HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Ottawa Senators
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Our next trade

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-12-2011, 01:05 PM
  #101
BonkTastic
"Small Sample Size!"
 
BonkTastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Jakarta, IDN
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,550
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The OttoMan View Post
In theory, I love it... I just can't see us having/giving the pieces to land him. First of all, I see them pretty much demanding Smith as part of the return, which would be tough to swallow. On top of that, we would probably have to give Kuba as a salary return. Now maybe I'm overvaluing Dubinsky, but I dont think I am in saying that Kuba and Smith doesn't get it done. Even if we add a 2nd, I doubt that's enough. Just doesn't seem enticing enough, despite it being a pretty substancial package.
Dubinsky was just resigned to a 4 year contract that pays him 4.2mil/year IIRC, his past two seasons have seen him score at a 50-60 pt pace, he's typically good for 100 pim, 5 fights a year, consistent faceoff success, and he has an ever-growing physical presence.

Rangers want to succeed NOW. I wouldn't give up Dubinsky without getting Smith in return, but who knows if the Rangers would have the same target. If I'm in Sather's shoes, though, I demand Smith, Kuba, and Hoffman/Stone/Greening/Condra. Even now, I might be selling Dubinsky short... but how many people would be psyched to do that trade?
Yeah, I think that price is based on precedent and not their current situation. Dubinsky is centering their 4th line right now, and at his salary, I think my hope would be that we could entice Sather by appealing to his current production, which is pretty awful.

If Sather wants 2010-11 value for Dubinsky, I doubt a deal would ever get done... but I think the trick for us right now is to look for inconsistencies in the 2011-12 season, and catch a GM who is unhappy with the production of a player in the first quarter of the season, and take a chance. I think Dubinsky MIGHT fall into that category, especially with them needing blueline help, and having a player earning $4+ mil on their 4th line. No sense in not trying, at least.

I don't know about smith, but I'd definitely move Kuba + a nice pick for Dubinsky. I would LOVE to see Duby in a Sens uniform...

BonkTastic is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2011, 01:12 PM
  #102
wubwubwubwub
What, Me Worry?
 
wubwubwubwub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 13,172
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nail2012 View Post
Did anyone calling for Kuba to be traded now, consider looking at our record since Kuba has been injured? Anyone?

Same goes for Gonchar.

Who would've thought that our kids couldn't do it all.

wubwubwubwub is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2011, 01:19 PM
  #103
BonkTastic
"Small Sample Size!"
 
BonkTastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Jakarta, IDN
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,550
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The OttoMan View Post
ALRIGHT, THAT DOES IT.




... Let's go do karate in the garage.

BonkTastic is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2011, 01:20 PM
  #104
Billy Madison*
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,101
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sensjersey11 View Post
I can't speak for anyone else but myself, so here's my reasoning:

If Kuba and Gonchar are so integral to our success, aren't we fooling ourselves into a false sense of security by keeping them around? If they are just here to mask our deficiencies, I'd rather them gone so we can truly see what we have going forward over the next 3-5 years, a time when both players almost assuredly won't be here.

Yes, I totally admit I'm very much playing Devils Advocate here... but if Kuba and Gonhar are REALLY that important to the club's performance at the moment, I think it sort of underlines the issues with the team: that we are a young club that is relying too heavily on the vets, that we are not ready to be a competitive club at the moment, and should be focusing on the near future, when neither player will be around. The best way to do that is to deal them when they have proven to the rest of the league (read: 29 other GMs) that they are a desirable asset to acquire for a true contending team.

All that said, I do want to keep one of the two around. But one is definitely expendable.
Kuba is the guy if you had a choice. Plays the left side where the Sens are thin. Has a very good defensive games and is able to provide offense. He's a steady, reliable, and experienced partner for Karlsson. Honestly, the people ripping on Kuba still just shocks me. One bad year in 12 or 13 seasons and he's a guy that needs to go...

Fact of the matter is it should be very carefully considered if Kuba should be resigned or not. If they can move Gonchar then resigning Kuba should be somewhat of a priority. Not a long term deal but something in the area of 2 years, 6 mil. That gives a lot of guys time and room to develop and it doesn't just hand the roster spots over to guys that might not be ready.

