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Would all those who mocked me for saying Desharnais could make it in the NHL stand up

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Old
12-30-2011, 01:22 PM
  #226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geeman View Post
Briere is a near point a game player aty his best , plus a beast in the playoffs

Plus having Briere with the loaded talent in Philly is ok

putting a midget like DD with other midgets and not having any front line talent
is a problem
Briere is a good depth player, if he is among your top 3-4 players you aren't winning anything. When he can play 3rd line and light it up on the PP then he is valuable...but his contract is crap, it's part of why Phillie never could afford a decent goalie.

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12-30-2011, 02:19 PM
  #227
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Briere is a good depth player, if he is among your top 3-4 players you aren't winning anything. When he can play 3rd line and light it up on the PP then he is valuable...but his contract is crap, it's part of why Phillie never could afford a decent goalie.
96 points in 97 playoff games.

Yeah, he's a depth player alright.


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12-30-2011, 02:24 PM
  #228
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96 points in 97 playoff games.

Yeah, he's a depth player alright.

He probably got half of them on the PP.

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12-30-2011, 02:31 PM
  #229
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ur right. pp points aren't worth as much and don't really count in the final tally of a game. you don't win **** getting points on the pp...

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12-30-2011, 02:34 PM
  #230
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
He probably got half of them on the PP.
Actually only 41% , but why does that matter? Most players who are successful in the playoffs get points on the PP. Look at Toews two years ago. Guess he is just a good depth player because 15 of his 29 points were on the PP.

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12-30-2011, 04:35 PM
  #231
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For every games habs coach want to match DD line with the weak 1 with 3rd pairing def, there is a game on the road where the opponent's coach decide of matchup.

When DD,Cole and Pac were playing together, they were our hottest line. No way, the other coach gave them the easy matchup. Poeple see what they want to see.

Everyone who wanted Eller instead of DD with Cole and Max said how all the lines were working vs ottawa. Again its not true. All players played great but as a line not so much. Eller scored with Darche on pp and Cole scored with Plek on pp. So this line did not produce. They produced their only pts yesterday.

The only way I want to get rid of DD is if PG or other GM trade for a no1 center. And even then I would try him on the wing before. You dont get rid of a guy producing that much while getting paid 800 000$.
It seems like these statistical charlatans convieniently forget this fact. I wonder why?

DD is now tied for 2nd on the team in +/-(+2). He's tied for the lead with forwards and only second to Gorges (+5) overall. The statistic charlatans naturally claim that +/- is overrated (or completely irrelevant) and site the point that you refuted as their evidence. LOL. Just for the record, last season, DD had 14 road points and 8 home points-despite playing one less road game. His +/- was -1 at home and -2 on the road. The same bogus "match up" arguments were being used on this board last year.

Cammalleri scores goals in back-to-back games for the first time this season, Pacioretty calls DD "the best player he's ever played with", and Cole is effusive with his praise. Seems to me that DD has those he needs on his side. Gaining he favor of message board posters whose interpretation of statistics/match ups is flawed-to say the least-isn't part on the "needs to be a successful" NHL player packet.


Last edited by Cyclones Rock: 12-30-2011 at 04:47 PM.
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12-30-2011, 05:13 PM
  #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclones Rock View Post
It seems like these statistical charlatans convieniently forget this fact. I wonder why?

DD is now tied for 2nd on the team in +/-(+2). He's tied for the lead with forwards and only second to Gorges (+5) overall. The statistic charlatans naturally claim that +/- is overrated (or completely irrelevant) and site the point that you refuted as their evidence. LOL. Just for the record, last season, DD had 14 road points and 8 home points-despite playing one less road game. His +/- was -1 at home and -2 on the road. The same bogus "match up" arguments were being used on this board last year.

Cammalleri scores goals in back-to-back games for the first time this season, Pacioretty calls DD "the best player he's ever played with", and Cole is effusive with his praise. Seems to me that DD has those he needs on his side. Gaining he favor of message board posters whose interpretation of statistics/match ups is flawed-to say the least-isn't part on the "needs to be a successful" NHL player packet.
Yup.

Desharnais has been one of the few guys who has been delivering this year, yet posters here bash him regardless and why? Because he's small.

If Desharnais, a guy who is on pace for 50+ points, is your 13th forward you must be one hell of a team. I don't get people here wishing him to fail.

