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Old
12-12-2011, 12:17 PM
  #26
Sean McG
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lol, unbelievable. Poms has 31 points in 29 games, and his longest streak of pointless games has been TWO which he's done once. He has registered a point in 22 games this year, he plays on the PK, his shooting percentage is a very solid 12%, he has 3 game winners, only has six PIM's, he's worked his ass off and out of nowhere become one of the team's more prominent faceoff guys, the only gripe about him is that he could have more PP points - he only has 4 - but when you're scoring at even strength, who cares. But he's not 'gritty' and therefore not captain material. The things people come up with when they're unhappy...

Yeah, on that list there's a lot of players I'd take over Pominville; that hardly means anything, your captain doesn't have to be a top-10 player in the league or even the best player on your team. He's respected around the league and more importantly in the dressing room. I admit I was pretty pro-Vanek for captain at first, but I think it was a tremendous decision giving Poms the C.

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Old
12-12-2011, 12:51 PM
  #27
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I 100% agree with Jami, I would of shipped out Pomms this past summer. I argued, mistakenly I admit, that a salary cutting deal around Pomms/Stoll for months was the right thing to do, so I'm no Pomms fanboy.....

But

Pomms has played a much better game this year and has stepped up in areas like leadership that I didn't think he had. Pomms gets props on this team right now.

With that said, I think he's the perfect choice of captain for a bunch of wusses, like this years Sabres. He's the perfect choice of captain for an inconsistent, lackluster, uninspired team like this years Sabres. Pomms is a perfect player, love him how he's playing but he is a comalimentary player, not the guy you count on. If the right deal came up, I'd trade him.

Great season so far but not the type of player I want as captain. We all knew the identity of the team needed an overhaul this past season, and we brought in a warrior in Regher. He was my choice as there was no deserving member of the remaining team. Please, it's a joke that Gausted and Stafford wear 'A's' on their sweaters. Won't mention Roy, as he got his for points alone. Goes to show you what a joke the so called leaders of this team are.

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Old
12-12-2011, 12:55 PM
  #28
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I don't really understand the point of this thread, you suggested that Pominville is the worst player among Captains in the league, and then you describe how an inferior player should be named Captain.

If other Captains ability is your metric, how does that make any sense?

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12-12-2011, 01:30 PM
  #29
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Captains set the tone for their teams. Pominville appears to be a humble, hard-working player know for professional preparation and practice habits who is pumping guys tires in-game and in the dressing room media scrums. He's played the best hockey of his career with the "C" on his chest, both this season and in the rotation 2-month bid 2 years ago. He clearly takes it seriously.

What's at issue here is what someone's perception of what being "captain" means. Drury was beloved for being captain and wasn't someone "sticking up for" anyone out there. He played an honest, hard-working game and was, from teammates lips to our ears, a pro off the ice regarding preparation and practice. Jean Béliveau, Joe Sakic, Steve Yzerman, Wayne Gretzky -- not a knuckle-dragging set in the bunch.

Good captains lead and leadership has nothing to do with fighting. Hell, it doesn't have to have anything to do with being a physically imposing player either.

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12-12-2011, 01:43 PM
  #30
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Pominville is apt in all phases of the game, save for dropping the gloves.

I've pointed to the fact that, whenever I sit near the Sabres' bench at MSG/Rock/Nassau, he's CLEARLY the most vocal on the bench. Goose talks, too, but it's Poms always commenting on plays on-the-ice, or your simple "s'go boys, pick it up here now" after a goal against.

We know NOTHING about the other intricacies of the lockerroom; therefore, we have no idea how he is when the doors are shut. I have to think there was a reason he was named, and also have to agree with everyone that says he is earning his money this year.

As far as untradeable, I wouldn't go there. But valuable he is, and our best player he has been to date this year.

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12-12-2011, 01:43 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
Captains set the tone for their teams. Pominville appears to be a humble, hard-working player know for professional preparation and practice habits who is pumping guys tires in-game and in the dressing room media scrums. He's played the best hockey of his career with the "C" on his chest, both this season and in the rotation 2-month bid 2 years ago. He clearly takes it seriously.

What's at issue here is what someone's perception of what being "captain" means. Drury was beloved for being captain and wasn't someone "sticking up for" anyone out there. He played an honest, hard-working game and was, from teammates lips to our ears, a pro off the ice regarding preparation and practice. Jean Béliveau, Joe Sakic, Steve Yzerman, Wayne Gretzky -- not a knuckle-dragging set in the bunch.

