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Craig Button's top-60 for 2012, December edition

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Old
12-14-2011, 08:51 AM
  #51
bennitez7
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I would be really surprised if grigorenko and murray won't get drafted earlier.
I also think that someone will draft tanner pearson in the first two rounds.
Gaunce should go earlier as well.

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Old
12-14-2011, 09:00 AM
  #52
IFK
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Originally Posted by SoupyFIN View Post
I knew it that Määttä was gonna fall eventually, but that far? Well, I guess its better for him not to be a top20 pick- less pressure and lower expectations sure don't do harm. Pokka is a bit too high IMO, somewhere around 70-80 should be alright.
Yes, this guy is out of any knowing to put this kind of draft lists if he put Määttä out of first round, Forberg to 2nd and Grigorenko to 6st?

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12-14-2011, 09:06 AM
  #53
WayneBruce
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Originally Posted by IFK View Post
Yes, this guy is out of any knowing to put this kind of draft lists if he put Määttä out of first round, Forberg to 2nd and Grigorenko to 6st?
Many have put Forsberg top 3

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Old
12-14-2011, 09:14 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by charlamov71 View Post
Many have put Forsberg top 3
Yes, cause he is from Sweden... But yes, he is good player, but i don't think he is in top 2 or stuck even top 3, maybe top 5. But let see what he do in WJC cause his numbers in Elitserien are so low and we have players in FEL who have close or better numbers than him and some of them are D or younger and there is not that much differense with this 2 league. Still, Forsberg has good size, hands and he is very good prospect.

I remember that Forsberg plays in Elitserien, but he plays in Allsvenskan and those points are horrible. Still, let see what he can do in WJC and what Määttä, Ristolainen, Pokka and Barkov can do there in Finnish team!


Last edited by IFK: 12-14-2011 at 09:23 AM.
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Old
12-14-2011, 09:20 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by IFK View Post
Yes, cause he is from Sweden... But yes, he is good player, but i don't think he is in top 2 or stuck even top 3, maybe top 5. But let see what he do in WJC cause his numbers in Elitserien are so low and we have players in FEL who have close or better numbers than him and some of them are D or younger and there is not that much differense with this 2 league. Still, Forsberg has good size, hands and he is very good prospect.
Well, I think Button went to the Ivan Hlinka tournament to watch Forsberg. Pretty much everyone who watched the tournament said Forsberg was the best player there. Grigorenko also played but did not perform well apparently. Then again, its difficult to compare players that plays in totally different leagues and countries. Its easier to compare the players in the WJC where we can see them all play.

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12-14-2011, 09:28 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by charlamov71 View Post
Well, I think Button went to the Ivan Hlinka tournament to watch Forsberg. Pretty much everyone who watched the tournament said Forsberg was the best player there. Grigorenko also played but did not perform well apparently. Then again, its difficult to compare players that plays in totally different leagues and countries. Its easier to compare the players in the WJC where we can see them all play.
WJC will make big impact for his draft rankings. He have been very good player at international games when i have watched him but he didn't impress me in couple Allsvenskan games. Good WJC's will get him into top 5 maybe even top 3, bad WJC below 10, average WJC top 8. I predict the first one.

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Old
12-14-2011, 09:31 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by charlamov71 View Post
Well, I think Button went to the Ivan Hlinka tournament to watch Forsberg. Pretty much everyone who watched the tournament said Forsberg was the best player there.
Are you joking? No they praise to firt Alexander Barkov and also Teräväinen. Maybe Button was praising Forberg?

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12-14-2011, 10:19 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by IFK View Post
Are you joking? No they praise to firt Alexander Barkov and also Teräväinen. Maybe Button was praising Forberg?
Yeah Barkov played great apparently. Just googling around to find lists I cant find one that includes all prospects, only 2012 eligible. Teräväinen did play great looking at points, but i can´t find him high on any list. I don´t really have my own opinion on this because none of the games Sweden played were streamed, and i doubt you were there either. Button was at the Hlinka, and Forsberg stood out the most in his opinion, therefore his list. That was my main point.

