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Craig Button's top-60 for 2012, December edition

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Old
12-13-2011, 02:00 PM
  #26
Pulkkinen
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Still no Tomas Hertl, and I don't understand it. Kid was lights out before his injury, and he was a key player for Slavia Praha at Extraliga with only 17, playing better than Dmitrij Jaskin. He has size, skills, maybe not the speedest player on the ice, but he manages to do the things good. He's on the Czech Camp for the WJC, hope he made the final team and can prove his talent.

Nikolai Prokhorkin seems as another forgotten prospect because of injuries. Before his fight against Nesterov, kid was playing good. Made some good numbers at MHL and promoted to KHL. Maybe when we're approaching to Draft day we can talk about the "factors", but right now, if we're talking about skills and talent, Prokhorkin deserves some love.

Besides that, i still don't understand the stock of some defenseman of this year's promotion. Now, Matt Finn is a Top 15 player, Slater Koekkoek is at 29 when ISS ranked him pretty well last month, Olli Maatta, who improved his offensive aportation -same with Nick Ebert- is also in his way down, and ISS also ranked him well, Gianluca Curcuruto dissapeared, and Hampus Lindholm and Ludvig Bystrom remains well ranked, when other lists hardly mention both -maybe searching another "Jonas Brodin" in the making-. Also thought that Jordan Schmaltz was first round material.

Man, this Draft is going to be crazy.

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Old
12-13-2011, 02:03 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanHPscout View Post
Craig has made a number of good rankings here. I suppose one, if not the biggest area I disagree is with Brendan Gaunce

We've had him anywhere between #6 and #8 in Sept/Oct/Nov rankings. I strongly doubt that will change at all. Not only is he an extremely talented player, he's an outstanding kid. Someone is going to come up with a great pick with him, and I think as the year goes on you'll see some of the other rankings out there follow suit with ours, and obviously your judgement of Gaunce to the 5-10 area.
Pretty easy to see that their are a lot of other posters with positive opinions on Gaunce. This is exactly what I meant when I mentioned leadership abilities - watch any interview with him and he is just an insanely mature person for his age, reminds me a lot of Toews but a little less intense.

Also is there a place I can check out your rankings? Possibly PM me a link?

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Old
12-13-2011, 02:08 PM
  #28
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Wish there was more video on Forsberg...if there is, I can't find any. I think at #2 Ducks would draft Grigorenko without looking back. Hell even Dumba or Murray before Forsberg. But again, I haven't seen enough of him yet to make that call.

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12-13-2011, 02:12 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by DuckJet View Post
Wish there was more video on Forsberg...if there is, I can't find any. I think at #2 Ducks would draft Grigorenko without looking back. Hell even Dumba or Murray before Forsberg. But again, I haven't seen enough of him yet to make that call.
This is a site of one of the HF Partners on this board. Not too bad, has a feature on Forsberg worth readying.

http://hockeylobby.blogspot.com/

As for Button's list, Grigorenko at #6 is a joke. Especially considering Galchenyuk and Reilly suffered serious injuries and probably won't play another game this season.

Oh yeah, Murray at #10.

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Old
12-13-2011, 02:15 PM
  #30
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Why does Craig Button release these ranks throughout the year? Button is a moron...
We go to the draft and for the most part listen to Bob MacKenzie make great points about prospects and his lists are usually pretty accurate. I'll take Bob's list over Button's list all day.

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Old
12-13-2011, 02:18 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pulkkinen View Post
Still no Tomas Hertl, and I don't understand it. ...

... Nikolai Prokhorkin seems as another forgotten prospect because of injuries. ...
Button says he doesn't rank prospects that he hasn't seen, so it might take a while before you see those players in his ranking.

