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Over playing Cowen/Karlsson

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Old
12-14-2011, 12:53 AM
  #26
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Originally Posted by Roooney View Post
We know Karlsson can handle it. I'm sure Cowen can too, guy played alot of minutes for spokane. My biggest question is do Maclean keep these two together when kuba and gonchar are back.

Cowen-Karlsson
Phillips-Gonchar
Kuba-Carkner
???
Ideally for me, Cowen plays with Gonchar, and Karlsson with Kuba. Phillips should play with Carkner or Lee on the bottom pairing.

Hopefully the AHL game is just slow enough for Rundblad so that he can improve playing his type of game.

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12-14-2011, 05:16 AM
  #27
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Well as others have said I think if Gonchar and Kuba come back and play as they were earlier this season you can scale back their minutes. For now it's probably good experience for Karlsson and Cowen. Hopefully it teaches them how to make plays with a little less exertion sometimes (probably unrealistic and don't bring up the Spezza thread ).

That said you wonder about next year. I'm reticent to re-sign Kuba because last time he had a good year it was in a contract season as well and then after getting his new contract he stunk for two years. Do we just hope that Rundblad will be ready for 20+ by then or do we sign someone (Suter?) ?

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12-14-2011, 10:30 AM
  #28
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That`s the type of player Karlsson is though. He`s a high risk high reward player. He will also likely be somewhat inconsistent. And he will always be ripped on for those mistakes that happen because he is such an offensive guy.

Which is why Cowen and Karlsson are so ideal -- that pairing together will gradually get better as Karlsson gets a little more responsible (it will take time, and he will NEVER be as defensive as people want) and as Cowen becomes even more solid (in which I think he`s been VERY solid to this point already considering its his first year).
Which will make for some interesting decisions when Kuba and Gonchar return.

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12-14-2011, 10:34 AM
  #29
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Bah, they're kids, let 'em play.

We'll worry about managing their ice time in a decade or so when Cowen's had reconstructive knee surgery and Karlsson's working on his 4th concussion.

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12-14-2011, 10:35 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by source View Post
Ideally for me, Cowen plays with Gonchar, and Karlsson with Kuba. Phillips should play with Carkner or Lee on the bottom pairing.

Hopefully the AHL game is just slow enough for Rundblad so that he can improve playing his type of game.
I don't believe MacLean is going to breakup the Karlsson/Cowen pairing, Gonchar will go back with Phillips, and Kuba will be paired with one of Carkner, Lee, or Rundblad.

This will provide Ottawa with a pretty decent defence corps and allow MacLean to manage the minutes.

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12-14-2011, 10:39 AM
  #31
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MacLean hasn't been afraid to mix and match D pairings in the middle of games.

At one point Cowen and Karlsson were playing together and doing double duty with Lee and Rundblad.

Gonchar and Kuba comes back just gives him more options. But I could see Cowen and Karl getting more time together. Rundblad back to A, Phillips and Carkner. Gonchar and Kuba.

Might just go back to Gonchar/Cowen, Karlsson/Kuba, Phillips/Carks. It worked before and Cowen's high on confidence these days.

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12-14-2011, 10:46 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
MacLean hasn't been afraid to mix and match D pairings in the middle of games.

At one point Cowen and Karlsson were playing together and doing double duty with Lee and Rundblad.

Gonchar and Kuba comes back just gives him more options. But I could see Cowen and Karl getting more time together. Rundblad back to A, Phillips and Carkner. Gonchar and Kuba.

Might just go back to Gonchar/Cowen, Karlsson/Kuba, Phillips/Carks. It worked before and Cowen's high on confidence these days.
It does give MacLean options for sure.

The changes during the game I think are more a reflection of shifts that follow a PK or PP than him purposefully switching up pairings.

Personally I would like to see Rundblad get a few games paired with Kuba, it might help the kid a little.

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12-14-2011, 10:59 AM
  #33
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These guys are young as hell, if they can't handle that kind of ice time then they need to get better at training, give Gary Roberts a call.

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Old
12-14-2011, 11:01 AM
  #34
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There's a mental burden as well that comes with being 20 and 21 and being the two most important players on an NHL defense group.

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12-14-2011, 11:23 AM
  #35
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There's a mental burden as well that comes with being 20 and 21 and being the two most important players on an NHL defense group.
Very true, but EK and JC just don't seem to realize it!!!!!

The O/T goal last night is an example of them only focussed on playing, not worrying!!

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Old
12-14-2011, 11:24 AM
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Very true, but EK and JC just don't seem to realize it!!!!!

