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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, NHL revenues, relocation and expansion.

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09-23-2004, 12:11 AM
  #26
Jack Canuck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch
Point taken, but it does in fact work both ways. Higher salaries leads to the owners needing more revenue to shell out to the players, thus higher ticket prices. The use of college sports is a horrible example, as the ticket prices go to the school, which in turn pays for the kids scholarships as well as many other school funds.
Remember though that if they raise the price of tickets less people will come. The owners look for an equilibrium that will fill as many seats as possible for the highest price possible irregardless of what the players make.

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09-23-2004, 12:12 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by jpsharkfan
Do you really believe that?

You bet your bottom dollor they care, or actually their bottom dollor!

The NHLPA and its members should love Bettman and the Owners as they have made them all very very wealthy.

It is us, the fans who should be angry with Bettman and the Owners as they are to blame for letting the NHL's finances get to this ugly place that cannot be fixed without drastic measures. At least Bettman and the Owners have the courage to admit that they created this situation......unlike the players and the NHLPA who's answers would not be acceptable from a 5 year old. "Its not my fault, I did not cause the problem."
ask matt cooke who got wealthy

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09-23-2004, 12:13 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Jack Canuck
Remember though that if they raise the price of tickets less people will come. The owners look for an equilibrium that will fill as many seats as possible for the highest price possible irregardless of what the players make.
- i know its very painful - goodenow and linden both said - its supply and demand - you guys are the idiots who pay 500 bux to see the eagles - or better yet the merdeces corp who pay elton john a million for 40 minutes - they want the impasse so they can break the union and cut ticket prices in half -

mark cuban - 1040 vancouver


Last edited by mr gib: 09-23-2004 at 12:18 AM.
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09-23-2004, 12:16 AM
  #29
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Matt Cooke is one of the lowest paid players in the NHL, don't even try to say that he wouldn't say that he's part of the problem because he's not. He doesn't get paid $9 million to look pretty. He gets paid less then a million to do all the grunt work, and you are trying to put sole blame on one player? If you're doing that then, I'll put blame on Joe Sakic, Jamoir Jagr, and Eric Lindros. Those are the players you can blame for being wealthy beyond belief, not Matt Cooke who doesn't even get enough that he deserves.

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09-23-2004, 12:19 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by MooseHunter
Matt Cooke is one of the lowest paid players in the NHL, don't even try to say that he wouldn't say that he's part of the problem because he's not. He doesn't get paid $9 million to look pretty. He gets paid less then a million to do all the grunt work, and you are trying to put sole blame on one player? If you're doing that then, I'll put blame on Joe Sakic, Jamoir Jagr, and Eric Lindros. Those are the players you can blame for being wealthy beyond belief, not Matt Cooke who doesn't even get enough that he deserves.
ya get what ya get the market rools - ask bryden and daigle - everyone of us would take an absurd raise if we could -

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09-23-2004, 12:26 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by MooseHunter
Matt Cooke is one of the lowest paid players in the NHL, don't even try to say that he wouldn't say that he's part of the problem because he's not. He doesn't get paid $9 million to look pretty. He gets paid less then a million to do all the grunt work, and you are trying to put sole blame on one player? If you're doing that then, I'll put blame on Joe Sakic, Jamoir Jagr, and Eric Lindros. Those are the players you can blame for being wealthy beyond belief, not Matt Cooke who doesn't even get enough that he deserves.
the canucks made 45 mill in two years - who's screwing who - matt cooke

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09-23-2004, 12:26 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by mr gib
150 nhlers playing in europe right now - the cbc show had a good point though - from a sheer animosity level - there may be hockey this year - cause in the playoffs the owners get paid - they will split 100 mil - the players get a small bonus for each round won -
Doesnt that make you angry? They refuse to make less money to play in the NHL but are playing in Europe and elsewhere for what is often pennies on the $. Talk about a slap in the fans face!

Granted, not all the players got extremely wealthy under the current CBA. Even the "under" payed players earned much more as a NHLer than they could have doing anything else! Those players are the ones currently being harmed by their unions position. They have not earned millions and millions of dollors that will hold them through a long work stopage. The union is not looking to protect those players. The union is looking to protect the big ticket players. It is the big ticket players who are allowing the union and the agents to laugh all the way to the bank!

