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Who would you rather see traded?

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Old
12-16-2011, 02:24 AM
  #126
RGY
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Originally Posted by Kel Varnsen View Post
28 games negate the previous 316 for you? Or have you just started watching?
I dont wanna hear about Dubinsky's previous 316. I love Dubinsky but at some point you need to stop cutting the guy so much slack because he is homegrown, blue collar, and fits the system as well as ideal fan favorite. I really do love his character but this is getting ridiculous.

I didn't complain once or call him greedy when he was being a stickler about his contract. But this guy really hasn't shown a pattern that would suggest he's going to breakout anytime soon to deserve that contract. He's averaged roughly 45 points the last 4 seasons. That's hardly anything spectacular. But you know what I was ok with the $4million/yr because he offers a solid two-way game to go along with those 45 points to somewhat justify the contract. But cmon, 1 Goal through 29 games? That's absurd after signing off on a brand new deal. He put up 24 Goals last year when he was due for a new contract. And the 1 goal wouldnt bother me as much if he was getting good chances and coming close. He hasnt come close at all the last few weeks. He had a couple good chances tonight but he is completely missing the net. He's making rushes up ice similar to scott gomez and missing the net with his shot. He just doesnt look like the same player he was last year. He's not diggin hard enough to get one in the back of the twine. He's not getting any garbage goals. He's getting nothing.

At least AA has been progressing each year and thus far this year he has blossomed. You cant say Dubinsky didnt have the same opportunity to play with Gaborik because he had at times. If you can get a player like Bobby Ryan who is a game changer because of his scoring ability then you have to seriously consider dealing dubinsky. I'll tell you right now there is no way Ryan misses the net as bad as Dubinsky did in the 3rd period tonight. Not a chance.

EDIT: He is also pretty much on pace to have the least amount of SOG in his career for a single-season. He had 202 SOG last year when he scored 24 goals. Maybe he should shoot the puck more. Or maybe he'd have 10-20 more SOG if he was hitting the net. Who knows. But something needs to change. I say bench him to give him a wake up call because demoting him in the lineup hasnt done jack


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12-16-2011, 04:08 AM
  #127
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I'll just point out that he's on pace for about 40 points, if he doesn't pick it up.

It's low, but he makes a difference, even if he's not the one putting it in the net.

I AGREE. IT'S NOT GOOD ENOUGH. But lets agree that he is doing EVERYTHING but scoring.

Maybe he'll have a few hat tricks against some lotto teams, and then disappear for a while.

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12-16-2011, 06:30 AM
  #128
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Hind sights 20/20 but letting Dubi walk , buying out WW and bringing in Erik Cole to play with Brad would have been nice . Really thought Dubi was going to become a true power forward . He talks , dresses , and carries himself like a next level player but doesn't play like one . Ditch the Bieber do fancy clothes , shave your head and drop the mitts against a guy like BACKES or Oshi as the wreaked havoc on the NYR last night if you can't get in the score sheet .
BYE BYE BIEBER !!!!

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12-16-2011, 08:36 AM
  #129
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This didn't start with Dubi's slump for me. I've wanted him gone for years.

I love the guy and think he always gives 110%, but felt like he could always be a piece to bring back a better player. I thought he topped out last year with his production, and while I hope I'm wrong he just doesn't seem to be making as much of an offensive impact this year. Yes I know he has been placed on the 4th line and that doesn't help.

My worry is who is going to want him now? He would have been much more valuable while he was producing.

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12-16-2011, 08:49 AM
  #130
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Originally Posted by RGY View Post
I dont wanna hear about Dubinsky's previous 316. I love Dubinsky but at some point you need to stop cutting the guy so much slack because he is homegrown, blue collar, and fits the system as well as ideal fan favorite. I really do love his character but this is getting ridiculous.

I didn't complain once or call him greedy when he was being a stickler about his contract. But this guy really hasn't shown a pattern that would suggest he's going to breakout anytime soon to deserve that contract. He's averaged roughly 45 points the last 4 seasons. That's hardly anything spectacular. But you know what I was ok with the $4million/yr because he offers a solid two-way game to go along with those 45 points to somewhat justify the contract. But cmon, 1 Goal through 29 games? That's absurd after signing off on a brand new deal. He put up 24 Goals last year when he was due for a new contract. And the 1 goal wouldnt bother me as much if he was getting good chances and coming close. He hasnt come close at all the last few weeks. He had a couple good chances tonight but he is completely missing the net. He's making rushes up ice similar to scott gomez and missing the net with his shot. He just doesnt look like the same player he was last year. He's not diggin hard enough to get one in the back of the twine. He's not getting any garbage goals. He's getting nothing.