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12-30-2011, 08:42 PM
  #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Briere is a good depth player, if he is among your top 3-4 players you aren't winning anything. When he can play 3rd line and light it up on the PP then he is valuable...but his contract is crap, it's part of why Phillie never could afford a decent goalie.
Wow. Briere is a very good player. I hope you're just saying this to try and prove a point about DD...

Quote:
It seems like these statistical charlatans convieniently forget this fact. I wonder why?

DD is now tied for 2nd on the team in +/-(+2). He's tied for the lead with forwards and only second to Gorges (+5) overall. The statistic charlatans naturally claim that +/- is overrated (or completely irrelevant) and site the point that you refuted as their evidence. LOL. Just for the record, last season, DD had 14 road points and 8 home points-despite playing one less road game. His +/- was -1 at home and -2 on the road. The same bogus "match up" arguments were being used on this board last year.

Cammalleri scores goals in back-to-back games for the first time this season, Pacioretty calls DD "the best player he's ever played with", and Cole is effusive with his praise. Seems to me that DD has those he needs on his side. Gaining he favor of message board posters whose interpretation of statistics/match ups is flawed-to say the least-isn't part on the "needs to be a successful" NHL player packet.
Completely agree with this post.


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12-30-2011, 08:47 PM
  #234
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That's right. Where are all you now? I've been saying that all he needed was a chance to play as a top 2 center for two years. I had so many people tell me "It doesn't mean St-Louis can play in the NHL that every small player can," or "He's only Corey Locke V2.0."

Where are you now people? What's your argument now? He's only been lucky?

He's gaining experience and should even improve his play. I'm glad he got his chance. I look forward to see how he plays with a couple more seasons under his belt.

(Lowering head) I must admit I was not a believer.....

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12-30-2011, 09:00 PM
  #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Briere is a good depth player, if he is among your top 3-4 players you aren't winning anything. When he can play 3rd line and light it up on the PP then he is valuable...but his contract is crap, it's part of why Phillie never could afford a decent goalie.
Yikes, Briere in his last year with Buffalo had 65 even-strength pts, more than anyone on our team last year! And he got to the conference finals while being a ppg player in the playoffs...

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12-30-2011, 09:51 PM
  #236
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While DD has impressed one reason he is getting the chances is a result of the habs having there worst depth at center in recent memory.

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12-30-2011, 10:35 PM
  #237
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So it's a bad thing DD was given a chance to succeed and ran with it. I'd love to have him as a 2a center, pp specialist.

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12-31-2011, 01:30 AM
  #238
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The game later this evening will mark DD's year anniversary from his final call up from Hamilton. It will also be his 88th NHL contest.

I looked at DD's history and was struck by how his point production tends to pick up dramatically around his 80th game at each level at which he's played.

In DD's first season of major junior hockey, he put up 51 points in 70 games. In his second season, he had 97 points in 68 games.

This amounted to a 96% (almost double) increase in his per game point production from year one to year two.

In DD's first 88 AHL games, he put up 61 points. In his next 95, he had 121 points. That represents an 84% increase in production from (roughly) the first half of his AHL career to the end of it.

DD has 46 points in his first 87 NHL games. That is a .529 PPG average. Should he increase this at two thirds the increase he experienced in the two halves of his AHL career, then he would average .65 PPG or 53 points per season. Should he increase his scoring by 80% of what he increased in the AHL, he would be a 65 points per season producer.

Unless DD doesn't experience the production increase which most NHLers do after their first full season and doesn't experience similar production increases which he had in his previous two levels of play, he's going to have a long and fruitful NHL career. Even if his point production stays right where it is, it's hard to see him not having a spot somewhere in the NHL.

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12-31-2011, 01:17 PM
  #239
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I doubted DD and I was wrong. The guys not only delivers every night, but he's become confident, patient and very smart with the puck. His goal last game was a demonstration of maturity and skill that only Plek and maybe AK could have done. His size will always be a disadvantage, but his hockey intelligence continues to improve and make his game better.

Sorry I ever doubted you, David. You've earned my respect.

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12-31-2011, 01:21 PM
  #240
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Originally Posted by Cyclones Rock View Post
The game later this evening will mark DD's year anniversary from his final call up from Hamilton. It will also be his 88th NHL contest.

I looked at DD's history and was struck by how his point production tends to pick up dramatically around his 80th game at each level at which he's played.