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Old
12-13-2011, 02:19 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
Can anyone tell me more about Radek Faksa? He seems like an intriguing possibility for the Pens in the first round.
If he were North American he'd probably be a dream Shero 1st Rounder. Size, skating, good offensive instincts. There's a reason he's leading all OHL rookies in scoring, he's a quality prospect. Have only gotten to watch him once (in Niagara's undersized rink), so I would need a few more viewings in regular rinks before I can say if he does anything really elite.

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Old
12-13-2011, 02:30 PM
  #33
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Sorry but Craig is off his rocker with this ranking... he has stuck to the pre-season "consensus" that this was a deep draft in d-men and special for d-men in the top 10 (he has 5 of them there though he has Ryan Murray the"conensus" top d-man for he draft at the start of the year only as 5th best d-man and thus #10 on his list...he further componds his errors by not having the best overall D-man CODY CECI as only #19 ....Contrast all this to KYLE WOODLIEF of Redline who said the draft wasn't as deep as he first thought and the implication was several of the early conensus highly thought of d-men had disappointed in their play (underachied) or got hurt and so no chance to guage if they improved to the level expected or not...

RATHER to me it is several forwards who have "surprised" to the upside AND the emergence of MALCOLM SUBBAN to possible "franchise goalie" projection that probaly should displace several of Button's too highly ranked D-men out of the top ten...


The RADEK FAKSA, BRENDAN GAUNCE and DANIIL ZHARKOV are all ranked way way too low by Button --there play as "RISERS" from where they were considered at the start of the year is more worthy of top ten than are Dumba,Reilly (albeit injured now) ,Reinhart and Trouba --all of whom the "RISER" ,CECI.has surpassed in play,IMO, to date this season ..as for RYAN MURRAY he is playing on a bad Everitt team this year and also was injured and I don't think he can fall out of the top ten -so I think he is at least #2 best D-man if indeed CECI should be #1 dman now..

I would therefore say the top ten was:

1. Malcolm Subban (because a franchise goalie --especially a Canadian one--comes around so rarely lately).

2. Nail Yakopov
3. Filip Forsberg

SO at least I agree wity Button they are the 2 top forwards in the draft...


4. Mikhail Grigorenko
5. Radek Faksa
6. Brendan Gaunce
7. Daniil Zarkov
8. Cody Ceci
9. Ryan Murray
10.PONTUS ABERG
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11. *ALEX GALCHENYUK


* obviously he has not played this year and willbe out probably the entire season with ACL surgery ---scouts can go by what they saw last season BUT have no basis to see if he kept on improving -like others have --and to see if he improved on his one big flaw--skating speed....so he is a bit riskier to really assess properly..HE may stillbe a #5 overall "value" as the best forward after Yakupov Forsberg and Grigorenko OR he may indeed have been bypassed by Faksa,Gaunce and Zharkov (the 3 big "risers" of the first half) ...


SO no doubt he still is in the 5-12 ranking range ,but exactly where in the range is a guess..I'm guessing at #11..

I put PONTUS ABERG at #10 because he as a first-time draft eligible is doing so very well against MEN in the SEL--and everyone else in the top ten are just playing Jr. level ...You have to credit this aspect...


You can put D-men Dumba,Reilly,Reinhart and Trouba and Pouliot along with the forward Girgensons --in the 12-17 range with Girgensons probably 13th or 14th ..

I think that about confims the conensus of what most SHOULD now think on this...

STILL potential risers yet: MAYBE goalie OSKAR DANSK --I doubt he projects to franchise goalie potential like I see in Subban-but we''l see how he plays for Denmark at the WJHC then assess whetherhe "rises" or "falls" from where Button has him...


ALSO: PHIL DI GIUSEPPE ---making a bigger impression for Team Canada Jrs in the first 2 inter-squad contests than many of the highly hyped already drafted forwards there .IF he makes the final cuts and shines at the WJHC-his stock assuredly will RISE...


HOWEVER even if you disagree with my rankings,you must admit Button is way way off on how far down he has Subban,Faksa,Gaunce, and Zharkov and probably Di Giuseppe too...