Good captains lead and leadership has nothing to do with fighting. Hell, it doesn't have to have anything to do with being a physically imposing player either.
Absolutely. Great post. Pominville is a professional and a great representative for our club. You don't have to fight to be a great captain.

The jury is still out on whether or not Poms is a great captain, but the room clearly respects him as a lead-by-example type. The team fell apart without him in the playoffs last year. Whether or not the collapse coincided with his absence remains to be seen, but he's a respected voice in the room and Lindy took notice.

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12-12-2011, 01:49 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loods View Post
Absolutely. Great post. Pominville is a professional and a great representative for our club. You don't have to fight to be a great captain.

The jury is still out on whether or not Poms is a great captain, but the room clearly respects him as a lead-by-example type. The team fell apart without him in the playoffs last year. Whether or not the collapse coincided with his absence remains to be seen, but he's a respected voice in the room and Lindy took notice.
Not that Pominville has won anything, but this notion that a "great leader" has to chew rocks and spit nails or isn't effective is just flawed when looking at some of the best captains in NHL history. Being respected by your teammates, bringing out your best, leading by example is often the bigger thing.

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12-12-2011, 02:04 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
Not that Pominville has won anything, but this notion that a "great leader" has to chew rocks and spit nails or isn't effective is just flawed when looking at some of the best captains in NHL history. Being respected by your teammates, bringing out your best, leading by example is often the bigger thing.
Like Sakic, Yzerman, Bourque, etc.

Though talent-wise, Poms is far from their level, you look at those guys and don't really see any heavyweights or agitators. You see guys who can make their teams better by example and on-ice performance, notably when it matters most.

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Old
12-12-2011, 02:08 PM
  #34
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Love Pommers as captain. One of the bright spots for the team so far this year.

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Old
12-12-2011, 03:04 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
Not that Pominville has won anything, but this notion that a "great leader" has to chew rocks and spit nails or isn't effective is just flawed when looking at some of the best captains in NHL history. Being respected by your teammates, bringing out your best, leading by example is often the bigger thing.
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Originally Posted by jBuds View Post
Like Sakic, Yzerman, Bourque, etc.

Though talent-wise, Poms is far from their level, you look at those guys and don't really see any heavyweights or agitators. You see guys who can make their teams better by example and on-ice performance, notably when it matters most.
Again, great points.


I took a look at OP's list of captains again and researched their NHL career fight count since the lockout as per hockeyfights.com. Preseason, Regular Season, and Postseason.

BUF - Pominville - 1 (dropped with Cooke last year against his will)
BOS - Chara - 17
OTT - Alfredsson - 0
TOR - Phaneuf - 33
MTL - Gionta - 1
WSH - Ovechkin - 3
TB - Lecavalier - 10
FLA Alternates: Weiss - 0, Kopecky - 2, Campbell - 1, Jovanovski - 10 | (average of 3.25 fights per year)
WPG - Ladd - 9
CAR - Staal - 1
PHI - Pronger - 4
NYR - Callahan - 10
NYI - Streit - 1
PIT - Crosby - 5
NJD - Parise - 1

VAN - Sedin - 0
CGY - Iginla - 24
EDM - Horcoff - 5
MIN - Koivu - 0
COL - Hejduk - 0
DAL - Morrow - 19
PHX - Doan - 10 (just 1 per year since the 05-06 season)
LA - Brown - 8
SJ - Thornton - 5
ANA - Getzlaf - 17
DET - Lidstrom - 0
CHI - Toews - 2
CBJ - Nash - 5
STL - Backes - 20
NSH - Weber - 16



I bolded those with five or less bouts, because this is the 7th season since the lockout and if they have five or fewer then there is no regularity in which they fight. Five is a generous number, too. I could make the same argument looking at 10 fights in seven seasons.

18 of the 30 captains are bolded. Some awfully good captains are on the list too.

You want your captain to be on the ice throughout a game as often as possible. Not in the box.

Truly, I don't think a captain is someone that sticks up for his teammates. I think a captain is someone whose teammates will stick up for him. I feel that we have that in Pominville.

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Old
12-12-2011, 03:27 PM
  #36
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Maybe we are looking at this wrong....