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09-23-2004, 12:28 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Chelios
Or minimizing loss.

We are not saying that ticket prices and salaries have a perect and direct correlation, but anyone with any type of common sense would agree that there is a loose relationship between player salaries and ticket prices (except for Bobby boy who says there is absolutely no relationship at all). I am actually surprised how people can try to defend the pathetic spectacle Goodenow put on this evening.
I'm on the owners side, but ticket prices and players salaries have nothing to do with each other. Ask any Owner if they are going to commit to lowering ticket prices when they get the deal they want and I bet not one will do so.

It is simple. There is a price that people are willing to pay to watch the average game. If owners charge more they lose customers, if they charge less they have a surplus of demand and could be charging more.

Very simple! This does not change as players salaries change, because this is a business and they are always trying to make as much as possible, or in some cases lose as little as possible.

You may percive a change when your teem brings in a Jagr and pays him a lot more, because the owners simply anticipate that people are willing to pay more to see their big star so they may decide to raise prices. Similarly, if their stars (and high wages) leave, they may drop prices to keep fans coming.

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09-23-2004, 12:36 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by mr gib
ya get what ya get the market rools - ask bryden and daigle - everyone of us would take an absurd raise if we could -
And the players did! They took those absurd raises and more power to them. But that time has come to an end and instead of accepting that, being thrilled with what they got, they demand the absurdity continue. It is time to wake up and face reality. The sport they say they play for "the love of the game" is dying and they are the only ones who can stop the bleeding. Instead of stopping the bleeding their defense of their position is that they did not cause the wound; why should they help it heal. I do not blame the players, as a whole I think they are smarter than that. I blame the union.

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09-23-2004, 12:40 AM
  #35
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Already been done. The Caps raised their ticket prices right after Jagr came to town, guess what, ticket prices have been LOWERED now that he's gone. They knew that people weren't going to renew season ticks with the team they had on the ice at the end of the season.

*On topic, yeah Goodenaw is a jackhole. I'd score this as a PR win for the owners.

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09-23-2004, 12:47 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by jpsharkfan
And the players did! They took those absurd raises and more power to them. But that time has come to an end and instead of accepting that, being thrilled with what they got, they demand the absurdity continue. It is time to wake up and face reality. The sport they say they play for "the love of the game" is dying and they are the only ones who can stop the bleeding. Instead of stopping the bleeding their defense of their position is that they did not cause the wound; why should they help it heal. I do not blame the players, as a whole I think they are smarter than that. I blame the union.
Well said, and the further this goes the more I am convinced that the owners will be win this thing. Just look at the fan support in the poll on this board almost 80% for the owners! I've seen other polls with very similar numbers. Now Bob has this horrible appearance. I think unless Bob turns the tide somehow, or Bettman screws up, the player support for the union will begin to erode, and they will just hope they can get the 1.3 mill mentioned earlier.

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09-23-2004, 12:50 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by jpsharkfan
Doesnt that make you angry? They refuse to make less money to play in the NHL but are playing in Europe and elsewhere for what is often pennies on the $. Talk about a slap in the fans face!

Granted, not all the players got extremely wealthy under the current CBA. Even the "under" payed players earned much more as a NHLer than they could have doing anything else! Those players are the ones currently being harmed by their unions position. They have not earned millions and millions of dollors that will hold them through a long work stopage. The union is not looking to protect those players. The union is looking to protect the big ticket players. It is the big ticket players who are allowing the union and the agents to laugh all the way to the bank!
thats why matt cooke just changed agents

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09-23-2004, 12:50 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by IafrateWasGod
Already been done. The Caps raised their ticket prices right after Jagr came to town, guess what, ticket prices have been LOWERED now that he's gone. They knew that people weren't going to renew season ticks with the team they had on the ice at the end of the season.
That is exactly what I said. Ticket prices are not related to player salary they are related to how bad the fan wants to go watch the game.