I think my assessment is more along the lines of the"impression" felt by Kyle Woodlief in that many of the hyped D-men at the top end of thios draft have not delivered on their "promise" this season and should be or should have impacted to a greater degreethan they have and by implication this means several riser forwards and goalie Subban have filled the gaps they leave up in the top part of round one(Woodlief doesn't seem to recognize the replacement value of these obvious risers and instead just downgrades the entire draft for not living upto his earlier expectations,wheas I DO recognize the better than expected performances of these risers...

IF I am correct--2012 willbe remembered not as an exceptionally deep year for D-men cooming from the top end f the first round but rather as a great forwardcrop and (if I am right)--a rare "franchise goalie"...


The standard I apply to downgrading the d-men -apart from CECI overtaking them all
as the best combo of size.offense and defense i one pckage is that he himself--as do all the others-is nowhere near as good as Dougie Hamilton from last year's draft in projecting as a top pairing NHL d-man...

So where the early consensus was that the d-men were better from this draft than allbut maybe 3 or 4 forwards and no goaies--I think that NOW must be reconsidered and reversed..We have been "surprised" by risers and fallers but in this case more d-men have fallen several notches and more forwards risen many notches and one goalie has just been a "wall" and providing highlight reel athletcic saves to go along with consistent technical positioning -basically doing it all (he also handles the puck very well and is feisty--will fight back and not take gudff from guys coming into his creaseor running him...Subban has elevated his game to where he looks like a special goalie who might be that once in a generation "franchise" guy ...

THE caution is--asalways-we have not yet gone through a full season -with more than half still to come --so risers could fall.fallers could rise back up,and surprises may still yet show up...

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Old
12-13-2011, 03:12 PM
  #34
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Some of the OHL stuff doesn't really make a ton of sense to me. Button makes some gutsy calls I agree with (Finn high, Marcantuoni low, for example). But then there's some other stuff that just doesn't seem to flow.

Zach Leslie is an interesting prospect and a guy who could most certainly be a solid mid-late round gamble. He has some offensive upside. But him ahead of the likes of Maatta, Ebert, Blujus, Curcuruto, Graham, doesn't make sense IMO. He must have seen him on November 18 or 19th, when he scored over 50% of his points to date.

And Tanner Richard. Solid re-entry candidate. Has been an excellent player for Guelph. But that high? I don't buy it at this point. IMO, he doesn't hold a candle to Tanner Pearson (call it the two Tanner's) in terms of draft ranking for re-entries.

And I still don't get how Brendan Gaunce can be as low as he is. Everyone else seems to be rocketing him up their lists...yet Button remains at a stand still.

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Old
12-13-2011, 03:31 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Tormentor View Post
Link to TSN.

