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Old
12-15-2011, 01:01 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
Vanek and Pommer have been great. It's their supporting cast that need to get going. The Other guys getting paid big coin to produce offense; Leino, Stafford and Roy need to do their part. We would be near the top of the conference IMO if 2 of those 3 were at the top of their game.
Or if we could hold a damn home lead. Either, really.

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Old
12-15-2011, 01:14 PM
  #27
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Or if we could hold a damn home lead. Either, really.
As much as Lindy says we're a defensive team I don't see it. We're always jumping in on the rush with our defensemen, many times they are leading in the zone, and always going for those offensive pinches. I don't understand it, last year we won so much because we just kept going at it, kept trying to get that other goal and we were confident and scoring, I don't see it this year.

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12-15-2011, 01:51 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Sabres57 View Post
No, it isn't that simple.

The Sabres weren't any great shakes when Vanek was producing at better than a point-a-game pace. He had 27 points in the first 24 games and the team was a disappointing 13-10-1. That's a 93-point pace, which was only good for eighth in the East last season.
This is not true at all.

On November 18th, a day before the the Phoenix game when this 5 points in 11 games started the Sabres were 2nd in the Conference.

Vanek makes the Sabres go, we saw it last season, which makes sense since he is our #1 player.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/standings.htm...ate=11/18/2011

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12-15-2011, 01:58 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by SabresAreScaryGood View Post
This is not true at all.

On November 18th, a day before the the Phoenix game when this 5 points in 11 games started the Sabres were 2nd in the Conference.

Vanek makes the Sabres go, we saw it last season, which makes sense since he is our #1 player.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/standings.htm...ate=11/18/2011
That's because the rest of the division was playing even worse. They were 11-7 at that point, which as was said, isn't that great.

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12-15-2011, 02:03 PM
  #30
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That's because the rest of the division was playing even worse. They were 11-7 at that point, which as was said, isn't that great.
Good enough for 100 point season. You look at last year when Vanek was playing well and this year, I think its obvious who carries the Sabres and who the Sabres need to play well.

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12-15-2011, 02:19 PM
  #31
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Good enough for 100 point season. You look at last year when Vanek was playing well and this year, I think its obvious who carries the Sabres and who the Sabres need to play well.
That's all well and good, but it just shows this team wasn't built well. If they're relying on one player to carry them the entire season, they're screwed. No player in the league is going to carry a team to the playoffs on his own. He needs the secondary scoring to support him for when things aren't going his way, which hasn't happened at all at this point in the season.

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Old
12-15-2011, 02:21 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by SabresAreScaryGood View Post
This is not true at all.
What about it isn't true? Vanek's first 24 games: 27 points. Buffalo's record through 24 games: 13-10-1. Even when Vanek was going on all cylinders, the Sabres weren't. It's not up to him to make Roy, Stafford, Ennis and Leino show up.


Last edited by Better Call Saul: 12-15-2011 at 02:27 PM. Reason: 27, not 29
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Old
12-15-2011, 02:23 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Sabres57 View Post
What about it isn't true? Vanek's first 24 games: 29 points. Buffalo's record through 24 games: 13-10-1. Even when Vanek was going on all cylinders, the Sabres weren't. It's not up to him to make Roy, Stafford, Ennis and Leino show up.
Yet people don't apply the same logic to Roy, who, apparently, is responsible for the play of every other player in the lineup.

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12-15-2011, 02:30 PM
  #34
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He was terrible against Ottawa and no one said much, but he's been good this season. If the ~half point per game lasts another month or so, then this thread would make more sense.

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Old
12-15-2011, 02:43 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabres57 View Post
What about it isn't true? Vanek's first 24 games: 27 points. Buffalo's record through 24 games: 13-10-1. Even when Vanek was going on all cylinders, the Sabres weren't. It's not up to him to make Roy, Stafford, Ennis and Leino show up.
It all depends on when you look at things.

If you use the 19 game mark as the time at which Vanek went into a slump, things look like this:

Standings after 19 games played on Nov 19: Sabres 12-7-0 24pts 2nd in Eastern Conference and 1 pt behind Philly for 1st .632 Winning%

Vanek after 19 games: 11g 13a 24pts +4

Last 11 games: Sabres record: 3-5-3 .409 Winning%

Vanek in the last 11 games: 3g 2a 5pts Even

On the surface, it's easy to link Vanek's drop in production and the Sabres drop in winning%.

But, answers to questions like this are rarely that easy.

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Old
12-15-2011, 03:27 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Sabres57 View Post
What about it isn't true? Vanek's first 24 games: 27 points. Buffalo's record through 24 games: 13-10-1. Even when Vanek was going on all cylinders, the Sabres weren't. It's not up to him to make Roy, Stafford, Ennis and Leino show up.
Because at the end of that record they are 1-3-1 and that includes the slump. So before the slump their record was much better, they were 2nd in the East. The Sabres are 3-5-3 during his slump, basically 3-8 vs 11-7.

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12-15-2011, 03:33 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Jim Bob View Post
It all depends on when you look at things.

