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Old
12-11-2011, 02:58 PM
  #1
californiahockey
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Anyone else think Feaster is crazy for refusing to rebuild

Last night I managed to stay up and watch after hours on hockey night in Canada in which they interviewed Jay Feaster, who managed to make it clear that he had no intentions of rebuilding what so ever, and that Iginla will stay a flame. I really don't understand this. Does he real think the Flames can make a run at the cup from a 7th or 8th seed this year if we have to face Chicago, Vancouver, or San Jose in the First Round!

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12-11-2011, 03:04 PM
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CGYPUKSUX
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Yes, he's nuckin futs!

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12-11-2011, 03:06 PM
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Fleury14
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I'd prefer trying for the playoffs than a crash and burn rebuild. The Flames tried that route in the mid-90's and it was an absolute disaster; not every rebuilding team turns in to the Penguins or Capitals. I'd rather keep trying to rebuild on the fly and aim for wins, not to get as young as possible.

Personally, I like our roster on paper, they have certainly underperformed this season though; it looks like they may be turning it around. The crop of forwards is very deep and we have one of the top Gs in the league. The defense could be better but I think it's solid enough.

This isn't fantasy hockey, I don't want to absolute suck for the next 5 years ala "the HF mantra" in the hopes we might have the right people in management to set the team up well long-term.

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12-11-2011, 03:18 PM
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CGYPUKSUX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleury14 View Post
I'd prefer trying for the playoffs than a crash and burn rebuild. The Flames tried that route in the mid-90's and it was an absolute disaster; not every rebuilding team turns in to the Penguins or Capitals. I'd rather keep trying to rebuild on the fly and aim for wins, not to get as young as possible.

Personally, I like our roster on paper, they have certainly underperformed this season though; it looks like they may be turning it around. The crop of forwards is very deep and we have one of the top Gs in the league. The defense could be better but I think it's solid enough.

This isn't fantasy hockey, I don't want to absolute suck for the next 5 years ala "the HF mantra" in the hopes we might have the right people in management to set the team up well long-term.
Huh? The Flames never dumped during the 90's. In fact, that was their problem. They never played well enough to make the playoffs and never bad enough to draft top 3. The worst they did was 6th, and you don't get a superstar at 6th. The mentality of the Flames was to try and make the post season and see what happens, except they didn't have the talent to make the playoffs.

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12-11-2011, 03:22 PM
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Skobel24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by californiahockey View Post
Last night I managed to stay up and watch after hours on hockey night in Canada in which they interviewed Jay Feaster, who managed to make it clear that he had no intentions of rebuilding what so ever, and that Iginla will stay a flame. I really don't understand this. Does he real think the Flames can make a run at the cup from a 7th or 8th seed this year if we have to face Chicago, Vancouver, or San Jose in the First Round!
All a team needs to do is make the playoffs. From there, its anyone's cup. I don't see us making the playoffs, but I'd rather see the team try to compete, and develop its youth. We're currently 2 points out, and we've seen guys like Horak, Brodie, and Nemisz step up. Also take into account the amount of salary that will be gone next season, leaves room for major changes. While I'm insanely jealous of the players Edmonton has, I don't want to go the route that they did.

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12-11-2011, 03:25 PM
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tfong
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Yep, its kinda like when Sutter refused to admit the team needed to restock and he kept going out to get veterans.

The more we compete now, the more we lose out on the lottery pick (and Yaku/Grigorenko). Like I said, if there was any season not to win, this would be it.

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12-11-2011, 03:33 PM
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californiahockey
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Would you guys be ok with them trading Jarome for picks or promising young players that could eventually lead this team?

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12-11-2011, 03:35 PM
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He said once you make the playoffs, anything can happen. I can believe that the Flames can go deep if they made the playoffs. I know it sounds crazy, but the few times I watched the Flames play with 100% effort from all players for all 60 minutes, they are scary good. They are dominant, and they can mix with the best of them.

This team doesn't have a consistent effort for an entire game, and they don't bring effort for every game, and that's where the problem lies. Getting younger might make this team more skilled, but that's not addressing the issue because this team has skill in it's current state.

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12-11-2011, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleury14 View Post
I'd prefer trying for the playoffs than a crash and burn rebuild. The Flames tried that route in the mid-90's and it was an absolute disaster; not every rebuilding team turns in to the Penguins or Capitals. I'd rather keep trying to rebuild on the fly and aim for wins, not to get as young as possible.