RK Player Last Team DOB Pos. S Ht/Wt GP G A Pts +/-
1. Nail Yakupov 1 Sarnia (OHL) 10/6/93 RW L 5'11/183 24 19 30 49 17
2. Filip Forsberg 2 Leksands (SWE) 9/13/94 LW R 6'1/196 26 4 3 7 -1
3. Mathew Dumba 3 Red Deer (WHL) 8/25/94 D R 5'11/175 30 10 12 22 2
4. Morgan Rielly 4 Moose Jaw (WHL) 3/9/94 D L 6'0/198 17 3 15 18 6
5. Alex Galchenyuk 5 Sarnia (OHL) 2/12/94 C L 6'1/197 0 0 0 0 0
6. Mikhail Grigorenko 6 Quebec (QMJHL) 10/16/94 C L 6'2/183 34 24 30 54 19
7. Griffin Reinhart 8 Edmonton (WHL) 1/24/94 D L 6'3/202 24 6 10 16 10
8. Jacob Trouba 9 US NTDP 2/26/94 D R 6'1/193 26 2 8 10
9. Zemgus Girgensons 7 Dubuque (USHL) 1/5/94 C L 6'1/197 20 9 12 21 3
10. Ryan Murray 10 Everett (WHL) 9/27/93 D L 6'0/199 11 3 4 7 -5
11. Matt Finn 41 Guelph (OHL) 2/24/94 D L 6'0/197 26 6 18 24 -2
12. Pontus Aberg 12 Djurgardens (SWE) 9/23/93 LW R 5'11/187 29 7 7 14 2
13. Derrick Pouliot 11 Portland (WHL) 1/16/94 D L 5'11/181 34 5 21 26 -2
14. Hampus Lindholm 13 Rogle (SWE) 1/20/94 D L 6'2/180 26 4 11 15 22
15. Ludvig Bystrom 14 MODO (SWE) 8/20/94 D L 6'0/176 22 5 14 19 9
16. Teuvo Teravianen 15 Jokerit (FIN) 9/11/94 RW L 5'10/150 11 12 8 20
17. Sebastien Collberg 16 Frolunda (SWE) 2/23/94 RW R 5'11/169 14 4 5 9 1
18. Gemel Smith 18 Owen Sound (OHL) 4/16/94 LW L 5'11/165 33 15 18 33 11
19. Cody Ceci 17 Ottawa (OHL) 12/21/93 D R 6'2/208 30 7 25 32 13
20. Jarrod Maidens 18 Owen Sound (OHL) 3/4/94 LW L 6'1/175 29 12 11 23 -2
21. Radek Faksa 22 Kitchener (OHL) 1/9/94 C L 6'1/183 30 15 17 32 14
22. Michael Matheson 21 Dubuque (USHL) 2/27/94 D L 6'1/178 22 4 3 7 -4
23. Malcolm Subban 34 Belleville (OHL) 12/21/93 G L 6'1/189 17 12 1.92 .939 2
24. Oscar Dansk 23 Brynas (SWE) 2/28/94 G L 6'2/183 12 2.88 .903 2
25. Andreas Athanasiou 26 London (OHL) 8/6/94 C L 6'0/173 31 11 9 20 8
26. Brendan Gaunce 28 Belleville (OHL) 3/25/94 C L 6'2/215 31 18 17 35 13
27. Martin Frk 20 Halifax (QMJHL) 10/5/93 RW R 6'0/204 3 1 0 1 -2
28. Damon Severson 32 Kelowna (WHL) 8/7/94 D R 6'1/188 31 4 16 20 2
29. Slater Koekkoek 25 Peterborough (OHL) 2/18/94 D L 6'2/183 26 5 13 18 -7
30. Tom Wilson 27 Plymouth (OHL) 3/29/94 RW R 6'4/195 25 5 10 15 13
31. Phillip Di Giuseppe - Michigan (CCHA) 10/9/93 LW L 5'11/176 16 7 5 12 8
32. Ludvig Nilsson 33 Timra (SWE) 03/28/94 C L 6'1/173 25 9 7 16 14
33. Scott Laughton 30 Oshawa (OHL) 5/30/94 C L 6'0/179 29 4 16 20 3
34. Raphael Bussieres 24 Baie-Comeau (QMJHL) 11/5/93 LW L 6'1/195 28 11 19 30 10
35. Michael Clarke 29 Windsor (OHL) 4/29/94 C L 6'11/184 35 11 9 20 4
36. Adam Pelech 30 Erie (OHL) 8/18/94 D L 6'1/198 8 0 6 6 2
37. Brady Vail 59 Windsor (OHL) 3/11/94 LW L 6'0/195 35 11 16 27 0
38. Daniil Zharkov 50 Belleville (OHL) 2/6/94 LW L 6'3/195 14 13 4 17 7
39. Nicolas Kerdiles 40 US NTDP 1/11/94 LW L 6'1/183 26 11 5 16
40. Zach Leslie - Guelph (OHL) 1/31/94 D L 6'0/172 29 1 8 9 -4
41. Valeri Vasiliyev 46 Spartak Moscow (KHL) 5/31/94 D L 6'1/183 18 1 1 2
42. Jordan Schmaltz 39 Green Bay (USHL) 10/8/93 D R 6'1/185 19 5 6 11 -1
43. Patrick Sieloff - US NTDP 5/14/94 D L 6'0/198 26 3 3 6
44. Andrei Vasilevski 42 Ufa (KHL) 8/25/94 G L 6'3/200 14 2.52 .920
45. Tanner Richard - Guelph (OHL) 4/6/93 C L 5'11/182 30 10 24 34 3
46. Nick Ebert 37 Windsor (OHL) 5/11/94 D R 5'11/199 35 2 13 15 3
47. Olli Maatta 38 London (OHL) 8/22/94 D L 6'1/196 31 1 14 15 17
48. Brady Skeji 47 US NTDP 3/26/94 D L 6'1/183 26 1 7 8
49. Jon Gillies 51 Indiana (USHL) 1/22/94 G L 6'4/210 20 12 2.50 .922 1
50. Anton Slepyshev 44 Penza (RUS) 5/13/94 LW R 6'0/160 24 4 2 6
51. Cristoval Nieves 54 Kent (USHSE) 1/23/94 LW L 6'2/184 0 0 0 0 0
52. Scott Kosmachuk 53 Guelph (OHL) 1/24/94 RW R 5'11/185 30 14 11 25 -18
53. Coda Gordon - Swift Curent (WHL) 8/4/94 LW L 6'0/175 30 13 16 29 7
54. Ville Pokka 43 Karpat Oulu (FIN) 6/3/94 D R 5'11/198 34 4 14 18
55. Colton Sissons 48 Kelowna (WHL) 11/5/93 RW R 5'11/193 31 16 6 22 -9
56. Matia Marcantuoni 36 Kitchener (OHL) 2/22/94 RW R 5'11/191 19 7 3 10 3
57. Daniel Altshuller 49 Oshawa (OHL) 7/24/94 G L 6'3/193 20 6 3.64 .897 0
58. Dalton Thrower 52 Saskatoon (WHL) 12/20/93 D R 6'0/185 32 4 13 17 -2
59. Devin Shore - Whitby (OJHL) 7/19/94 C L 6'0/184 24 13 17 30
60. Dane Fox - London (OHL) 10/13/93 C L 6'0/185 28 12 16 28 16
laughable list at best