At least AA has been progressing each year and thus far this year he has blossomed. You cant say Dubinsky didnt have the same opportunity to play with Gaborik because he had at times. If you can get a player like Bobby Ryan who is a game changer because of his scoring ability then you have to seriously consider dealing dubinsky. I'll tell you right now there is no way Ryan misses the net as bad as Dubinsky did in the 3rd period tonight. Not a chance.

EDIT: He is also pretty much on pace to have the least amount of SOG in his career for a single-season. He had 202 SOG last year when he scored 24 goals. Maybe he should shoot the puck more. Or maybe he'd have 10-20 more SOG if he was hitting the net. Who knows. But something needs to change. I say bench him to give him a wake up call because demoting him in the lineup hasnt done jack
You know what you sound like in this post? A whiner. Just a lot of incessant whining.

Im not going to sit here and argue that Dubinsky is playing anywhere near well. He isnt. But theres two factors at play here that make the whining and catcalls for trading him WORTHLESS.

1. Absolutely noone wanted to trade him just last season when he led the team in goals, assists, and points. He was part of the core back then, an important piece going forward. A lot of people coming out of the woodwork saying we should've let him walk or how they wish he was gone a long time ago. Funny how it wasnt mentioned before this slump. Complaints like that are based in hindsight of the last 2 months, undisciplined as a fan, and -most of all- cheap.

2. Perhaps most importantly, these same whiners seem to have absolutely no ability to gauge player value. Dubinsky has stunk these last 2 months, Im not arguing against that. But what are these people smoking to think that Dubinsky, at his absolute lowpoint in value, can be a centerpiece for Bobby Ryan or any other talent thats going to help us immediately? Chances are much, much, MUCH higher that he breaks out of the funk and starts playing well. Its unbelievable that people waste their time on such pipedreams.

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12-16-2011, 08:50 AM
  #131
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Originally Posted by KennyWu View Post
This didn't start with Dubi's slump for me. I've wanted him gone for years.

I love the guy and think he always gives 110%, but felt like he could always be a piece to bring back a better player. I thought he topped out last year with his production, and while I hope I'm wrong he just doesn't seem to be making as much of an offensive impact this year. Yes I know he has been placed on the 4th line and that doesn't help.

My worry is who is going to want him now? He would have been much more valuable while he was producing.
I see that you've been on this board for over a year. If you can bring up a post where you called for getting rid of Dubinsky prior to the last 2 months, then kudos to you.

If you cant, you're just another hindsight-aided whiner that I described above.

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12-16-2011, 09:24 AM
  #132
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For those of you who want Dubinsky gone, you might as well wait until he heats up because there's no sense in trading him while his value is at an all-time low.

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12-16-2011, 10:27 AM
  #133
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Depends on the package, depends on the return, depends depends depends, it's all hypothetical because in the end, everyone is tradeable.

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12-16-2011, 11:08 AM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
You know what you sound like in this post? A whiner. Just a lot of incessant whining.

Im not going to sit here and argue that Dubinsky is playing anywhere near well. He isnt. But theres two factors at play here that make the whining and catcalls for trading him WORTHLESS.

1. Absolutely noone wanted to trade him just last season when he led the team in goals, assists, and points. He was part of the core back then, an important piece going forward. A lot of people coming out of the woodwork saying we should've let him walk or how they wish he was gone a long time ago. Funny how it wasnt mentioned before this slump. Complaints like that are based in hindsight of the last 2 months, undisciplined as a fan, and -most of all- cheap.

2. Perhaps most importantly, these same whiners seem to have absolutely no ability to gauge player value. Dubinsky has stunk these last 2 months, Im not arguing against that. But what are these people smoking to think that Dubinsky, at his absolute lowpoint in value, can be a centerpiece for Bobby Ryan or any other talent thats going to help us immediately? Chances are much, much, MUCH higher that he breaks out of the funk and starts playing well. Its unbelievable that people waste their time on such pipedreams.
Er, I've been pretty consistent in wanting to trade him for at least two years now. I've always felt that his actual value was lower than his perceived value and I wanted to trade him while I felt it was high. Not that this is something necessarily to gloat about - I'm obviously unhappy that he's playing as poorly as he is given that the team decided to keep him.