In DD's first season of major junior hockey, he put up 51 points in 70 games. In his second season, he had 97 points in 68 games.

This amounted to a 96% (almost double) increase in his per game point production from year one to year two.

In DD's first 88 AHL games, he put up 61 points. In his next 95, he had 121 points. That represents an 84% increase in production from (roughly) the first half of his AHL career to the end of it.

DD has 46 points in his first 87 NHL games. That is a .529 PPG average. Should he increase this at two thirds the increase he experienced in the two halves of his AHL career, then he would average .65 PPG or 53 points per season. Should he increase his scoring by 80% of what he increased in the AHL, he would be a 65 points per season producer.

Unless DD doesn't experience the production increase which most NHLers do after their first full season and doesn't experience similar production increases which he had in his previous two levels of play, he's going to have a long and fruitful NHL career. Even if his point production stays right where it is, it's hard to see him not having a spot somewhere in the NHL.
Exactly.

the guy will stay at NHL level for a good while... In Montreal or elsewhere.

Got a bad feeling he's gonna be dealt because the habs are stucked for many years with huge contracts on a bunch of small soft older players.

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12-31-2011, 03:32 PM
  #241
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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
96 points in 97 playoff games.

Yeah, he's a depth player alright.



holy **** a depth player wtf are some people thinking on these threads

you are going to put DD in the same sentence as Briere

the dude dominated in the playoffs when its clutch time , and we are praising our midget who is a 13th forward on great teams

i give up

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12-31-2011, 03:34 PM
  #242
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Originally Posted by Blame Subban View Post
Yup.

Desharnais has been one of the few guys who has been delivering this year, yet posters here bash him regardless and why? Because he's small.

If Desharnais, a guy who is on pace for 50+ points, is your 13th forward you must be one hell of a team. I don't get people here wishing him to fail.
its not size , its simple ...HE ISNT GOOD ENOUGH ON A TOP 6

maybe for us cause we stink , but WAKE UO GUYS

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12-31-2011, 03:41 PM
  #243
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Briere is a good depth player, if he is among your top 3-4 players you aren't winning anything. When he can play 3rd line and light it up on the PP then he is valuable...but his contract is crap, it's part of why Phillie never could afford a decent goalie.
It's New Year's Eve, man. Be a good guy and pass the pipe.

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12-31-2011, 03:54 PM
  #244
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holy **** a depth player wtf are some people thinking on these threads

you are going to put DD in the same sentence as Briere

the dude dominated in the playoffs when its clutch time , and we are praising our midget who is a 13th forward on great teams

i give up
You know plekanec wouldn't be a top 3 center in pittsburg right? So obviously because his position is filled on a good team, it means he's a 13th forward. In NYR they have Staal, Girardi, MDZ, & Mcdonagh all playing top 4 minutes and doing well. Perhaps Subban can't break that combination, subban is therefore a bust. Oh yah, Lars eller would also barely have a spot on 'great teams' like boston. Not tough enough for 4th line and they have 3 lines set with better two-way forwards and guys not named pouliot. They like pouliot now and so be it, but seems Eller is a bust too. Carey Price's #s don't come close to Boston's goalies, therefore Price is a 3rd string goalie. I'm glad you opened my eyes, I never knew how bad this team was.

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12-31-2011, 04:21 PM
  #245
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Originally Posted by Cyclones Rock View Post
The game later this evening will mark DD's year anniversary from his final call up from Hamilton. It will also be his 88th NHL contest.

I looked at DD's history and was struck by how his point production tends to pick up dramatically around his 80th game at each level at which he's played.

In DD's first season of major junior hockey, he put up 51 points in 70 games. In his second season, he had 97 points in 68 games.

This amounted to a 96% (almost double) increase in his per game point production from year one to year two.

In DD's first 88 AHL games, he put up 61 points. In his next 95, he had 121 points. That represents an 84% increase in production from (roughly) the first half of his AHL career to the end of it.

DD has 46 points in his first 87 NHL games. That is a .529 PPG average. Should he increase this at two thirds the increase he experienced in the two halves of his AHL career, then he would average .65 PPG or 53 points per season. Should he increase his scoring by 80% of what he increased in the AHL, he would be a 65 points per season producer.