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Old
12-13-2011, 03:34 PM
  #36
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Wish there was more video on Forsberg...if there is, I can't find any. I think at #2 Ducks would draft Grigorenko without looking back. Hell even Dumba or Murray before Forsberg. But again, I haven't seen enough of him yet to make that call.
00:46 and 02:31 in this video shows a couple of goals:

http://www.leksandsif.se/7811.php

Scroll down to see video

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Old
12-13-2011, 03:51 PM
  #37
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Why does Craig Button release these ranks throughout the year? Button is a moron...
We go to the draft and for the most part listen to Bob MacKenzie make great points about prospects and his lists are usually pretty accurate. I'll take Bob's list over Button's list all day.
Because no matter how much you hate Button, he's actually watching these players, Bob MacKenzie isn't.

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Old
12-13-2011, 04:23 PM
  #38
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Because no matter how much you hate Button, he's actually watching these players, Bob MacKenzie isn't.
Right, but BM is getting his info from scouts so it's not like we're talking about a shot in the dark here. Button's got cred, regardless of what many posters on this board seem to think. His preferences might not jive with the "consensus" but it's not like he's talking out of his *** here.

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Old
12-13-2011, 04:28 PM
  #39
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Right, but BM is getting his info from scouts so it's not like we're talking about a shot in the dark here. Button's got cred, regardless of what many posters on this board seem to think. His preferences might not jive with the "consensus" but it's not like he's talking out of his *** here.
Well yeah but MacKenzie can't ask those scouts for their opinons every couple weeks.