And while I would still like to trade him as the centerpiece for a Bobby Ryan, at this point it's pretty clear that he's going to have to snap out of his funk before he'll be able to play a meaningful role in a transaction of that kind. I just hope that when he does, we move him rather than holding on to him.

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12-16-2011, 11:11 AM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Kel Varnsen View Post
28 games negate the previous 316 for you? Or have you just started watching?
knock it off loyal larry, do i have to show you my NYR fan membership card now? 18+ ok? Haven't missed a game since the lockout. how about you?

if this keeps up we can give Duby a chicken outfit and he'll become the team mascot. $4m for a guy who's 29g in with 1g? don't give me this hard work BS! Again if the guy has personal issues going on, i wholeheartedly apologize.

This team needs a Patrick Sharp or two. consistent 25-30g guys.
enough with lunch pail grinders that can't score.

goodbye Duby and goodbye Boyle. most likely they'll have no trade value and will play out the season, but we'd be crazy not to move duby in a package for Ryan if the opportunity presents itself.

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12-16-2011, 11:15 AM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
You know what you sound like in this post? A whiner. Just a lot of incessant whining.

Im not going to sit here and argue that Dubinsky is playing anywhere near well. He isnt. But theres two factors at play here that make the whining and catcalls for trading him WORTHLESS.

1. Absolutely noone wanted to trade him just last season when he led the team in goals, assists, and points. He was part of the core back then, an important piece going forward. A lot of people coming out of the woodwork saying we should've let him walk or how they wish he was gone a long time ago. Funny how it wasnt mentioned before this slump. Complaints like that are based in hindsight of the last 2 months, undisciplined as a fan, and -most of all- cheap.

2. Perhaps most importantly, these same whiners seem to have absolutely no ability to gauge player value. Dubinsky has stunk these last 2 months, Im not arguing against that. But what are these people smoking to think that Dubinsky, at his absolute lowpoint in value, can be a centerpiece for Bobby Ryan or any other talent thats going to help us immediately? Chances are much, much, MUCH higher that he breaks out of the funk and starts playing well. Its unbelievable that people waste their time on such pipedreams.
Whining? WTF are you talking about? That's whining because I like the player but he's playing like crap? Get real. I think your perception of whining is skewed. Maybe if you had basic reading comprehension skills you;d understand that I'm not advocating trading dubinsky, but rather suggesting just consider trading him for a guy like Ryan.

And undisciplined? He wasnt worth the money he got. That's the bottom line. But if you could read I did say that didnt bother me. If you want to try and justify $4 million/ year for a guy who averages 45 points a year then go ahead but you're going to sound ridiculous. He has been inconsistent every year as a ranger with his production. He disappears a lot from the scoresheet. But like I said that doesnt bother me because he brings other things to the table, albeit still not worth $4million but lets leave that off the table with the point hopefully made to you. Dubinsky is playing like **** and he's not bringing those other things to the table. He is not playing with that snarl, he is not playing mean, he doesnt look as aggressive on the forecheck, he's not throwing his body around as much as or as physically as he usually does. He looks slower out there as well. The guy is playing horrible and the way he missed the net last night is simply a culmination of how bad he has been this season.

And I like Dubinsky a lot. So dont call me a ****ing whiner for being realistic. Yeah his value is low but so is Ryan's right now. It's a change of scenery for both. Ryan is a 30 goal scorer which we need. Dubinsky is a redundant part on this team. That's the point. Again, am I advocating trading Dubinsky? NO, I'M NOT. I hope you can read that. I am advocating improving the team if the right deal comes along.

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12-16-2011, 11:48 AM
  #137
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Whining? WTF are you talking about? That's whining because I like the player but he's playing like crap? Get real. I think your perception of whining is skewed. Maybe if you had basic reading comprehension skills you;d understand that I'm not advocating trading dubinsky, but rather suggesting just consider trading him for a guy like Ryan.

