Here are some of the last posts from the old thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am the Liquor
Dude, Tillman's hands are tied until he creates cap space. There is no free ride in the off season like there is in the nhl. The cap exists year round. He has to make the space BEFORE he can acquire someone else to be a replacement. Your scenario simply isnt the way things work in the cfl a lot of the time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Replacement
It was the worst ever offensive performance in Eskimos history. In over 60yrs of Eskimos history.
Never before have the Eskimos scored only 1 point.
Its one thing to have a beat up reciever core. Its another to give up on the game before the opening kickoff in a homegame. Ray had no try in that game whatsoever. He deserved the disdain from everybody that attended that game. The D kept us in it for awhile but you aren't in a game if you aren't on the scoreboard.
People talk about Henry Burris dissing the crowd? At least he did it with some intensity. Ray could give a **** that there were 35K in the stands that day and he went to the bench each time like a guy that just wanted the game over. Although that was by the 2nd quarter..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halibut
It's a team game.
We got there on the strength of an amazing defence that, much like this year, got us the ball in excellent field position. That whole season our offence was pitiful and couldnt move the ball especially in the redzone it just went downhill from there.
Ray gets his yards every year and looks like he should be an amazing quarterback but his teams have kept coming up short. He's smart and doesnt give up many interceptions but this isnt a guy who's had a bad year and is coming around this is almost exactly the same way he's played for the last 6 years. Someone posted the stats, the esks were 6th in first downs and 6th in points this season. I dont think he fits here and with all the OC's he's gone through here you'd think one would have got something that worked (including the guy who was back with BC this season)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoneman89
Wow, talk about over-reacting. Before you tear up you ticket renewal package and straddle the edge of the high level bridge, look at things realistically. RR in all likelihood is not going to get us back to the GC game. His best years are behind him. We just got a whole lot better with our Canadian content, and have some mobility in the QB position. This move had to happen sooner or later. Better to have it now and get it over with. We need some youth and legs in there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Live4Dogs
Without working on some of the flaws in his game? No, he likely wouldn't have. Common sense sort of dictates that if you're going to trade a player that has some decent value though, you get something at least somewhat valuable in return. The move does nothing to improve the team nor does it address the position going forward.
Perhaps ET is just destroying a rival team before he jumps ship back to Saskatchewan. He, after all, does still have a house there where he lives and spends most of his time even during the football year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoneman89
Good point. I remember people on here vilifying Chapdelaine, saying he was using RR all wrong and was hindering all that latent talent. And now, Chapdelaine looks really good with Lulay as his QB. Fact is, we 've gone through a whack of OC's here and none have managed to get our offence to where it needs to be, but some have been succesful elsewhere. Time to move on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Replacement
I'll repeat, and it should be obvious. In this capped league the Ray contract is negative value.
You don't get great return on an overpay in a smallcapped league. just moving that contract is win.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dustrock
ha ha came here to post this
Quote:
Originally Posted by bellagiobob
Let's see how the draft pick works out and what they do with the cap space they acquired before saying this does nothing to improve the team.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Replacement
I've made this point for years.
Several OC's, several changes in Oline, outstanding additions to the offensive arsenal at disposal and still nothing. the one constant always being Ray.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoneman89
You keep saying RR needs to work on his flaws. How long, pray tell, would you like to give him to correct those. You know, the ones like "reading a defence," or mastering the "2 step drop". By the time he masters those, you can give him a gold coloured walker.
And your last statement is absolutely too ridiculous to comment on. Take a pill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle McMahon
Wish Ray the best, hope he can turn his career around in Toronto. Glad Tillman had the foresight to unload him while he was still an asset.
That being said, if Henry Burris is anywhere near this team next year, count me out. As far as Ray has slipped in the last 5 months, Burris has slipped further (and was never very good to begin with) and would be a downgrade.