You lose Kuba and Gonchar and you are looking to replace them on July 1 anyways. Might as well take the guys that know the system, team, city, and players.

Billy Madison* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2011, 01:21 PM
  #105
wubwubwubwub
What, Me Worry?
 
wubwubwubwub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 13,172
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sensjersey11 View Post
Yeah, I think that price is based on precedent and not their current situation. Dubinsky is centering their 4th line right now, and at his salary, I think my hope would be that we could entice Sather by appealing to his current production, which is pretty awful.

If Sather wants 2010-11 value for Dubinsky, I doubt a deal would ever get done... but I think the trick for us right now is to look for inconsistencies in the 2011-12 season, and catch a GM who is unhappy with the production of a player in the first quarter of the season, and take a chance. I think Dubinsky MIGHT fall into that category, especially with them needing blueline help, and having a player earning $4+ mil on their 4th line. No sense in not trying, at least.

I don't know about smith, but I'd definitely move Kuba + a nice pick for Dubinsky. I would LOVE to see Duby in a Sens uniform...
He's still not scoring an AWFULLY low amount, I think its too soon for him to have much lower value... If they committed for 4 years, I doubt they would have a lower opinion of him after just games. He's still top 5 in minutes played this year and he's a fixture on the PP and PK. Again, I'd love to get him for Kuba and a nice pick but I don't really see the benefit for NYR... doesn't necessarily improve them and Kuba is a short-term player.

Wolski, Avery, Christensen and Fedetenko are all relatively useless players who come off the books for a combined cap hit of about 7.75 mil, and the only significant players that they need to resign is Del Zotto- and at this rate he's not looking like he'll get much more than 2.5 mil. So, take out Dooby, sign Del Zotto at lets say 3mil, and they have about 18mil to sign 3 forwards, a 4/5 DMan, and a backup. Add in Dubi, and they have 13.5 to sign a 3rd liner, a 4th liner, a 4/5 DMan, and a backup. Either one is easily manageable, and I'd even say that keeping Dubi puts them in a more comfortable position considering the upcoming UFA forwards.

wubwubwubwub is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2011, 01:25 PM
  #106
BonkTastic
"Small Sample Size!"
 
BonkTastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Jakarta, IDN
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,550
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The OttoMan View Post
He's still not scoring an AWFULLY low amount, I think its too soon for him to have much lower value... If they committed for 4 years, I doubt they would have a lower opinion of him after just games. He's still top 5 in minutes played this year and he's a fixture on the PP and PK. Again, I'd love to get him for Kuba and a nice pick but I don't really see the benefit for NYR... doesn't necessarily improve them and Kuba is a short-term player.

Wolski, Avery, Christensen and Fedetenko are all relatively useless players who come off the books for a combined cap hit of about 7.75 mil, and the only significant players that they need to resign is Del Zotto- and at this rate he's not looking like he'll get much more than 2.5 mil. So, take out Dooby, sign Del Zotto at lets say 3mil, and they have about 18mil to sign 3 forwards, a 4/5 DMan, and a backup. Add in Dubi, and they have 13.5 to sign a 3rd liner, a 4th liner, a 4/5 DMan, and a backup. Either one is easily manageable, and I'd even say that keeping Dubi puts them in a more comfortable position considering the upcoming UFA forwards.
Yeah, like I said, I agree that it's a long-shot to get done, but I think my point was that maybe our best bet to get a trade that's a good fit for us with the assets that we want to send back are to look for GM's who are ready to cut the cord sooner than they should on a player who isn't necessarily living up to their role/salary/whatever. Dubinsky MIGHT fall into that category, as could other players.

I also really, really like Dubinsky, so there's clearly a little bias here.

BonkTastic is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2011, 01:28 PM
  #107
True Story
Registered User
 
True Story's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,147
vCash: 500
....