Personally, I like our roster on paper, they have certainly underperformed this season though; it looks like they may be turning it around. The crop of forwards is very deep and we have one of the top Gs in the league. The defense could be better but I think it's solid enough.

This isn't fantasy hockey, I don't want to absolute suck for the next 5 years ala "the HF mantra" in the hopes we might have the right people in management to set the team up well long-term.
With players like Yakupov, MacKinnon, Murray etc coming up in the next two years, who ever tanks will be the next Pittsburgh.

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12-11-2011, 03:59 PM
  #10
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Originally Posted by MrForever View Post
With players like Yakupov, MacKinnon, Murray etc coming up in the next two years, who ever tanks will be the next Pittsburgh.
This is said every year. I heard scouts comparing 15th to 25th ranked picks to S. Stevens, J. Sakic, etc., while the 1st to 3rd overall picks are also said to be franchise players. That's not always the case, and they can't all be the next great one.

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12-11-2011, 04:25 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleury14 View Post
I'd prefer trying for the playoffs than a crash and burn rebuild. The Flames tried that route in the mid-90's and it was an absolute disaster; .
I must have missed that rebuild.

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12-11-2011, 04:35 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrForever View Post
With players like Yakupov, MacKinnon, Murray etc coming up in the next two years, who ever tanks will be the next Pittsburgh.
This is pretty much my exact problem with the HFBoards "blow it up" mentality - there simply are no guarantees. While all of these players will likely be good, if not very good, the Pittsburgh's and Chicago's of the league were able to draft franchise players which simply don't come along every year. What's more likely is that we end up being a Columbus, Atlanta or Florida, teams who have seemingly been "rebuilding" for years now.

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12-11-2011, 04:47 PM
  #13
tfong
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Quote:
Originally Posted by berto14 View Post
This is pretty much my exact problem with the HFBoards "blow it up" mentality - there simply are no guarantees. While all of these players will likely be good, if not very good, the Pittsburgh's and Chicago's of the league were able to draft franchise players which simply don't come along every year. What's more likely is that we end up being a Columbus, Atlanta or Florida, teams who have seemingly been "rebuilding" for years now.
The difference is people watching stats vs the players.

You need to watch a game of Yak or Grigs and you can see them already in the NHL doing damage. I don't know about the picks after...but those two guys are really...good...

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12-11-2011, 05:14 PM
  #14
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I personally think we should keep the team as is until the trade deadline. At that point if it seems the playoffs are a longshot then I would rebuild.

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12-11-2011, 05:19 PM
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Johnny Hoxville
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I do not want Feaster to necessarily tank, but I want him to continue to do what he has been doing. Which is trimming the fat on this team, getting rid of the dead weight contracts, get younger, and trade anyone for the right deal if it makes this team better, less expensive, or younger. If Feaster can obtain some nice pieces this way (ie. acquiring a Kyle Turris), then I am all for that. In the process we will likely get some good draft picks, and more cap space to spend on some high profile FA's. I think this is Feaster's plan and this is the direction I would support in a rebuild. If Kipper gets moved, then things will really be shaken up.

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12-11-2011, 05:33 PM
  #16
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When most players have NTC, and many have undesirable contracts, they may be little that Feaster can do.

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12-11-2011, 05:37 PM
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As much as I'd like a lottery pick level prospect, I'd rather have my head held high till at least the deadline, and go from there.

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12-11-2011, 05:42 PM
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Johnny Hoxville
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Originally Posted by slappipappi View Post
When most players have NTC, and many have undesirable contracts, they may be little that Feaster can do.
Really, the only players left with undesirable contracts are Stajan, Bouwmeester and Sarich. Everyone else has at least a close to market value contract. A NTC does not make it impossible to move a player, it gives that player control in where they are going.

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12-11-2011, 05:50 PM
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If your team does so bad that you just end up in the top 5 at the draft without making any major moves, is that considered a rebuild?

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12-11-2011, 06:08 PM
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I don't know why this is so hard for people to understand, but you can rebuild without selling off all your assets with the intent of being among the worst in the league. When the team is making trades now it is about getting younger and quicker. It's also about adding solid prospects.

People also seem to ignore than half our teams contracts are up next year and this team will look completely different as a result.

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12-11-2011, 06:22 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tfong View Post
The difference is people watching stats vs the players.