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09-23-2004, 12:52 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Jack Canuck
I'm on the owners side, but ticket prices and players salaries have nothing to do with each other. Ask any Owner if they are going to commit to lowering ticket prices when they get the deal they want and I bet not one will do so.

It is simple. There is a price that people are willing to pay to watch the average game. If owners charge more they lose customers, if they charge less they have a surplus of demand and could be charging more.

Very simple! This does not change as players salaries change, because this is a business and they are always trying to make as much as possible, or in some cases lose as little as possible.

You may percive a change when your teem brings in a Jagr and pays him a lot more, because the owners simply anticipate that people are willing to pay more to see their big star so they may decide to raise prices. Similarly, if their stars (and high wages) leave, they may drop prices to keep fans coming.
thats only half the question - they can market jagr and make even more - however since 94 - sorry
1940 - the owners just won't do it - aka a rod and tiger woods -

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09-23-2004, 12:55 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by jpsharkfan
Doesnt that make you angry? They refuse to make less money to play in the NHL but are playing in Europe and elsewhere for what is often pennies on the $. Talk about a slap in the fans face!

Granted, not all the players got extremely wealthy under the current CBA. Even the "under" payed players earned much more as a NHLer than they could have doing anything else! Those players are the ones currently being harmed by their unions position. They have not earned millions and millions of dollors that will hold them through a long work stopage. The union is not looking to protect those players. The union is looking to protect the big ticket players. It is the big ticket players who are allowing the union and the agents to laugh all the way to the bank!
however both gary and bob don't want any contraction

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09-23-2004, 12:57 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Jack Canuck
Well said, and the further this goes the more I am convinced that the owners will be win this thing. Just look at the fan support in the poll on this board almost 80% for the owners! I've seen other polls with very similar numbers. Now Bob has this horrible appearance. I think unless Bob turns the tide somehow, or Bettman screws up, the player support for the union will begin to erode, and they will just hope they can get the 1.3 mill mentioned earlier.
i agree the owners will win - a new cba will be written - if there is no playoffs this year - however you guys talk outta both sides of your mouth - they don't give a **** about the fans -
its all about the corporate ****** - mlb - nba - and the nfl


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09-23-2004, 12:58 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by IafrateWasGod
*On topic, yeah Goodenaw is a jackhole. I'd score this as a PR win for the owners.

So far the NHL has shut out the NHLPA in the PR department. Going into this whole mess, I thought nobody could do a worse job at PR than the NHL. Boy, was I ever wrong! The NHLPA has got bad PR down to a science, they simply could not be worse. I am shocked that they have not brought in a PR specialist to do emergency damage control.......but than again the NHLPA has dug its head so deep in the sand to avoid having to deal with reality they probably have no idea that every time they open their mouths they gain support for the league!

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09-23-2004, 01:00 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by jpsharkfan
So far the NHL has shut out the NHLPA in the PR department. Going into this whole mess, I thought nobody could do a worse job at PR than the NHL. Boy, was I ever wrong! The NHLPA has got bad PR down to a science, they simply could not be worse. I am shocked that they have not brought in a PR specialist to do emergency damage control.......but than again the NHLPA has dug its head so deep in the sand to avoid having to deal with reality they probably have no idea that every time they open their mouths they gain support for the league!
well said - its about screwing bettman and the owners - case closed

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09-23-2004, 01:00 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by jpsharkfan
Granted, not all the players got extremely wealthy under the current CBA. Even the "under" payed players earned much more as a NHLer than they could have doing anything else! Those players are the ones currently being harmed by their unions position. They have not earned millions and millions of dollors that will hold them through a long work stopage. The union is not looking to protect those players. The union is looking to protect the big ticket players. It is the big ticket players who are allowing the union and the agents to laugh all the way to the bank!
One might argue that in a hard cap world it's the 3rd/4th line and 4-7 D, back up goalies, who see their salaries drop so teams can still fit the difference makers into their lineup. If that's the case the union may well still be looking after the rank and file, although missing a season sure doesn't help the guy who has a 4 year career much now, it doesn't help him much either if his salary is chopped in half heading forward either.