Last edited by True Story: 05-04-2012 at 03:15 PM.
True Story is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2011, 01:33 PM
  #108
CanadianHockey
Smith - Alfie
 
CanadianHockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 28,794
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sensjersey11 View Post
I can't speak for anyone else but myself, so here's my reasoning:

If Kuba and Gonchar are so integral to our success, aren't we fooling ourselves into a false sense of security by keeping them around? If they are just here to mask our deficiencies, I'd rather them gone so we can truly see what we have going forward over the next 3-5 years, a time when both players almost assuredly won't be here.

Yes, I totally admit I'm very much playing Devils Advocate here... but if Kuba and Gonhar are REALLY that important to the club's performance at the moment, I think it sort of underlines the issues with the team: that we are a young club that is relying too heavily on the vets, that we are not ready to be a competitive club at the moment, and should be focusing on the near future, when neither player will be around. The best way to do that is to deal them when they have proven to the rest of the league (read: 29 other GMs) that they are a desirable asset to acquire for a true contending team.

All that said, I do want to keep one of the two around. But one is definitely expendable.
Preface: I know you're just playing devil's advocate.
Is it best for our young player's development to trade the vets and expose them? Not really, IMO it just overexposes young players. You always need to have vet mentors and vets to eat big minutes until your young guys are ready to eat big minutes.

__________________
CanadianHockey________ __ __________Sens, Oilers, and Team Canada
CanadianHockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2011, 02:02 PM
  #109
HappyDude
Fire Cameron
 
HappyDude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,205
vCash: 500
People are getting so swept up in saving the season! All this "We need Kuba, we cant trade him" talk is bullspit.

This year is SUPPOSED to be a rebuilding year. WE ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO MAKE THE PLAYOFFS. Some people have got WAY to caught up in the wins we have had this year.

Kubas value is high, he should be traded. Don't expect this team to make the playoffs!

HappyDude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2011, 03:28 PM
  #110
True Story
Registered User
 
True Story's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,147
vCash: 500
....


Last edited by True Story: 05-04-2012 at 03:15 PM.
True Story is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2011, 03:43 PM
  #111
Billy Madison*
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,101
vCash: 500
The stupidity of people's views on a "rebuilding" team just amazes me. A rebuilding team is supposed to put in players that are not ready for an NHL roster spot in the line so they can lose night after night.


Last edited by Hank Chinaski: 12-13-2011 at 10:32 AM. Reason: flaming
Billy Madison* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2011, 03:49 PM
  #112
GreatStateofHockey
Registered User
 
GreatStateofHockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Country: United States
Posts: 1,167
vCash: 500
2014 Trade Deadline

2014 1st
2014 2nd
2nd top prospect from 2013 draft

for

Loui Eriksson

GreatStateofHockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2011, 04:07 PM
  #113
Shanny
Coming In Hot
 
Shanny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Bytown
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,045
vCash: 500
Dustin Penner will be an Ottawa Senator by March unfortunately.

Shanny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2011, 04:08 PM
  #114
BonkTastic
"Small Sample Size!"
 
BonkTastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Jakarta, IDN
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,550
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheZibanejad View Post
2014 Trade Deadline

2014 1st
2014 2nd
2nd top prospect from 2013 draft

for

Loui Eriksson
I don't think that even gets us close.

BonkTastic is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2011, 04:22 PM
  #115
HappyDude
Fire Cameron
 
HappyDude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,205
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nail2012 View Post
Losing every game does not help a rebuild. Winning some games here and there does.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Madison View Post
The stupidity of people's views on a "rebuilding" team just amazes me. A rebuilding team is supposed to put in players that are not ready for an NHL roster spot in the line so they can lose night after night.
The point isn't to lose every night. The point is expiring contracts should be moved if the player isn't being resigned. It called managing your assets, maybe you should learn about it. If you think moving Kuba is going to destroy the team and the rebuild then you have problems with your brain.


Last edited by Hank Chinaski: 12-13-2011 at 10:32 AM. Reason: qep
HappyDude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2011, 04:29 PM
  #116
Iggy77
Registered User
 
Iggy77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Ottawa, ON
Posts: 1,431
vCash: 500
Kuba shouldn't be traded unless we have someone who can step in and assume his role and minutes.

So far the team seems far worse with Kuba and Gonchar out.