The O/T goal last night is an example of them only focussed on playing, not worrying!!
Yeah, this thread should have ended before hitting page 2.

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12-14-2011, 12:20 PM
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Imagine if Toronto had taken him at 7...or if we had chosen MPS over him? Both would have been tragic, Cowen is amazing. Cowen + Karlsson as a tandem will be devastating.

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12-14-2011, 12:21 PM
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Imagine if Toronto had taken him at 7...or if we had chosen MPS over him? Both would have been tragic, Cowen is amazing. Cowen + Karlsson as a tandem will be devastating.
I wouldn't be surprised if MPS was further down our list than anyone realizes.

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12-14-2011, 12:34 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
I wouldn't be surprised if MPS was further down our list than anyone realizes.
Could very well be.

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Old
12-14-2011, 12:55 PM
  #40
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I know what you are trying to get at but honestly that's just sounds dirty.

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12-14-2011, 01:08 PM
  #41
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The amazing thing was Cowen (you know the 2nd guy in the "prospects" banner above), playing 31:42 in the NJ game. When has a rookie ever had the most ice time in a game, over 30 minutes?
05-06 for us --> Meszaros played 25-38 mins a game x 10 times late that season because of injuries.

Chara broke his hand on Cairns skull, Redden & Phillips were out, Volchenkov was in and out the lineup. Meszaros & Pothier were holding down the fort through the better part of Emery's NHL player of month in March.

April 5, 2006 vs. Buff (5-4 OT loss)... 13 forwards dressed.
Meszaros = 38 mins
Pothier = 36
Schubert = 23
B. Norton = 13
F. Novak = 11



Quote:
Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
This thread is only relevant if someone can provide better options....

Until then, the question is pointless.

I don't want Chris Phillips on the PP, ever.

I don't want Brian Lee on the PP, ever.

I don't want Matt Carkner on the PP, ever.

I don't want David Rundblad on the PK.

I don't want Chris Phillips playing over 25 minutes.

I don't want Carkner playing over 20 minutes.

I don't want Brian Lee playing over 20 minutes.

I barely want Rundblad over 15 minutes on most nights.
Hmmm,

Cowen - Karlsson
Phillips - Lee
Rundblad - Carkner

PK1 = Phillips - Lee
PK2 = Cowen - Carkner

PP1 = Rundblad/Cowen - Karlsson
PP2 = Cowen/Phillips - Lee/Rundblad

Options are sort of limited with the PP and we don't have the forward depth or experience to pull a forward.


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Originally Posted by Asquaredx2 View Post
That said you wonder about next year. I'm reticent to re-sign Kuba because last time he had a good year it was in a contract season as well and then after getting his new contract he stunk for two years.
He was fine for half the year, his play started to dip badly, he went to the Olympics, he came back & played a couple of games before going out with the back injury that required surgery. I bet he played through the injury to play in the Olympics.

The worst of his play was between mid-'09-10 to mid-'10-11 and he didn't play all that much during that span.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
I wouldn't be surprised if MPS was further down our list than anyone realizes.
It was a huge redflag for me when we passed on him. Forsberg has been very successful for us, seemed to have a lot of influence in the org and the trust of the org... and we passed on him.

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12-14-2011, 01:17 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Asquaredx2 View Post
Well as others have said I think if Gonchar and Kuba come back and play as they were earlier this season you can scale back their minutes. For now it's probably good experience for Karlsson and Cowen. Hopefully it teaches them how to make plays with a little less exertion sometimes (probably unrealistic and don't bring up the Spezza thread ).

That said you wonder about next year. I'm reticent to re-sign Kuba because last time he had a good year it was in a contract season as well and then after getting his new contract he stunk for two years. Do we just hope that Rundblad will be ready for 20+ by then or do we sign someone (Suter?) ?
To me, we let kuba go, and don't sign anyone. Cowen and karlsson will be good for 25 minutes next year. Phillips and gonchar about 20, leaving rundblad and lee with 15. We have enough D. Plus we'll have weircioch,borowiecki, and gryba in case of injuries

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Old
12-14-2011, 01:21 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
Hmmm,

Cowen - Karlsson
Phillips - Lee
Rundblad - Carkner

PK1 = Phillips - Lee
PK2 = Cowen - Carkner

PP1 = Rundblad/Cowen - Karlsson
PP2 = Cowen/Phillips - Lee/Rundblad

Options are sort of limited with the PP and we don't have the forward depth or experience to pull a forward.