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Old
12-13-2011, 05:42 PM
  #40
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who is matt finn?

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Old
12-13-2011, 06:24 PM
  #41
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Grigorenko at 6? Murray at 10? ahhhhh......

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Old
12-13-2011, 06:28 PM
  #42
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Faksa is also still too low too. He is a rookie in the OHL on the Rangers in his first season in NA playing on the second line he is over a PPG player and plays the PK and PP and is out there in all situations while having really good size (6'3") vision, passing ability, and a killer shot. Very good defensive player too.

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Old
12-13-2011, 06:46 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tormentor View Post
Link to TSN.

RK Player Last Team DOB Pos. S Ht/Wt GP G A Pts +/-
35. Michael Clarke 29 Windsor (OHL) 4/29/94 C L 6'11/184 35 11 9 20 4
Whoa, Michael Clarke is how tall??

Craig made a boo boo.

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Old
12-13-2011, 06:48 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prophet of Glennie View Post
Well yeah but MacKenzie can't ask those scouts for their opinons every couple weeks.
Sure he can...As a reporter and want someone to be your source, you usually talk to the frequently (daily, weekly) whatever the case maybe. If MacKenize just reaches out to scouts in September, December, and April to get scouts rankings for a story, its highly unlikely they would go off the record for him.

But its highly likely MacKenize shoots the s*** with scouts on a regular basis and he earns their trust so when it comes for his draft rankings, he can get what he needs

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12-13-2011, 06:48 PM
  #45
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hawksfan.. did you just put Subban at number 1 overall? Lol.. good luck with that. No team would pick him first overall, especially in this draft.

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12-13-2011, 07:02 PM
  #46
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hawksfan.. did you just put Subban at number 1 overall? Lol.. good luck with that. No team would pick him first overall, especially in this draft.
I was pretty surprised to see such a long post devoted to how bad CB's list was, to then read hawksfan claim Malcolm Subban should go 1st overall

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12-13-2011, 11:04 PM
  #47
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I will take Maatta at 47 everyday.

Malcolm Subban is rising quickly it seems. Last list I read he wasn't in the top 2 rounds.

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12-13-2011, 11:16 PM
  #48
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I get it that he is watching these players, but for some reason frk doesnt fall when hes injured, yet falls when he returns??? I dont think button has been to a game since his return. Also I can't see many people passing on grigorenko at 3rd or 4th at this point. I would assume galchenyuk will also fall due to injury.

I never liked buttons lists at all, really nice guy who genuinely loves scouting and does his best...just makes a lot of bad projections.

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12-13-2011, 11:17 PM
  #49
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I want to know what is causing Filip Forsberg to rise. Don't get me wrong, I like him, I just haven't had any chance to see him. One points in six games in the J20 is not that of a second overall, but the 7 in 24 in Allsvenskan is a bit better.

Can we see him at the WJs?

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12-14-2011, 03:59 AM
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WayneBruce
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Originally Posted by The Dayvan Cowboy View Post
I want to know what is causing Filip Forsberg to rise. Don't get me wrong, I like him, I just haven't had any chance to see him. One points in six games in the J20 is not that of a second overall, but the 7 in 24 in Allsvenskan is a bit better.

Can we see him at the WJs?
He will play in the WJC. In his J20 team he mostly plays on the lower lines to get some extra icetime. Also, its not really about points for european prospects. SEL-2 is a very good league, many of the teams have recently played in the SEL and many are good enough to be there. Young players don´t get a lot of icetime and thats the case with Forsberg. He has played great for the U20 national team though, he was 4+1 in three games against good competition recently. I have no idea how good he is compared to the other top draft eligible players in NA, I guess we will see in the WJC where he will play.


Last edited by WayneBruce: 12-14-2011 at 05:33 AM.
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