Iggy77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2011, 04:32 PM
  #117
HappyDude
Fire Cameron
 
HappyDude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,205
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iggy77 View Post
Kuba shouldn't be traded unless we have someone who can step in and assume his role and minutes.

So far the team seems far worse with Kuba and Gonchar out.
Good. Then maybe we will get a lottery pick.

HappyDude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2011, 04:36 PM
  #118
aragorn
YES WE CAN
 
aragorn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Country: Azores
Posts: 11,315
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Madison View Post
Kuba is the guy if you had a choice. Plays the left side where the Sens are thin. Has a very good defensive games and is able to provide offense. He's a steady, reliable, and experienced partner for Karlsson. Honestly, the people ripping on Kuba still just shocks me. One bad year in 12 or 13 seasons and he's a guy that needs to go...

Fact of the matter is it should be very carefully considered if Kuba should be resigned or not. If they can move Gonchar then resigning Kuba should be somewhat of a priority. Not a long term deal but something in the area of 2 years, 6 mil. That gives a lot of guys time and room to develop and it doesn't just hand the roster spots over to guys that might not be ready.

You lose Kuba and Gonchar and you are looking to replace them on July 1 anyways. Might as well take the guys that know the system, team, city, and players.
I think Gonchar's age & the fact that he has another yr on his contract pretty much makes him unmovable. While you are right about Kuba I think the organization thinks Borocop or Weircioch or Gryba can step in & replace not all but some of his minutes while bringing a little more toughness to the defence. They have to give these guys a shot eventually. Obviously they can't replace his experience & offence right away but they can replace a little bit of it. I think they will rely on Cowen & company to divide the rest of his minutes between them.

Next yr if Gonchar hasn't retired I think he will be in the same boat & Ottawa will be looking to move him before the deadline, if possible. Otherwise, I guess he retires or goes back to Russia to play, either way I think he is done in the NHL. The yr after that it could be Phillips turn to be traded at the deadline if he wants to continue to play in the NHL, he might get another contract in Ottawa but I lean more towards retirement or traded.

aragorn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2011, 04:44 PM
  #119
Iggy77
Registered User
 
Iggy77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Ottawa, ON
Posts: 1,431
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyDude View Post
Good. Then maybe we will get a lottery pick.
Getting lottery picks year after year is a sure fire way to win a Cup

I'm sure MacLean lets the team before every game that we're rebuilding and it's OK to lose. Just get out there, have some fun and don't try too hard to win because there's this Yakupov guy everyone wants

I'm sure Murray is sitting in his office trying to figure out how to make this team worse while staying above the cap floor.


Iggy77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2011, 05:02 PM
  #120
Cujomi
YNWA
 
Cujomi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,255
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The OttoMan View Post
I don't think he'll understand this post you might want to simplify it.

Cujomi is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2011, 05:16 PM
  #121
HappyDude
Fire Cameron
 
HappyDude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,205
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iggy77 View Post
Getting lottery picks year after year is a sure fire way to win a Cup

I'm sure MacLean lets the team before every game that we're rebuilding and it's OK to lose. Just get out there, have some fun and don't try too hard to win because there's this Yakupov guy everyone wants

I'm sure Murray is sitting in his office trying to figure out how to make this team worse while staying above the cap floor.

Its interesting how I never said any of this. Perhaps you should work on your comprehension skills? Try reading my last post, you just proved my point about your brain being broken.

HappyDude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2011, 05:19 PM
  #122
Eamonn*
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,395
vCash: 500
Grabovski for your 1st

Eamonn* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2011, 09:15 PM
  #123
sens4life
CLASSLESS
 
sens4life's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Kanata
Posts: 1,559
vCash: 500
Gonchar for Kadri?

sens4life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2011, 10:16 PM
  #124
Fenix Rises 2026
Alfie forever!
 
Fenix Rises 2026's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 5,260
vCash: 500
Boro will come up and carkner will be dealt.

Fenix Rises 2026 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2011, 10:18 PM
  #125
hockeyalltheway
Moderator
Get well soon, GMBM.
 
hockeyalltheway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,832
vCash: 500
This thread needs more bdp.

__________________
hockeyalltheway is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:13 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.