If you use the 19 game mark as the time at which Vanek went into a slump, things look like this:

Standings after 19 games played on Nov 19: Sabres 12-7-0 24pts 2nd in Eastern Conference and 1 pt behind Philly for 1st .632 Winning%

Vanek after 19 games: 11g 13a 24pts +4

Last 11 games: Sabres record: 3-5-3 .409 Winning%

Vanek in the last 11 games: 3g 2a 5pts Even

On the surface, it's easy to link Vanek's drop in production and the Sabres drop in winning%.

But, answers to questions like this are rarely that easy.
Last year is really the biggest factor, this team took off when Vanek took off.

Vanek controls the Sabres fate.

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Old
12-15-2011, 04:05 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by SabresAreScaryGood View Post
Last year is really the biggest factor, this team took off when Vanek took off.

Vanek controls the Sabres fate.
huh i don't get this at all. Vanek is one player. He can't do everything. He's human, he'll have slumps. That's when other people need to contribute.

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Old
12-15-2011, 04:11 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by SabresAreScaryGood View Post
Last year is really the biggest factor, this team took off when Vanek took off.

Vanek controls the Sabres fate.
Vanek scored 32 goals last season, and the Sabres as a whole were ninth in that department. They were a pretty well-balanced offensive team.

This year, even though Vanek is on pace for 38, the Sabres are just 16th in scoring. They're also 16th in goals against. Combine the two 16s and you see a team that's currently average at best. That isn't on Vanek, who has played at a high level for the majority of the season. It's baffling that you put the blame at his feet because of a mini-slump and seemingly assign none to Roy, Stafford, Leino and Ennis - all of whom have disappointed from the get-go this year.

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12-15-2011, 05:09 PM
  #40
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While the effort is still ther. Vaneks Point production went.down the last few weeks.

Vanek has been in a slump (production wise) since hecht was there center. It has continued with Sechzurblabla.

I would love.to see Vanek - Adam - Pommmmmmmmmmmmmmineville back.

Or what do you think of this top 6?

Ennis - Roy - Pomineville
Vanek - Adam - Kassian

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Old
12-15-2011, 05:16 PM
  #41
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At some point, some other playerS have to shoulder the load.

Every good player goes through a semi-dry spell....and, that's what it is, a SEMI dry spell.

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12-15-2011, 09:49 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by 5 Minute Major View Post
At some point, some other playerS have to shoulder the load.

Every good player goes through a semi-dry spell....and, that's what it is, a SEMI dry spell.
Roy and Stafford, how many years has it been?

And to tell the truth im used to this Vanek more than the point per game Vanek.

This team is not a cup team and Darcy locked them up.

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12-15-2011, 10:49 PM
  #43
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Roy and Stafford, how many years has it been?

And to tell the truth im used to this Vanek more than the point per game Vanek.

This team is not a cup team and Darcy locked them up.
Well, I can tell you that I'm used to the Vanek that goes to the front of the net and gets the ever loving crap knocked out of him while trying to make things happen and, and paying a price to score the garbage goals.

I'll take Vanek on my team any day of the week.

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12-15-2011, 10:56 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by 5 Minute Major View Post
Well, I can tell you that I'm used to the Vanek that goes to the front of the net and gets the ever loving crap knocked out of him while trying to make things happen and, and paying a price to score the garbage goals.

I'll take Vanek on my team any day of the week.
Im just making a point that Vanek is our entire team. Vanek is not going to win us a cup on his own, the Sabres dont have good enough players to pick it up when Vanek isnt playing at a point per game level.

The Sabres cant put out Vanek and Roy and think these guys are winning a cup for us. Its just not happening.

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12-16-2011, 01:29 AM
  #45
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Luke Adam, that's what happened. With Adam on that line, there was a big body to take up space in front and around the net and allow Vanek to create. Now Vanek is that player again. VAP should be put back together, at least they'll have one good line. Now with Leino out, that Leino-Adam-Kassian line that was producing isn't around. Maybe put VAP back together, then leave Ennis-Roy but put Kassian on the wing there instead of Stafford, and move him down to a line with Szchezura (sp?) and Tropp, so they can show Staff what hard work is again.

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12-16-2011, 06:31 AM
  #46
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Wouldn't mind those lines at all:

Vanek - Adam - Pomminville
Ennis - Roy - Kassian
Ellis - Sczhuera (Chewy damn it) - Stafford
McCormick - Gaustad - Gragnani

(Am I missing a healthy forward somwhere in the bottom 6?)

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12-16-2011, 09:10 AM
  #47
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So instead of blaming the other 3 lines that have done close to nothing scoring wise, we blame Vanek and to a lesser extent Roy? Good call man. I'm pretty happy with Vanek's 14 goals and 15 assists right now, I'm sorry you aren't.

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12-16-2011, 09:11 PM
  #48
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It worked again!

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12-16-2011, 09:12 PM
  #49
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12-16-2011, 09:13 PM
  #50
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This is like the guys in 327 who used to sit next to us. One night one of us said "Vanek sucks." and he scored. So it became a thing, pre-game. And he almost always delivered.

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