Pure lists from people who were there:

ESPN insider
http://www.therxforum.com/showthread.php?t=858753

TSN (Button)
http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=48520


Last edited by WayneBruce: 12-14-2011 at 10:32 AM.
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Old
12-14-2011, 10:38 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by James Norris View Post
Why does Craig Button release these ranks throughout the year? Button is a moron...
We go to the draft and for the most part listen to Bob MacKenzie make great points about prospects and his lists are usually pretty accurate. I'll take Bob's list over Button's list all day.
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Originally Posted by Prophet of Glennie View Post
Because no matter how much you hate Button, he's actually watching these players, Bob MacKenzie isn't.
Plus, if you look at McKenzie's last rankings, his top 10 is very similar to Button's. If anything, Button's top 10 is more current and accurate, since McKenzie still has Ebert and Marcantuoni in the top 10. I would take Reinhart and Girgensons (whom Button has in his top 10 instead) over those two any day. The rest of their top 10s are virtually identical, just the positioning is a little bit different.

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Originally Posted by The Dayvan Cowboy View Post
I want to know what is causing Filip Forsberg to rise. Don't get me wrong, I like him, I just haven't had any chance to see him. One points in six games in the J20 is not that of a second overall, but the 7 in 24 in Allsvenskan is a bit better.

Can we see him at the WJs?
Forsberg is not really rising, he's been in the top 4 overall on most lists all year long. His package of size, skill, and determination are what got him where he is in the rankings. Also, Button said that he felt that Forsberg was the best player overall at the Hlinka tournament in August.

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Old
12-14-2011, 10:43 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by charlamov71 View Post
Yes. There is praising and i didn't say that he is bad prospect, he is my list in top10, but that was U18 Ivan Hlinka tournament where Teuvo Teräväinen (-94), "midget" Juuso Ikonen (-95) and Barkov has more points than Forsberg. I think most of the people think and say that Barkov (16 years old) was best in there and yes, i know that points it's not everything. Still, let see what he can do in WJC and after that we see if he has real potential to be top10, top5 or even top3. He's scores Allsvenskan is still very low and that's tell something and he not even get icetime in 1-2 lines if i am correct? Teuvo Teräväinen plays 1-3 lines in Jokerit FNL, Barkov 2nd line in Tappara and Ristolainen (D) have played TPS about average 16.55 minute in game and he have 6 points, also Pokka (D) have played in Kärpät 16 games average icetime 18.48 and he has 2 points.

Still yes, like i said, points it's not everything i know that, but i think Forsberg hasn't show anything to get that place in rankings.


Last edited by IFK: 12-14-2011 at 10:53 AM.
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Old
12-14-2011, 10:52 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by IFK View Post
Yes. There is praising and i didn't say that he is bad prospect, he is my list in top10, but that was U18 Ivan Hlinka tournament where Teuvo Träväinen (-94), midget Juuso Ikonen (-95) and Barkov has more points than Forsberg. I think most of the people think and say that Barkov (16 years old) was best in there and yes, i know that points it's not everything. Still, let see what he can do in WJC and after that we see if he has real potential to be top10, top5 or even top3. He's scores Allsvenskan is still very low and that's tell something and he not even get icetime in 1-2 lines if i am correct? Teuvo Teräväinen plays 1-3 lines in Jokerit FNL, Barkov 2nd line in Tappara and Ristolainen (D) have played TPS about average 16.55 minute in game and he have 6 points, also Pokka (D) have played in Kärpät 16 games average icetime 18.48 and he has 2 points.

Still yes, like i said, points it's not everything i know that, but i think Forsberg hasn't show anything to get that place in rankings.
Barkov was 15 at the tournament. From the games which i saw Barkov was clearly the best player on the ice. Like against USA, Galchenyuk got humiliated few times by Barkov. Barkov shut him down, stripped puck off him many times and draw 1 penalty because Galchenyuk hooked him and after that Barkov scored an huge goal from blueline with an cannon. Barkov also deked 3 usa players in the same time and created empty netter but the linemates didn't score. In the other hand people who saw more games from other group said that Filip Forsberg was clearly the best player of the tournament. To me it's clear to say that Barkov and Forsberg was the 2 best players in that tournament. But that tournament doesen't mean anything for the scouts anymore. U-20 WJC is the tournament where you get your stock up or down.

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Old
12-14-2011, 11:02 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by thomast View Post
Barkov was 15 at the tournament. From the games which i saw Barkov was clearly the best player on the ice. Like against USA, Galchenyuk got humiliated few times by Barkov. Barkov shut him down, stripped puck off him many times and draw 1 penalty because Galchenyuk hooked him and after that Barkov scored an huge goal from blueline with an cannon. Barkov also deked 3 usa players in the same time and created empty netter but the linemates didn't score. In the other hand people who saw more games from other group said that Filip Forsberg was clearly the best player of the tournament. To me it's clear to say that Barkov and Forsberg was the 2 best players in that tournament. But that tournament doesen't mean anything for the scouts anymore. U-20 WJC is the tournament where you get your stock up or down.
Good text and i agree almost all of this. And yes, he was 15 then, that was my mistake.