The next QB of this team shouldn't currently be in the league, unless it's Quinton Porter. Our scouting staff better have been paying very close attention on Saturday's this fall, picking out our next QB from the NCAA. Make a decent offer to a guy to come up here and make a career for himself. Jarret Lee out of LSU would be a guy to target. May not get drafted to the NFL, make him an offer that's better than being NFL training camp fodder.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoneman89
Sorry Replacement, but that's wrong. Close, but no cigar. I remember a game against Ottawa when Don Trull threw a franchise record 6 interceptions in a 17-0 loss to the Riders. Don't ask me how I can remember that. Now, where did I put my blinkin' glasses?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoneman89
Not to worry. Tillman was asked that very question point blank today, and said Burris was not an option.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle McMahon
Thank heavens, good to hear.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oilbleeder
Russel Wilson is the guy I think we could have a chance at.
He's reported as 5'11, but rumors are he's shorter than that.
Short QBs have had success in the NFL, but I'm not sure there has been any QB's 5'10 or even shorter to a.) get drafted and b.) have success.
The guy, as a prospect, is terrific. Fast release and really accurate.
He may get drafted in the NFL, and if so, dream over, but if he doesn't, maybe he signs with the Eskimos? (yes this is a reach most likely)
He's been developed in a pro style offense, can make all the throws, plays behind a line which is 6'5 average in height.
He'd be a good guy to get imo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Replacement
The EJ had it wrong then. They called it the lowest Eskimo point total in franchise history.
Don Trull. lol. Yeah I remember him and I think Rusty Clark. A very bad year. heh
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo
Even though I've been one of his biggest boosters I was apathetic towards Ray for much of this season despite watching him have a "bounce back" year. I thought that it was time for the player and the team to go their separate ways but I didn't picture being stuck with Steven Jyles and no legit QB in the fallout.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IvyEyezPK
Has this ever been printed or aired, that Ray does in fact call his own plays? In my opinion, he is only reading the plays. Not making the calls on his own.
Rider fan here... Trading Ray will give Tillman enough cap space to go after Fantuz in free agency, and dont be surprised if he leaves Regina for Edmonton. Tillman's hand is in that cookie jar already, I guarantee you.
If there's one thing I've learned about Tillman as a GM from his time in Saskatchewan, he doesn't make trades for the sake of making trades. There is an underlying reason as to why this was done. Tillman isn't stupid.
Well, that and not to leave him alone with babysitters and back medication
Thing is, as much as losing Ray sucks, Jyles isn't all that bad. Sure, he's not Ricky Ray, but he's not Cleo Lemon, either. He may not win you a lot of games on his own, but he won't lose you any either
Rider fan here... Trading Ray will give Tillman enough cap space to go after Fantuz in free agency, and dont be surprised if he leaves Regina for Edmonton. Tillman's hand is in that cookie jar already, I guarantee you.
If there's one thing I've learned about Tillman as a GM from his time in Saskatchewan, he doesn't make trades for the sake of making trades. There is an underlying reason as to why this was done. Tillman isn't stupid.
Well, that and not to leave him alone with babysitters and back medication
Thing is, as much as losing Ray sucks, Jyles isn't all that bad. Sure, he's not Ricky Ray, but he's not Cleo Lemon, either. He may not win you a lot of games on his own, but he won't lose you any either
Jyles is not an option for starting QB unless he tears it up in camp and wins the job. And that seems pretty unlikely at this point. Jyles had potential once upon a time, but bad coaching and development, mainly from Danny Maciocia, did him in.
A Russell Wilson-type scenario as described by Oilbleeder above is exactly the direction this team needs to go. Don't wait for a guy to get cut by 7 NFL teams and the arena league. Don't send out training camp invites to guys who are just about ready to settle into a career at McDonalds and will jump at the prospect of any contract offer. Make a real prospect a legitimate offer for decent money out of college to get him up here and develop him.
IATL do you remember a year or so back you said you would take Jyles over Ray? Now we'll see if you were on to something.
By the way I can't help but point out the similarities in stylebetween calvillo and ray. I have a feeling ray is going to have a pretty good year in Toronto.
Rider fan here... Trading Ray will give Tillman enough cap space to go after Fantuz in free agency, and dont be surprised if he leaves Regina for Edmonton. Tillman's hand is in that cookie jar already, I guarantee you.