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09-23-2004, 01:03 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by speeds
One might argue that in a hard cap world it's the 3rd/4th line and 4-7 D, back up goalies, who see their salaries drop so teams can still fit the difference makers into their lineup. If that's the case the union may well still be looking after the rank and file, although missing a season sure doesn't help the guy who has a 4 year career much now, it doesn't help him much either if his salary is chopped in half heading forward either.
you are exactly right - and bettman is looking after the crappy teams -

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09-23-2004, 01:10 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by speeds
One might argue that in a hard cap world it's the 3rd/4th line and 4-7 D, back up goalies, who see their salaries drop so teams can still fit the difference makers into their lineup. If that's the case the union may well still be looking after the rank and file, although missing a season sure doesn't help the guy who has a 4 year career much now, it doesn't help him much either if his salary is chopped in half heading forward either.
That may be true on the teams that believe they can get by largely with their top 2 lines. However other teams will likely spread the weath a bit more to have maybe 3 or 4 solid lines. That will all be part of the management strategies. A team is just that, a team. Only one or two good lines may not be enough to compete all season.

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09-23-2004, 01:15 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by speeds
One might argue that in a hard cap world it's the 3rd/4th line and 4-7 D, back up goalies, who see their salaries drop so teams can still fit the difference makers into their lineup. If that's the case the union may well still be looking after the rank and file, although missing a season sure doesn't help the guy who has a 4 year career much now, it doesn't help him much either if his salary is chopped in half heading forward either.
I agree. I hope that that is not what will happen. Low end salaries should not have to change much (regardless; it is still a tremendous salary compared to non pro sports pay scales). It is the high end salaries that are killing the league. Can any player be worth 8 million a year? When you look at an 82 game season that is just under 100 grand per game! That is indecent.
Doesnt that put it all in perspective. Hockey players are incredible athletes. In my opinion the most talented toughest etc, etc, in professional sports. Their sport does not have a huge fan base and yet in todays NHL the average players salary of $1.8 million equates to $21,951.22 per regular season game played. That is a ridiculous pay check per game from a league that can no longer get a decent TV contract because ratings are so low.

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09-23-2004, 01:17 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr gib
ya get what ya get the market rools - ask bryden and daigle - everyone of us would take an absurd raise if we could -
you're right, there's no one that wouldn't take an absurd raise, however i'd bet 10 to 1 odds that if the head of said company came to every person that got an absurd raise that every one of them who enjoyed working for the company would take a reduced salary if the ceo said they need that money or the company will be in the red, the only scenario i see the employee saying up yours to the ceo is if the employee doesn't thoroughly enjoy his/her job.... anyone who's working happily in a company would more often than not say ok to a previous 'absurd raise' being rolled back for the well being of the company as a whole

it's happened with the company my bro-in-law works for as a matter of fact, so it's not just garbage im spewing

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09-23-2004, 01:17 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by jpsharkfan
I agree. I hope that that is not what will happen. Low end salaries should not have to change much (regardless; it is still a tremendous salary compared to non pro sports pay scales). It is the high end salaries that are killing the league. Can any player be worth 8 million a year? When you look at an 82 game season that is just under 100 grand per game! That is indecent.
Doesnt that put it all in perspective. Hockey players are incredible athletes. In my opinion the most talented toughest etc, etc, in professional sports. Their sport does not have a huge fan base and yet in todays NHL the average players salary of $1.8 million equates to $21,951.22 per regular season game played. That is a ridiculous pay check per game from a league that can no longer get a decent TV contract because ratings are so low.
in 03 tiger woods made - 100 mil - david beckham made - 65 - and michael shumacher made 35 -

shaq makes 30 - a rod makes 40 k per at bat

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09-23-2004, 01:20 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by mr gib
you are exactly right - and bettman is looking after the crappy teams -
Which teams would those be? Every season the teams that you could call crappy change. Part of the reason for this is teams cannot afford to keep their own talent and they are required to give qualifing offers at either 100 percent or 110 percent of current salary regardless of performance or lack there of. If they do not qualify a player than they have to let a player walk with no return on investment at all.

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