You need to watch a game of Yak or Grigs and you can see them already in the NHL doing damage. I don't know about the picks after...but those two guys are really...good...

2012- Grigorenko, Yakupov
2013- Aleksander Barkov, Nathan MacKinnon, Curtis Lazar
2014- Jake Virtanen, Josh Ho-Sang, Aaron Ekblad
2015- Luc Deschesne
2016- Jaeger White

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Old
12-11-2011, 06:22 PM
  #22
Calculon
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Originally Posted by Skobel24 View Post
All a team needs to do is make the playoffs. From there, its anyone's cup. I don't see us making the playoffs, but I'd rather see the team try to compete, and develop its youth. We're currently 2 points out, and we've seen guys like Horak, Brodie, and Nemisz step up. Also take into account the amount of salary that will be gone next season, leaves room for major changes. While I'm insanely jealous of the players Edmonton has, I don't want to go the route that they did.
Yeah, that's not even remotely true. 'No team seeded lower than 5th in their conference has won the Cup. Ever.' Aside from New Jersey in 1995 (a shortened season where standings weren't wholly accurate), every single cup winning team has had home ice advantage for at least one round. What you're talking about is that even bottom seeded teams can go deep into the playoffs which is entirely true. But these teams don't win the Cup and frankly, I'd rather win the Cup than pin all my hopes on a Cinderella runs.

The idea that the Flames could squeak into eight and then win the Cup would be laughable in its naïveté if the belief wasn't so common amongst Flames fans. Now it's just scary. Frankly this misconception needs to die a painful death not only in the team's management, but in fans as well if this franchise ever hopes to win another Cup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by berto14 View Post
This is pretty much my exact problem with the HFBoards "blow it up" mentality - there simply are no guarantees. While all of these players will likely be good, if not very good, the Pittsburgh's and Chicago's of the league were able to draft franchise players which simply don't come along every year. What's more likely is that we end up being a Columbus, Atlanta or Florida, teams who have seemingly been "rebuilding" for years now.
I've noticed a lot of people saying this and I can't help but wonder why. I mean, what a bizarrely pointless and redundant statement. Of course it's not a guarantee, because nothing in sports is a guarantee. You could abolish the salary cap and trade 7th round picks for Crosby, Malkin, Thomas, Chara and Ovechkin and there's still no guarantee of winning the Stanley Cup. For all we know, they could each get into freak accidents and never play hockey again the moment after being acquired. If the only way you'll do something is if it's guaranteed to be successful, well then, good luck with that.

It's funny because if the Flames are truly refusing to rebuild, then they are more or less ensuring that they never become cup contenders. At least in a rebuild theirs a chance of success, assuming competent management.

To address the original post, what Flames management say and what they do are two entirely different things more often than not. The upcoming stretch where the Flames play 18 of 24 against playoff teams will do much to decide what this team does at the trade deadline.

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Old
12-11-2011, 06:50 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skobel24 View Post
All a team needs to do is make the playoffs. From there, its anyone's cup. I don't see us making the playoffs, but I'd rather see the team try to compete, and develop its youth. We're currently 2 points out, and we've seen guys like Horak, Brodie, and Nemisz step up. Also take into account the amount of salary that will be gone next season, leaves room for major changes. While I'm insanely jealous of the players Edmonton has, I don't want to go the route that they did.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Backlund View Post
I personally think we should keep the team as is until the trade deadline. At that point if it seems the playoffs are a longshot then I would rebuild.
These two statements cover my feelings about it all as well. I'd personally love to see this team make the playoffs and hopefully make some noise. However, if they're out of it by 4 points or more at the deadline, go ahead with the rebuild but keep some of the vet's around. I'm against selling off all of our vet's because then you have a team that will consistently lose without any vet presence, much like what we saw in the 1990's. Consistently losing will develop a culture of losing, and that's what I'm worried about if we were to go the rebuild route.

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12-11-2011, 08:01 PM
  #24
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Seems like they are rebuilding, just not the "scorched earth" type rebuild that we discuss/propose on here to no end.

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12-11-2011, 08:11 PM
  #25
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Originally Posted by Medium Rare View Post
I don't know why this is so hard for people to understand, but you can rebuild without selling off all your assets with the intent of being among the worst in the league. When the team is making trades now it is about getting younger and quicker. It's also about adding solid prospects.

People also seem to ignore than half our teams contracts are up next year and this team will look completely different as a result.
Quoted for Mother ************ Truth.

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