Is Pomms having a great year? Yes, absolutely. He's playing great and doing things a captain should do. I'll agree with all of that, and he's earning every penny he's being paid.

Now the question I think we should be asking, and it shouldn't be about Pomms specifically bc IMO he doesn't fit.....

Is Pomms the guy the Sabres needed as captain after the last few years? We had a thread a couple weeks ago about "what is the identity of the current Sabres?" Was a status quo pick the ringht choice for this team?

Again, I don't think so and it is nothing against Pomms as a player or professional, he's just not the guy we needed or need now. I really don't think that's disputable.

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Old
12-12-2011, 03:37 PM
  #37
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The Sabres hit a homerun when they named Pominville captain. He's more than answered any doubts I've had about him. I hope he wears the "C" for the Sabres until playing days are over.

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Old
12-12-2011, 03:47 PM
  #38
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Again, I don't think so and it is nothing against Pomms as a player or professional, he's just not the guy we needed or need now. I really don't think that's disputable.
Absolutely that's debatable. I think after the past few years of rotating captaincy, the criteria were clear:
1) A guy who has been in the organization for a while.
2) A guy who has a future with the organization.
3) A leader on and off the ice.

Pominville fits the criteria perfectly. You say you want a "warrior", we did that three years ago with Craig Rivet. He threw out his shoulder and was probably one of the few captains in team history to be waived while still wearing the C. I think bringing a new guy in and immediately making him captain is a bad choice. He doesn't know the team, he doesn't know the coach and you put him in a tough spot by forcing him to lead these guys he's just getting acquainted with. Few players could pull that off.

Then you go on to say Paul Gaustad doesn't deserve an A. The guy who was most vocal about getting revenge on Lucic, the guy who was throwing fellow Sabres out of the way to get at Tootoo. And Drew Stafford, who is not a fighter but went after Chris Neil when he took out Drury. Defended Jordan Leopold when he got boarded earlier this year. If your criteria is "guys who defend their teammates" then absolutely these two guys deserve As on their sweaters.

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Old
12-12-2011, 03:48 PM
  #39
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As streaky as scorer as he can be sometimes...how rare is it to hear the following about him:

Took a dumb penalty
Caught not backchecking
Bad positioning leading to a goal
Floated

He's a fine choice for captain. He's there competing every night, results can vary, but the effort is always there.

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Old
12-12-2011, 07:11 PM
  #40
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As streaky as scorer as he can be sometimes...how rare is it to hear the following about him:
And he hasn't been streaky this year, either. He's been awfully consistent. Bonus I suppose.

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12-12-2011, 09:01 PM
  #41
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To punkrox......

I totally disagree.

This team has not had a clear cut captain for over four years. Naming Pomms had a basis but was not deserving. There is still not one on the team, so he should of kept it rotating until Pegula brought in a leader, which he will. If you think a 20+ year hockey, and more specifically Sabres fan can't tell that this team is made up of inconsistent, soft, lazy, prima donnas that don't have the heart, nor drive to be winners, then I can't help you.

But your criteria.....

1. "been in org for awhile" 4 years of being a mediocre, inconsistent, soft team, and he's part of that core.

2. "future" he's a comalimentary part and could be replaced. He's not the guy, or distinguished himself as one to build a championship team around. Here now but with a culture change needed, he could be gone tomorrow.

3. He's shown leadership this year but leader of a mediocre team.

He may fit your criteria but this team needed, and still needs an identity. I'd much rather bring in someone outside of the Rochester Core, as they do not have 'it.'

Gausted?!?!?! Omg, his actions during the Miller run showed how much if a team guy he is, and he is supposed to be Millers friend. It took the hockey world calling him out for him to do anything. Plus, he's a 4th liner, at best. He should of been traded the week of the Lucic incident, traded as an example to the rest of players. Then you mention how Stafford deserves an 'A' A guy who shows up every 5th or 7th game. The joke of all of this, is that Ruff has every 'C' or 'A' wearer a Rochester Core guy. Any Real hockey fan knows those 6 shouldnt form, or couldn't form the core of a championship team. The sooner that 2-3 of that core goes bye-bye, the better for our team.

Really, you think Stafford deserves the 'A' before Regher? Hecht? Damn, id give it to Leopold, Sekera or Meyers before him.

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12-12-2011, 09:46 PM
  #42
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To punkrox......