It was a huge redflag for me when we passed on him. Forsberg has been very successful for us, seemed to have a lot of influence in the org and the trust of the org... and we passed on him.
1. That's what I mean. We're better off giving Cowen and Karlsson the load they are with the options we have.

2. Exactly. At the time, I liked MPS....but I also didn't know any better. Watching him last season, I could see immediately why we didn't spend a 9th overall on him, despite his good rookie season production wise. He's better than he's shown this year...but it's somewhere in the middle.

He'll be a serviceable player and may be able to play both ways on a teams 2nd line. But, we didn't need to spend a top 10 pick on Peter Regin or Colin Greening...guys that can arguably fill the same roles.

Took the safe guy, with big upside.

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12-14-2011, 01:29 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
05-06 for us --> Meszaros played 25-38 mins a game x 10 times late that season because of injuries.

Chara broke his hand on Cairns skull, Redden & Phillips were out, Volchenkov was in and out the lineup. Meszaros & Pothier were holding down the fort through the better part of Emery's NHL player of month in March.

April 5, 2006 vs. Buff (5-4 OT loss)... 13 forwards dressed.
Meszaros = 38 mins
Pothier = 36
Schubert = 23
B. Norton = 13
F. Novak = 11

--

It was a huge redflag for me when we passed on him. Forsberg has been very successful for us, seemed to have a lot of influence in the org and the trust of the org... and we passed on him.
Ahh Brad Norton. Half of the best fight the NHL has ever seen.



--

As for MPS. Of course it was a huge red flag when we passed on him. The organization has pretty much been building the future Swedish National Team, and that year was pretty much at the peak of blowing our load on Swedish players (Karlsson, Petersson and Sandin the year before and Silfverberg, Lehner that year), and we passed on the Swedish guy to pick a guy was quite a lot of injury question marks (along with questional offensive potential).

It was obvious that our scouting staff didn't believe in his ability to finish at an NHL level.

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Old
12-14-2011, 01:33 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by AndrePetersson View Post
As for MPS. Of course it was a huge red flag when we passed on him. The organization has pretty much been building the future Swedish National Team, and that year was pretty much at the peak of blowing our load on Swedish players (Karlsson, Petersson and Sandin the year before and Silfverberg, Lehner that year), and we passed on the Swedish guy to pick a guy was quite a lot of injury question marks (along with questional offensive potential).

It was obvious that our scouting staff didn't believe in his ability to finish at an NHL level.
Just another reason not to question our scouting staff...MPS doesn't look like he can finish in the NHL.

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12-14-2011, 01:37 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
Just another reason not to question our scouting staff...MPS doesn't look like he can finish in the NHL.
To be fair, it wasn't just our scouting staff that didn't think he had good enough finishing ability.

Bob McKenzie alluded that the scouts he'd talked to all said that and that's why he dropped like he did.

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12-14-2011, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
Just another reason not to question our scouting staff...MPS doesn't look like he can finish in the NHL.
I think he can. He hasn't really gotten much of s chance in Edmonton. He is going to have to take on a new role in Edmonton or find a new home. I see him being a goal scorer. Just not in Edmonton.

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Old
12-14-2011, 02:04 PM
  #48
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Karlsson should be taking more faceoffs.

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Old
12-14-2011, 02:04 PM
  #49
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This is a good thing people. Jesus.

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Old
12-14-2011, 02:07 PM
  #50
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To be fair, it wasn't just our scouting staff that didn't think he had good enough finishing ability.

Bob McKenzie alluded that the scouts he'd talked to all said that and that's why he dropped like he did.
I realize that. He wasn't going to last much longer if Edmonton didn't take him.

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Originally Posted by Roooney View Post
I think he can. He hasn't really gotten much of s chance in Edmonton. He is going to have to take on a new role in Edmonton or find a new home. I see him being a goal scorer. Just not in Edmonton.
Based on his production in his rookie year, people started celebrating a future 30 goal scorer. I laughed...not all that surprised at what we're seeing now, although it's extreme.

The reason he isn't getting opportunity is because there are players better suited for that opportunity. If Edmonton drafts a forward this year, there's a good chance he'll have more scoring potential than MPS. MPS has the skill set of a glorified grinder...much in the way Colin Greening does when he's put on the 3rd line to play a role there. Until I see more skill set and smarts in MPS, the upside is limited. I'm not banking on it.

I'm not saying this because he's not scoring last year, I was very forceful about this opinion last year when he was. Some Oilers fans couldn't handle....some agreed with the assessment.

Bobby Butler would score 30 goals before MPS. Not saying either will.

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