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12-14-2011, 11:15 AM
  #63
WayneBruce
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Originally Posted by IFK View Post
Yes. There is praising and i didn't say that he is bad prospect, he is my list in top10, but that was U18 Ivan Hlinka tournament where Teuvo Teräväinen (-94), "midget" Juuso Ikonen (-95) and Barkov has more points than Forsberg. I think most of the people think and say that Barkov (16 years old) was best in there and yes, i know that points it's not everything. Still, let see what he can do in WJC and after that we see if he has real potential to be top10, top5 or even top3. He's scores Allsvenskan is still very low and that's tell something and he not even get icetime in 1-2 lines if i am correct? Teuvo Teräväinen plays 1-3 lines in Jokerit FNL, Barkov 2nd line in Tappara and Ristolainen (D) have played TPS about average 16.55 minute in game and he have 6 points, also Pokka (D) have played in Kärpät 16 games average icetime 18.48 and he has 2 points.

Still yes, like i said, points it's not everything i know that, but i think Forsberg hasn't show anything to get that place in rankings.
How do you know that? just wondering. He recently led the swedish U20 team in scoring in Vaasa, that should count for something.

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12-14-2011, 11:34 AM
  #64
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How has Grigorenko not gone up? Are the injured players locks to go where they are? I would have thought he'd pass Galchenyuk

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12-14-2011, 12:01 PM
  #65
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I'll stick up for Craig. Everyone has their own opinions. Does he see as many games as an actual amateur scout would? No, probably not. But, I do know that he's in the rinks watching these kids play.

He's entitled to his own view of things.

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Old
12-14-2011, 05:01 PM
  #66
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The Forsberg bashing is classic excel spreadsheet scouting. From what I've seen he's got the lot really. Look at the big point disappointment Adam Larsson. He's doing great in the NHL and is looking better (as well as putting up more points let's not forget!) than former teammate and SEL points galore player David Rundblad. This while being two years younger. Looks a steal even at fourth overall.

Draft ranking is about projection, not about points. The WJC won't make or break Forsberg, but can affect his draft ranking slightly.

Huge surprise that the criticism is coming from the other side of the (Baltic) pond too


Last edited by Pentothal: 12-14-2011 at 05:33 PM.
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Old
12-14-2011, 05:10 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Renegade Stylings View Post
I'll stick up for Craig. Everyone has their own opinions. Does he see as many games as an actual amateur scout would? No, probably not. But, I do know that he's in the rinks watching these kids play.

He's entitled to his own view of things.
Indeed! Scouting staffs would be a lot smaller if the point was for everyone to have the same list. We all value things about players differently and that's very valuable for decision makers. I don't get the impression that Craig is the kind of person to just mix up a list for hits.

Plus the guy has to be logging a ton of miles this season. Gotta respect someone hits the road that much just to provide a 60 player long list.

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Old
12-14-2011, 05:23 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IFK View Post
Yes, cause he is from Sweden... But yes, he is good player, but i don't think he is in top 2 or stuck even top 3, maybe top 5. But let see what he do in WJC cause his numbers in Elitserien are so low and we have players in FEL who have close or better numbers than him and some of them are D or younger and there is not that much differense with this 2 league. Still, Forsberg has good size, hands and he is very good prospect.

I remember that Forsberg plays in Elitserien, but he plays in Allsvenskan and those points are horrible. Still, let see what he can do in WJC and what Määttä, Ristolainen, Pokka and Barkov can do there in Finnish team!
If scouting prospects was all about points don't you think Swedes would pimp Åberg and not Forsberg? Wouldn't Swedes say Rundblad was the next big thing and not Larsson? Every single Swedish prospect has an unique situation with their club. In a perfect world they'd all play top minutes surrounded with the team's best talent and play in every situation, but they don't. You can judge them by watching them play in person, and then put some extra weight on the National team competition when all play on the same terms.

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Old
12-14-2011, 06:33 PM
  #69
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Yes please, let Maatta or Ebert fall to the Bruins

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