I totally disagree.

This team has not had a clear cut captain for over four years. Naming Pomms had a basis but was not deserving. There is still not one on the team, so he should of kept it rotating until Pegula brought in a leader, which he will. If you think a 20+ year hockey, and more specifically Sabres fan can't tell that this team is made up of inconsistent, soft, lazy, prima donnas that don't have the heart, nor drive to be winners, then I can't help you.

But your criteria.....

1. "been in org for awhile" 4 years of being a mediocre, inconsistent, soft team, and he's part of that core.

2. "future" he's a comalimentary part and could be replaced. He's not the guy, or distinguished himself as one to build a championship team around. Here now but with a culture change needed, he could be gone tomorrow.

3. He's shown leadership this year but leader of a mediocre team.

He may fit your criteria but this team needed, and still needs an identity. I'd much rather bring in someone outside of the Rochester Core, as they do not have 'it.'

Gausted?!?!?! Omg, his actions during the Miller run showed how much if a team guy he is, and he is supposed to be Millers friend. It took the hockey world calling him out for him to do anything. Plus, he's a 4th liner, at best. He should of been traded the week of the Lucic incident, traded as an example to the rest of players. Then you mention how Stafford deserves an 'A' A guy who shows up every 5th or 7th game. The joke of all of this, is that Ruff has every 'C' or 'A' wearer a Rochester Core guy. Any Real hockey fan knows those 6 shouldnt form, or couldn't form the core of a championship team. The sooner that 2-3 of that core goes bye-bye, the better for our team.

Really, you think Stafford deserves the 'A' before Regher? Hecht? Damn, id give it to Leopold, Sekera or Meyers before him.
Ok, so let me ask you, why does Regehr deserve an A? Before coming to Buffalo, he was involved in a franchise that was joke from pretty much the lockout. He has accomplished nothing, but he is a leader because he is tough? I'm assuming that is what you're insinuating. Stafford isn't an ideal leader, and he goes invisible from time to time, I'll admit that, however, giving an A to Regehr is basically a ***** slapping our core. Lindy wanted to send a message that this is their team, so step up and lead it, obviously so far they haven't done so. I hate this talk about captains having to be tough players, I would love it if they were, but look at Detroit, are their captains tough players? Datsyuk, Lidstrom, Zetterberg? Lidstrom doesn't go around throwing bo's at every player that crashes his crease, he barely throws a check, he is about as physical as Gragnani, he is a player that steps up to the occasion and leads his team by example. Pominville has done that for our team, he isn't the best captain in the league by any margin. Yeah I know, "he's not tough!" or "he's a complimentary piece!" No team wins the Cup with one player, he's a huge part of our team and there's a reason he's our captain. The guy works his ass off every shift, and has stepped up this year in terms of point production, the guy is leading our team for Christ's sake. I guess Vanek is a complimentary piece as well because if Pominville is, so is Vanek. In fact, if you were to ask around the league, I think Pominville would garner more interest than Vanek would.

He's our captain, ****ing deal with it. There are more ways to change the culture of the team than trade away our captain and arguably our best player so far this year. If we're trading him away, I want an elite difference maker coming back, I'm talking someone like Suter, Malkin, those kinds of players. Sorry, Bobby Ryan is not that kind of player.

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Old
12-12-2011, 09:49 PM
  #43
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I really wouldn't be surprised to see Poms be a career Sabre.

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12-13-2011, 06:26 AM
  #44
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By the way, since Pomminville is SO replacable, how many players have a better all around game then Pomminville? Not many. He is the kind of guy that every team would love to have. He puts up points, he plays very well defensively, he plays the PP he plays the PK. He does everything well, not elite, but well, except for hitting and fighting. He doesn't try to get cute with adding in an extra move either. Honestly there aren't many players that can do the same that aren't a latteral move. He is a player who plays the same game as Crosby (before you all start screaming, in no means is he on the same level as crosby, I'm just talking about the type of game he plays....) He's good in nearly every stat. Its very difficult to find a guy like that. Also, he NEVER gets hurt. The dude was an Ironman before last year, and that was a freak injury, not his body giving out. Honestly if the ONLY complaint you have about a player is "I know he's good at everything else, but he doesn't hit or fight enough". Then you really don't have much to complain about. Put him on a line with a big tough center of the Getzlaf mold and watch out.

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