can turn down a fight, Schenn didn't.

Schenn's a southpaw which is really awkward in hockey fights..

Egoclapper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-10-2011, 10:37 AM
  #45
The Expert
Registered Expert
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Whistler
Country: Jersey
Posts: 12,314
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Egoclapper View Post
Whenever I see a post on here complaining about a scrum or fight after a clean hit I immediately know the poster hasn't ever played hockey or was never any good.

You stick up for your teammate, even if it was clean. The hitter can turn down a fight, Schenn didn't.

Schenn's a southpaw which is really awkward in hockey fights..
People can (and will) call this an ignorant way of looking at it, but I just don't see how anyone after playing multiple years of contact hockey can disagree. You learn pretty early the differences between good teammates and the guys you'd rather not take with you to war.

The Expert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-10-2011, 10:43 AM
  #46
Sureves
Registered User
 
Sureves's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 10,423
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by vezna View Post
the entire point of this thread is changing the calls. yes, they don't do it now. but the rule is there and i'm asking why don't they enforce it.

the only one who got embarrassed is you. move on already. as a sens fan, you'll never be able to be objective when the leafs are involved.
Wait, I will never be able to be objective when the Leafs are involved because I'm a Sens fan, but you are able to be objective when the Leafs are involved despite the fact that your a Leafs fan?

Now I get it...I think I've heard enough from you Vezna, you are sincerely one of the worst posters on the entire website and I think it's time we part ways. You never bring any form of intelligence or substance to any discussion, you are constantly blinded by your homerism, and your judgement of Leaf prospects and players has always been terrible to the point of satire.

Last thing I'll say to you is you're right, clearly Schenn can fight from posting one video of him winning a fight against an absolutely brutal fighter who Foligno managed to beat. One video proves everything you need to know about a player.

See you around buddy...well not actually Welcome to the ignore list.

Sureves is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-10-2011, 10:44 AM
  #47
Morris Wanchuk
.......
 
Morris Wanchuk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: War Memorial Arena
Country: United States
Posts: 15,391
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Morris Wanchuk
With the increase in concussion and injuries, you have more and more players getting laid out and looking like they are dead.

With that comes players being called out left and right for not sticking up for their teammates when hit.

Now, they guys on the ice are saying "damned if I am going to be the guy who gets called out", hence the fight starting.


The only way to solve this is to shrink equipment. Players wont be dead looking on the ice when laid out, less players will be called out for not responding, and less of these fights will happen.

Morris Wanchuk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-10-2011, 10:52 AM
  #48
bonzaibondra12
Registered User
 
bonzaibondra12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Rockville, MD
Posts: 1,882
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ramonajams View Post
You're right, it doesn't matter. It was a nice hit and Chimera should have got an instigator.

This thread is about fights following clean hits. Try and keep up.
Did you see where I said I agree with the thought, but this incident wasn't one. laich leaves a drop pass behind him, Schenn hits him, Chimera hits back Schenn drops the gloves first.

Maybe if the guy doesn't make multiple Caps player hate threads at one time, then I wouldn't jump on him. Try to read next time.

bonzaibondra12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-10-2011, 11:07 AM
  #49
Paris in Flames
Registered User
 
Paris in Flames's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,105
vCash: 500
To the people saying Schenn isnt a good fighter, you're right. He's not.

To the people saying that Schenn couldn't have done solid damage because he's not a great fighter...well. I think you're wrong.

I think people are saying that he could've done damage are saying it because Schenn easily overpowered Chimera and tossed him down. It's not that of they stood up and threw them, Schenn would TKO him with ease. It's that for a couple seconds, Schenn had him in a vulnerable position and probably could've landed a couple solid shots Chimera wouldn't have even seen coming.

Paris in Flames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-10-2011, 11:14 AM
  #50
Namikaze Minato
Registered User
 
Namikaze Minato's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Beautiful B.C.
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,035
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paris in Flames View Post
To the people saying Schenn isnt a good fighter, you're right. He's not.

To the people saying that Schenn couldn't have done solid damage because he's not a great fighter...well. I think you're wrong.

I think people are saying that he could've done damage are saying it because Schenn easily overpowered Chimera and tossed him down. It's not that of they stood up and threw them, Schenn would TKO him with ease. It's that for a couple seconds, Schenn had him in a vulnerable position and probably could've landed a couple solid shots Chimera wouldn't have even seen coming.
That makes a lot more sense. He did seem to catch chimera off guard with using his strength quite quickly.

Namikaze Minato is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:48 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2017 All Rights Reserved.