And undisciplined? He wasnt worth the money he got. That's the bottom line. But if you could read I did say that didnt bother me. If you want to try and justify $4 million/ year for a guy who averages 45 points a year then go ahead but you're going to sound ridiculous. He has been inconsistent every year as a ranger with his production. He disappears a lot from the scoresheet. But like I said that doesnt bother me because he brings other things to the table, albeit still not worth $4million but lets leave that off the table with the point hopefully made to you. Dubinsky is playing like **** and he's not bringing those other things to the table. He is not playing with that snarl, he is not playing mean, he doesnt look as aggressive on the forecheck, he's not throwing his body around as much as or as physically as he usually does. He looks slower out there as well. The guy is playing horrible and the way he missed the net last night is simply a culmination of how bad he has been this season.

And I like Dubinsky a lot. So dont call me a ****ing whiner for being realistic. Yeah his value is low but so is Ryan's right now. It's a change of scenery for both. Ryan is a 30 goal scorer which we need. Dubinsky is a redundant part on this team. That's the point. Again, am I advocating trading Dubinsky? NO, I'M NOT. I hope you can read that. I am advocating improving the team if the right deal comes along.

excellent post. you have total command of this situation here.
it's too bad many don't read and understand what another poster is saying before they reply.

4m is alot for a consistent 22g/50p forward let alone a streaky one that's regressing

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12-16-2011, 12:06 PM
  #138
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I'll just point out that he's on pace for about 40 points, if he doesn't pick it up.

It's low, but he makes a difference, even if he's not the one putting it in the net.

I AGREE. IT'S NOT GOOD ENOUGH. But lets agree that he is doing EVERYTHING but scoring.

Maybe he'll have a few hat tricks against some lotto teams, and then disappear for a while.
I couldn't possibly agree with that. He's invisible on most nights. PKing has been decent, and he got into it with Lecavalier, etc, when Artie did his Vassili Zaitsev impression, but other than that he's not bringing what he needs to bring to the table.

The issue is that he's been identified as a piece of the "core" and most fans are really big supporters of him, so it makes the justification for a trade all the more difficult to come by.

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12-16-2011, 12:13 PM
  #139
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I couldn't possibly agree with that. He's invisible on most nights. PKing has been decent, and he got into it with Lecavalier, etc, when Artie did his Vassili Zaitsev impression, but other than that he's not bringing what he needs to bring to the table.

The issue is that he's been identified as a piece of the "core" and most fans are really big supporters of him, so it makes the justification for a trade all the more difficult to come by.
Its not that trading him would be the end of the world, but if its a lateral trade, then what's the point?

If he's THE main piece in a trade for Bobby Ryan, then that's fine.

If he's traded for Derick Brassard, that's awful asset management, unless Brassard breaks out like gang busters.

If he's only a part of a huge package for Bobby Ryan, that wouldn't be wise, either. We shouldn't overpay.

If the two main parts moving are Dubinsky and Ryan that's a no brainer.

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12-16-2011, 12:40 PM
  #140
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Its not that trading him would be the end of the world, but if its a lateral trade, then what's the point?

If he's THE main piece in a trade for Bobby Ryan, then that's fine.

If he's traded for Derick Brassard, that's awful asset management, unless Brassard breaks out like gang busters.

If he's only a part of a huge package for Bobby Ryan, that wouldn't be wise, either. We shouldn't overpay.

If the two main parts moving are Dubinsky and Ryan that's a no brainer.
In all likelihood, he'd only be traded to find a sniper to play with Richards and Callahan. You add that dimension to the team, plus the hopeful return of Staal and Sauer, and that team could make a deep run, IMO. However, if you're moving Dubinsky, you're almost certainly going to get a similar contract back, and how many times can we shuffle around big contracts if whatever player we bring in has little chemistry with Richards? It's a tough gamble to make.

There are a few guys out there I'd be willing to trade him for. However, I'm sure it's more likely that the Rangers keep him, and somewhere along the lines he goes on a tear and winds up around 15-20 goals for the year. Then we'll see the same situation repeat it self next year, just as we always do. Richards has his banger on his line, what he really could use is a guy who can pop the water bottle on a regular basis.

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12-16-2011, 12:50 PM
  #141
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The question is who is the likeliest player to be traded, not counting inconsequential players like Christensen, Eminger, Woywitka, etc. The answer to that has to be Dubinsky, and it's important because you have to believe they're going to look to make some kind of deal this year.