If there's one thing I've learned about Tillman as a GM from his time in Saskatchewan, he doesn't make trades for the sake of making trades. There is an underlying reason as to why this was done. Tillman isn't stupid.
Well, that and not to leave him alone with babysitters and back medication
Thing is, as much as losing Ray sucks, Jyles isn't all that bad. Sure, he's not Ricky Ray, but he's not Cleo Lemon, either. He may not win you a lot of games on his own, but he won't lose you any either
I disagree, Jyles is worse that Lemon. Lemon has a better arm and if the Eskimos can't find a quarterback this year and need someone to fill the position Lemon might be a good choice.
I disagree, Jyles is worse that Lemon. Lemon has a better arm and if the Eskimos can't find a quarterback this year and need someone to fill the position Lemon might be a good choice.
Lemon could be one of the worst "starting" QBs I've seen in the CFL. Jyles looks like Bart Starr compared to Lemon.
Simply terrible move by the Eskimos.
The CFL is a QB league, and no matter what shakes out between now and the start of next season, the Esks will be starting a lesser QB.
IATL do you remember a year or so back you said you would take Jyles over Ray? Now we'll see if you were on to something.
By the way I can't help but point out the similarities in stylebetween calvillo and ray. I have a feeling ray is going to have a pretty good year in Toronto.
Yup. But pretty good isn't good enough here. Grey Cup or bust. If this is the next phase in us getting there, so be it. Tillman did a remarkable job in his 1st year as GM. Got 6 months before the season starts. Lots of time to fill in some holes. I wouldn't mind seeing Porter from Hamilton come here as a stop gap.
Simply terrible move by the Eskimos.
The CFL is a QB league, and no matter what shakes out between now and the start of next season, the Esks will be starting a lesser QB.
Ray had roughly 15 games to get his **** together after he started falling apart early in the year.. Sorry I like the guy but he wasn't going to get it together here. I hope we play him in the grey cup game next season
I disagree, Jyles is worse that Lemon. Lemon has a better arm and if the Eskimos can't find a quarterback this year and need someone to fill the position Lemon might be a good choice.
I agree, Lemon is a better option than Jyles. Lemon is for some reason considered a total punch line when it comes to CFL QB's, but the guy actually isn't half bad in a game-manager role. He protects the football a lot better than Jyles does. If you just commit to running the ball and don't ask him to go out and throw 40 yard passes, you can definitely survive with Cleo Lemon as your QB.
But as we all know, most coaches and co-ordinators insist on trying to put on an air show. Barker was no different, and blamed Lemon after every loss when the "lets air it out" strategy predicatably failed. A coach content to win 17-13 ball-control/field position games would do alright with a Lemon at QB.
Meh, bad deal for the Eskimos unless Tillman has a plan for the QB role, and NOT Burris. Burris is good but Tillman said they want to be younger and more mobile, Burris certainly isn't younger, neither is Buck Pierce but maybe he could be in the cards. I don't know what to think of this deal other than I better not see Jyles starting when summer comes.
Lemon could be one of the worst "starting" QBs I've seen in the CFL. Jyles looks like Bart Starr compared to Lemon.
When Lemon first came into the league he was terrible but last year he improved a great deal and I finally started becoming comfortable with him being quarterback. Than the argument with Barker came and the rest is history. Haven't seen Jyles with a full year under his belt so we can see what happens. Dalton Bell on the other hand
I agree, Lemon is a better option than Jyles. Lemon is for some reason considered a total punch line when it comes to CFL QB's, but the guy actually isn't half bad in a game-manager role. He protects the football a lot better than Jyles does. If you just commit to running the ball and don't ask him to go out and throw 40 yard passes, you can definitely survive with Cleo Lemon as your QB.
But as we all know, most coaches and co-ordinators insist on trying to put on an air show. Barker was no different, and blamed Lemon after every loss when the "lets air it out" strategy predicatably failed. A coach content to win 17-13 ball-control/field position games would do alright with a Lemon at QB.
