Pretty simple question: is a team that is built around the "Rochester Core" good enough to win us a Cup in your mind?
I am referring to a core of Vanek, Roy, Pominville, Stafford, Gaustad, and Miller.
Is a Cup attainable with them as the core, plus the additional complementary pieces? Or will a shakeup of that group need to happen, in your eyes, before the Cup can be won?
You know who I do consider part of that core though...Jochen Hecht. Although he didn't come through the system, he's been here the entire tenure of those players, and has been a top 6ish guy for this time their entire stay here. He's part of the "core" albeit not from Rochester. (Not singling him out, but he needs to be included in that group IMO)
To a large extent, we've sen what these guys are capable of, and I don't think they're good enough to win a Cup without some big upgrades.
In the last couple of post-seasons, the only guys on that list to really show up (much less elevate their game) were Miller, Vanek, and Poms. Roy completely wilted - though to be fair it's hard to hold Roy's single game last year against him - his performance against the Bruins is damning enough. Stafford was a complete no show, no better than Gaustad's 3 points in 13 GP.
Pick two of those forwards, 3 at the most, and move the rest. I'd probably start with Roy and Stafford, and then Gaustad can go unless he's willing to take a pay cut.
To a large extent, we've sen what these guys are capable of, and I don't think they're good enough to win a Cup without some big upgrades.
In the last couple of post-seasons, the only guys on that list to really show up (much less elevate their game) were Miller, Vanek, and Poms. Roy completely wilted - though to be fair it's hard to hold Roy's single game last year against him - his performance against the Bruins is damning enough. Stafford was a complete no show, no better than Gaustad's 3 points in 13 GP.
Pick two of those forwards, 3 at the most, and move the rest. I'd probably start with Roy and Stafford, and then Gaustad can go unless he's willing to take a pay cut.
Perfectly put jlr... I really think that Poms and Vanek should stay and the others need to be moved for higher top end talent. The injuries this year have shown me that we have some excellent depth when it comes to good players but truely lack difference makers.
You people still don't get that roy is good for what he is. He is a #2 center, and a damn good one. He's not a number one and probably never will be. Don't expect more from him then your gonna get. Put of all those wingers the one who should be traded is stafford. He is young and very talented, but he is redundant while kassian is around. Package him with another players, picks and prospects for a number one center, or at least another number two.
I'm not voting, because I don't think the players in the "Rochester core" are "the core" themselves anymore.
If the Rochester core was the actual core of the team, I'd vote no. However, we've got a few players that have been added to the core that make us threats for the next few years.
Ehrhoff, Myers, and Regehr are very much part of that core.
A core built around those three, Vanek, Pominville, Miller, and one other go-to forward would be good enough to win the cup.
If we're sort of defining "core" as the central / best players on the team, then no.
Exactly. They're not, and I don't think most people expected them to be good enough to win the cup with them as our best players. I think they can certainly be a large part of a Cup winning team, but if they are it for go-to guys, then no, I don't think they're good enough.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loods
I'm not voting, because I don't think the players in the "Rochester core" are "the core" themselves anymore.
If the Rochester core was the actual core of the team, I'd vote no. However, we've got a few players that have been added to the core that make us threats for the next few years.
Ehrhoff, Myers, and Regehr are very much part of that core.
A core built around those three, Vanek, Pominville, Miller, and one other go-to forward would be good enough to win the cup.
Essentially what I was trying to say, but this is more concise.
With the evidence we've seen in the playoffs the past couple years...definite no.
I think that some of the core (Vanek, Pommer, Miller and Roy to a lesser extent) are solid.
I don't buy Stafford as a core player, at least not with how he's been struggling for most of this year.
I love Goose's effort, but he's basically a bottom 9 faceoff/pk guy. Good guy to have, but not irreplaceable by any means.
Basically, if we make the playoffs, some of our team shows up every game and Vanek and Poms play like they have been...we'll probably get bounced in the 2nd round. That's about as far as we're going IMO until this team becomes mentally/physically tougher, with most of the emphasis on the mental part.
A well built team with some injury luck wins a Cup. I'm not blaming our lack of playoff success on small handful of players. Nor am I expecting that small group to carry a team, particularly when they've never been healthy in a playoff series together.
not the core players fault... not the coaches fault...
It' must be the role players supporting the core... and oh yea, management who built the core and has kept the coach... it's management's fault...
I'm saying we need more talent added to what we already have.
Did Toews, Kane, Keith and Seabrook suddenly forget how to perform in the playoffs last year? Or did they lose some key teammates in free agency and then lost Bolland to injury for the first 3 games of their series?
How about the Ducks since McDonald departed? Even with Getzlaf, Perry, Pronger and Nieds.
I'm saying we need more talent added to what we already have.
Did Toews, Kane, Keith and Seabrook suddenly forget how to perform in the playoffs last year? Or did they lose some key teammates in free agency and then lost Bolland to injury for the first 3 games of their series?
How about the Ducks since McDonald departed? Even with Getzlaf, Perry, Pronger and Nieds.
so it's management's fault (GM, Scouts, etc)
got it...
Under ideal circumstances, shift everyone on the roster down 1 line for where they should really be. This team doesn't have top end talent, especially up front. Except for Vanek...he could be a 1st liner on top teams.
so it's management's fault (GM, Scouts, etc)
got it...
Management's fault for what? If they fail to make headway this upcoming playoffs its certainly on management. But we've seen enough since Pegula took over to know with the previous owner, Regier had his hands tied on contract/personel decisions.
They need to step it up, they've only had two playoffs series since Drury and Briere left, so if we make it this year, and we see that they don't make it past the first round, I think management will figure it out.
Management's fault for what? If they fail to make headway this upcoming playoffs its certainly on management. But we've seen enough since Pegula took over to know with the previous owner, Regier had his hands tied on contract/personel decisions.
Not the coaches fault for not maximizing the talent he was given?