You can't make an argument to trade any of the other players, at least not based on their current play. It's Dubinsky and Boyle, guys who are not playing all that well and not contributing much on the ice.

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12-16-2011, 01:04 PM
  #142
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The question is who is the likeliest player to be traded, not counting inconsequential players like Christensen, Eminger, Woywitka, etc. The answer to that has to be Dubinsky, and it's important because you have to believe they're going to look to make some kind of deal this year.

You can't make an argument to trade any of the other players, at least not based on their current play. It's Dubinsky and Boyle, guys who are not playing all that well and not contributing much on the ice.
They didn't trade Gabby, and he was worse last year.

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12-16-2011, 01:19 PM
  #143
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They didn't trade Gabby, and he was worse last year.
Totally different situations. Much better team this year, with a chance to make some noise in the playoffs. I'm not suggesting they'd make a deal simply because Dubinsky is struggling, but because they're going to look to upgrade the team.

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12-16-2011, 01:58 PM
  #144
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In all likelihood, he'd only be traded to find a sniper to play with Richards and Callahan. You add that dimension to the team, plus the hopeful return of Staal and Sauer, and that team could make a deep run, IMO. However, if you're moving Dubinsky, you're almost certainly going to get a similar contract back, and how many times can we shuffle around big contracts if whatever player we bring in has little chemistry with Richards? It's a tough gamble to make.

There are a few guys out there I'd be willing to trade him for. However, I'm sure it's more likely that the Rangers keep him, and somewhere along the lines he goes on a tear and winds up around 15-20 goals for the year. Then we'll see the same situation repeat it self next year, just as we always do. Richards has his banger on his line, what he really could use is a guy who can pop the water bottle on a regular basis.
Well, Ryan is that guy.

Ryan's cap hit: 5.1
Dubi's cap hit: 4.2

So you can package Dubinsky (with Dubi being the main piece in the package) and make a smaller deal or waive someone to add some cap space.

Its a logical fit.

But, who knows if its realistic, dependent on what Anaheim expects to receive.

As long as we aren't moving any of our core defensemen (Staal, Girardi, McDonagh, Sauer, Del Zotto), not moving our core forwards (Stepan, Callahan, Richards, Gaborik, Anisimov, Hagelin), and not moving our big three in the system (Kreider, Miller, McIlrath).

If a package consisting of a combination of some of:

Dubinsky

Erixon, St. Croix, McColgan, Thomas, Fasth, Fogarty, Valentenko

2012 1st, 2013 1st

...isn't enough, then I don't feel its worth it. That's a heck of a package for one guy. Anaheim could build nicely with a handful of those.

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12-16-2011, 02:07 PM
  #145
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I dont wanna hear about Dubinsky's previous 316. I love Dubinsky but at some point you need to stop cutting the guy so much slack because he is homegrown, blue collar, and fits the system as well as ideal fan favorite. I really do love his character but this is getting ridiculous.
Pretty typical. Very short sighted.

There are 53 games left in the season, plus the playoffs and folks are ready to hit the eject button on Dubi?

Seriously?

One of the few players we have that has the size, skill and physical game the team other wise lacks. No chance he might rebound with the time left and have a huge role in a deep play off run?

The first major slump in an other wise solid, home grown career as a Ranger. It's time to trash, then trade a key franchise figure....who's 25?

Really?

He was pretty good last night dude. That pass to Dizzy was pretty sweet.

This and many similar posts is what has at least partially convinced me that Rangers fans will never have a consistent Cup contender to root for. It's good that the Rangers fly so far under the New York sports radar. I think it really helps keep the org. from making rash moves.

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12-16-2011, 02:14 PM
  #146
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They didn't trade Gabby, and he was worse last year.
He's also far more expensive in terms of contract as well as asking price via trade, and is a proven 40 goal scorer.

Torts loves Dubinsky, which is why he's been given the benefit of the doubt thus far. However, his ice time is dwindling with each game, and it's only a matter of time before we see him spend a game or two in the press box. Being good in the dot and a regular PKer will only earn you so much of a cushion before people start realizing you're in need of a change.

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12-16-2011, 02:44 PM
  #147
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Pretty typical. Very short sighted.