Exactly how I see it. Lemon can't throw deep but is good at throwing short passes accurately and managing a game without turnovers. Barker is a idiot and i'm so glad he isn't the coach anymore. I'm looking forward to seeing what Scott Milanovich can do with Ray.
Geroy Simon @geroysimon 1 hr
Interesting on the Ricky Ray. Toronto just got better. The 3 other Western teams thanks Edmonton for trading a top Qb to the East
People can't say he is just tweeting something common, either. With his Tebow-related tweets, he tweets what he truly believes. Nice to to hear a future HOF give such high regard towards Ray.
Called it after the Western Semi-Final where the team won in spite of Ray. Tillman trades players when he thinks they're on the decline. And Ray was definitely on the decline.
In some ways, it is a surprise that Tillman actually had the guts to pull the trade off, but in other ways, it's not a surprise at all.
Of course, the end result remains to be seen, and Tillman will be judged on that. Maybe the Esks will suck like all hell next year, or maybe we'll finally get that mobile QB who can make the throws that we've been wanting for the last 3 years.
__________________
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"Pull yourself together!" - Solid Snake to Otacon, multiple times in the series
This move opens up a CRAP-LOAD of cap space as Ricky Ray is amongst the highest paid player in the league, so Tillman better have done this in order to bring someone worth starting. If he plans to just give our young QB's games and hopes for one of them to turn into a dark-horse (Case with Lulay in BC) he's taking the dumbest risk he could possibly have taken.
Assuming Jyles doesn't end up as our starter which better be the case, we now have to bring in another QB in that has to learn the Crandall offense which took Ray long enough to learn. We just have so much cap space open now that Ray is gone, whoever is in that QB position next season better be a ****ing stud, Tillman.
IATL do you remember a year or so back you said you would take Jyles over Ray? Now we'll see if you were on to something.
By the way I can't help but point out the similarities in stylebetween calvillo and ray. I have a feeling ray is going to have a pretty good year in Toronto.
Yah, I know what you mean, man. Well, other than the arm and quick release, right?
Eskimos must go after Macpherson from Montreal at this point. He is ready to be a starter and is a young, very mobile quarterback. Jyles is one of the worst pocket passers in the league. If anything, this deal gives us some cap space. But honestly, we didn't get much else in this trade.
IATL do you remember a year or so back you said you would take Jyles over Ray? Now we'll see if you were on to something.
By the way I can't help but point out the similarities in stylebetween calvillo and ray. I have a feeling ray is going to have a pretty good year in Toronto.
No I dont but I would take Tom Wilkinson over Ricky Ray at this point. The win is in getting him and his ridiculous contract out of here.
I dont know what Tillman's plan is but Im pretty sure he has one. What he's done so far has me feeling comfortably optimistic about the future.
Reading between the lines of his interview with Gregor, it seems he/they made up their minds that they needed a mobile QB stat. They probably have designs on spreading out Ray's cap space to address other areas of need.
Lets face it, Tillman inherited a real mess. I think I was a toddler the last time the Eskimos were as bad as the Maciocia era. Back in the late sixties or so. That means there is much work to do in order to bring the team back up to snuff.
People like to throw out his league leading QB rating, but that is really a mirage. As Stoneman said and Tillman stated in his interview, the Eskies were sixth in first downs and points scored this year. In an eight team league. So the way I see it, even if we are worse offensively, we dont have very far to fall.
Tillman also alluded to the fact that Ray is a declining asset, and if they were ever to get anything at all for him, now was the time to do it. Tambellini should be taking notes, although it is probably too late in many instances.
We have nothing to lose and everything to gain. We got rid of a guy that cost too much and wasnt producing results. We gained a young, strong Canadian kicker (another area of need), a high draft pick (need that too) and a meh QB, who is probably better suited to this team than Ray was. At least he can run for his life when the O-line breaks down. Ray would just fumble the ball away or curl up into a ball.
Wait and see I say. Im prepared to take it on the chin for a year or even two if it means this team will be strong going forward. Much like the hockey team. Although the football team has competent management that I trust, while we are still being Maciocia'd by the hockey team.