Unless DD doesn't experience the production increase which most NHLers do after their first full season and doesn't experience similar production increases which he had in his previous two levels of play, he's going to have a long and fruitful NHL career. Even if his point production stays right where it is, it's hard to see him not having a spot somewhere in the NHL.
Most players need time to develop at a new level of competition. Lafleur had above average stats in his first 3 seasons. He then exploded to outstanding stats in the next 6. Look at Ribiero's stats in his first 3 seasons as a pro? I'm not comparing the three. I'm just giving some examples where some players needed ice time to improve their game. We both agree that given ice time, he's shown in the past that he can become an elite player in the league he played in. Why not continue his ice time and see how good he can get.

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While DD has impressed one reason he is getting the chances is a result of the habs having there worst depth at center in recent memory.
That's how most undrafted players make a name for themselves. Halak went through the same thing. sure he's no Thomas, but had Price not struggled so much, he wasn't going to get his time to shine either.

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12-31-2011, 10:43 PM
  #246
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holy **** a depth player wtf are some people thinking on these threads

you are going to put DD in the same sentence as Briere

the dude dominated in the playoffs when its clutch time , and we are praising our midget who is a 13th forward on great teams

i give up
That's too bad.

Your post started off very correct and then ended so wrong that it made me think the original statement in your post was just luck.

13th forwards don't score at a 0.62 PPG clip. Nice try though.

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12-31-2011, 11:02 PM
  #247
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It's normal that people are hard on DD, he came with no hype at all. This is Hockeysfuture, we have strong opinions on players before they have played an NHL game.

The opposite phenomenom happens when we have high hopes on a kid, we want him to have 20 chances and will blame the coach for all his problems.

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12-31-2011, 11:16 PM
  #248
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It's tough, while Desharnais isn't a good player, he is getting a lot of chances here because we basically don't have enough talent. It's really that simple. He can stick handle, and he can make decent passes. But he's AWFUL in our zone. He gets bulldozed in our zone and easily taken off the puck. Would he be playing on any other team in the nhl? Most definitely not.

So what do you do with a guy with no size, can't play in your own zone, but can put up points because he plays on the PP, touches the puck, then someone elses scores? I guess you play him until you get better players, that's all.

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12-31-2011, 11:55 PM
  #249
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It's tough, while Desharnais isn't a good player, he is getting a lot of chances here because we basically don't have enough talent. It's really that simple. He can stick handle, and he can make decent passes. But he's AWFUL in our zone. He gets bulldozed in our zone and easily taken off the puck. Would he be playing on any other team in the nhl? Most definitely not.

So what do you do with a guy with no size, can't play in your own zone, but can put up points because he plays on the PP, touches the puck, then someone elses scores? I guess you play him until you get better players, that's all.
I think desharnais is better in his play without the puck than you give him credit for. He backchecks well and while he cant knock players off the puck physically, he makes sure to get his body in the way... so he's always involved and not floating.

I said at the beginning of the year, that he would thrive on a 3rd line with offensive talent. But the way gomez has gone, and the way plekanec is struggling by his standards, Desharnais' role has been elevated. He's worked for everything he has gotten and has pulled his own weight which alot of habs players cannot say this year.

With all the other underacheivers, I dont know why desharnais continues to be some sort of focal point. We are talking about a complimentary player who has been pushed into a focal point because a) he earned it and b) certain players dropped the ball. Lets focus on the underachievers and get them going instead of dogging on the overachievers.

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12-31-2011, 11:56 PM
  #250
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But he's AWFUL in our zone. He gets bulldozed in our zone and easily taken off the puck. Would he be playing on any other team in the nhl? Most definitely not.
While DD is not the best in the D zone it's more of a positioning problem than lost battles. I don't remember many goals that were caused by an opponent who stripped the puck from him. What I noticed is that he's sometimes late to cover his man in the slot. That can be improved. He's way more physically punished in the offensive zone than in the D zone....yet he's still producing in ES situations (second on the team with 18 ES pts behind MaxPac who has 21 ES pts)

Now would he play on good team that is 100% healthy ? Probably not but 90% of the teams are full of injuries. He sure would get the chance to prove himself on a lot of teams simply because he most probably would be among the best scoring forwards in the AHL.

People are hard on him because the team is losing..
He would have the exact same record on a winning team and everyone would be talking about the deal of the century.

While we don't score much our obvious problem is the D crop.
Our transition game is among the worst because our D's are just freaking awful.

We all knew it was a problem in the off-season but apparently Gauthier thought that Campoli was all we needed.

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