The first major slump in an other wise solid, home grown career as a Ranger. It's time to trash, then trade a key franchise figure....who's 25?
This is the fifth season in a career that has, by and large, been marred by inconsistency. A major slump is not really the case here. He's been an inconsistent player for most of his career so far, and you have to hope that at some point, that's going to change. Inconsistency is not conducive to winning, especially when inconsistency is paired with an identity crisis, which is the case with this player.

Last season, the hope was that he was finally turning the corner when it came to his role, to consistency issues. But now it's the same old Dubinsky. You can't win when you have niches in your lineup that are not being filled consistently. So how many seasons is this guy supposed to get to figure it out?

You want to talk about Ranger fans and their faults. This is the same board where many, many people have spent much of the last 2-3 years proclaiming that Dubinsky was a better player than Callahan. It was a preposterous notion then, and it's a preposterous notion today.

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12-16-2011, 03:30 PM
  #148
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
He's also far more expensive in terms of contract as well as asking price via trade, and is a proven 40 goal scorer.

Torts loves Dubinsky, which is why he's been given the benefit of the doubt thus far. However, his ice time is dwindling with each game, and it's only a matter of time before we see him spend a game or two in the press box. Being good in the dot and a regular PKer will only earn you so much of a cushion before people start realizing you're in need of a change.
Stop and think about that for a second. You're throwing it out there as if it's a reason for us to like Dubi less. "Torts loves him, if he didn't he'd be getting less time." You're forgetting that there are reasons Torts loves him. And it's not because Dubi holds the door open for him or offer's his coat for him when he's cold. Torts "loves" Dubi because Dubi is a Torts kind of guy. He grinds. When he's going he brings a solid amount of offensive skill, he's still showing the passing part of it now. The scoring will come, just like for Gaborik it came back this year.

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12-16-2011, 04:20 PM
  #149
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I'd rather trade Gaborik and a 1st for Bobby Ryan. Dubinsky embodies this teams identity. He rides shotgun to Captain Cally, when he's on. This year so far is an aberration. His career to this point, while inconsistent production-wise, has always been a positive one with regards to hitting, forechecking, and let's not forget he was our best forward the last two playoff series we were in. He has the ability to step up when the games get tougher, unlike Gaborik who becomes even more tentative and soft. I'd rather rid ourselves of gaboriks contract, and replace him with the adequately paid Ryan. I'd give up a first rounder and even a decent prospect to get it done. We'd end up being a much better team as early as right away, but definitely next year and beyond.

Ryan Richards Callahan
Hagelin Stepan Dubinsky
Fedotenko Anisimov Mitchell
Rupp Boyle Prust
Avery


Then next year, with Wolski and Avery off the books, Dru's hit dropping, and the 2.5 million saved from replacing Gaborik with Ryan, we could easily sign either Suter or Parise to a lucrative deal and bring back Fedotenko, Prust, and Del Zotto. Everyone else is signed for at least another year after this one? Anisimov, Stepan, McDonagh, Sauer, Hagelin are all RFAs after NEXT season.

Potential lineup for next season if we traded Gaborik, Thomas/Zuccarello, 1st for Ryan this season:

Ryan Richards Callahan
Parise Stepan Kreider
Hagelin Anisimov Dubinsky
Fedotenko/Rupp Boyle Prust

Staal Sauer
McDonagh Girardi
Del Zotto Erixon
McIlrath as a call-up

OR

Ryan Richards Callahan
Hagelin Stepan Kreider
Dubinsky Anisimov Miller/Zuccarello/Thomas/Mitchell
Fedotenko/Rupp Boyle Prust

Staal Suter
McDonagh Girardi
Del Zotto Sauer
Erixon
McIlrath


Those lineups are a lot better than any with Gaborik.

Ryan > Gaborik
Ryan at 5 mil >>>>> Gaborik at 7.5

It's really not even debatable, IMO.

I just hope Anaheim is enamored by gaboriks speed and would accept that deal.

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Old
12-16-2011, 04:25 PM
  #150
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Wow.

Dubinsky isn't in the same stratosphere as Gaborik in terms of value/ability. Adding Ryan for Dubinsky++ adds even more top-notch offense to the club. Not to mention that Gaborik is better than Ryan, so Gaborik/1st for Ryan is horrendous and hurts the team tremendously.

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