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Old
12-16-2011, 12:52 AM
  #26
uiCk
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Why is Kristo so high? interested to know, he's one of the high prospects i know the least about.

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12-16-2011, 08:48 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
He's looked good at times and not so good other times. He's a guy that needs another year AHL.
I didn't think he would be ready for NHL action this year, as his lack of strength was a concern, so hopefully that will keep him in Hamilton for the rest of the season to get his confidence back. Should be interesting to see what happens to him next year since he can't be sent down without waivers.

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Originally Posted by NLHabsFan View Post
Nice List Montreal!

I've always been high on Qualier and thought he could turn out to be something special for the Habs. After his injury I wasn't sure how he'd come back. I see you got him quite high on your list. What can you make of him so far this year?
I saw him last year and thought he looked a little slower and wasn't sure if he would be able to bounce back from the knee injury but this year he looks like he's playing his best hockey. He's got the size, skating, speed and offensive skills, so he may force the Habs to bring him to Hamilton next year even though the team will be loaded with rookies from the looks of it, having a guy in the Pacioretty mold (taller but less physical) sure would be nice. If he can translate his offense to the AHL, then we have a solid prospect with good size, speed and hands.

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Originally Posted by EXPOS123 View Post
I don't see all the fuss about Palushaj. I hope i'm wrong, but i just don't see him in Montreal's future plans. To me he's another Ben Maxwell in terms of just not being able to translate it to the NHL level. Let's face it, the Blues wouldn't simply trade him away for Matt D'agostini from all people if he was such a great talent.
Palushaj has talent for sure, he ripped it up in the USHL, and Michigan and was the top scorer in Hamilton last year (leading them in ppg this year). But in the NHL I don't think he was very effective at all, other then drawing a few penalties. Perhaps with another season in the AHL under his belt and another summer to try and fill out some/gain strength maybe he could be a decent player but I have my doubts since imo he wasn't really able to create much offensively, which is clearly the big part of his game, if he can't do that in the NHL I don't see him having a future with us. But we'll see as the talent is there and he does have some sandpaper to his game and decent speed.

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Originally Posted by QuebecPride View Post
Great list as usual Dan.

To me , Bournival is Leblanc V.2.

I'm really high on both Morgan Ellis and Mac Bennett.

But the one that I think has the higher ceiling is Kristo. Such a great combination of speed, skills, scoring abilities and two-way awareness.
He has great hands in-tight too. Even better than Gallagher's.
Thanks. I was very impressed with Bournival, looking forward to seeing what he does at the pro level next year, should be fun to watch. I am very high on Bennett, my only concern is his lack of size and because of his high risk play (rushing the puck up ice) he's going to make some mistakes. He reminds me a bit of Subban when he's rushing the puck up ice, too bad he doesn't have Subban's frame/strength but he's showing good things at Michigan at both ends of the ice. Ellis is a guy I haven't paid a lot of attention to and have only seend him 3 times since we drafted him, but looks like I should have been paying more attention to him as he seems to be progressing nicely.

Kristo and Gallagher could be flipped, 3rd or 4th is a good spot for Kristo, I doubt anyone here has seen Kristo more then I have since I get most of his games on tv (including tomorrows exhibition game against the Russian Red Stars) Kristo needs to work on his consistency a little and there are some questions as to his hockey sense. But with his speed and offensive skills he's going to be a fun player to watch.

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Originally Posted by The Kremelin Wall View Post
A little surprised to see MacMillan so high. Pre-season he wasn't even most people's top thirty.
I was surprised myself, he really has impressed me, although he's still way too skinny, he works hard, goes to the dirty areas of the ice and has slick passing skills. Perhaps he will stay in the NCAA for a couple years but if he fills out he should be a very solid prospect for us.

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Originally Posted by Commandant View Post
I know he hasn't done much in the NHL, but he also spent most of his minutes with Engqvist and Darche, or Nokalenien and Darche. Not exactly offensive dynamos to play with.

I don't think he's really fully ready either. He needs a little more upper body strength.

However i see the kid at the AHL level and he dominates, I think once he gains that strength and the confidence, he'll be a good NHLer. A 2nd/3rd line tweener.
Would be interesting to see how he can do if he can get stronger, as he can setup plays and doesn't mind getting his nose dirty.

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Originally Posted by uiCk View Post
Why is Kristo so high? interested to know, he's one of the high prospects i know the least about.
Kristo has great speed, he can really fly out there, loves to shoot the puck, has a quick release and can fool goalies as he will shoot from anywhere. He's easily among the most skilled prospects we have, his lack of size/strength could be a problem for him but with his speed I think he will be ok. Of all the prospects we have, I think I am most interested to see how Kristo does in the NHL as his upside could be very high if his offensive game translates well.

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12-16-2011, 09:59 AM
  #28
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cool , thanks montreal.

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12-16-2011, 10:21 AM
  #29
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Leblanc
Gallagher
Kristo
Palushaj

all knocking on the same door, one has to be traded, but who?

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12-16-2011, 10:23 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle West View Post
Leblanc
Gallagher
Kristo
Palushaj

all knocking on the same door, one has to be traded, but who?
Why the rush to trade one?

None of the 4 will be ready until next year.

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12-16-2011, 11:43 AM
  #31
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No hurry, I don't want to see any of them traded. But given they are all going to be competing for the same spot next season, one of them would make great trade bait.

Kristo has the most value right now, after the WJC Gallagher may be the guy everyone wants?

If NJ decides they can't keep Parise and want a package including Gallagher back...

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12-16-2011, 11:48 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle West View Post
No hurry, I don't want to see any of them traded. But given they are all going to be competing for the same spot next season, one of them would make great trade bait.

Kristo has the most value right now, after the WJC Gallagher may be the guy everyone wants?

If NJ decides they can't keep Parise and want a package including Gallagher back...
We say "sorry, we can't we're paying too much for Gionta, Cammalleri and Gomez".

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Old
12-16-2011, 11:51 AM
  #33
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Here's the ranking, the comments can be found at my site if you want to read them (nothing in depth since it takes a while to rank 39 prospects)

1. Nathan Beaulieu
2. Louis Leblanc
3. Brendan Gallagher
4. Danny Kristo
5. Jarred Tinordi
6. MichaŽl Bournival
7. Mac Bennett
8. Steve Quailer
9. Morgan Ellis
10. Mark MacMillan
11. Magnus Nygren
12. Aaron Palushaj
13. Alexander Avtsin
14. Darren Dietz
15. Greg Pateryn
16. Daniel Pribly
17. Josiah Didier
18. Dustin Walsh
19. Gabriel Dumont
20. Andreas Engqvist
21. Brendon Nash
22. Olivier Archambault
23. Andrew Conboy
24. Colin Sullivan
25. Dany Massť
26. Peter Delmas
27. Joonas Nšttinen
28. Maxim Trunev
29. Mark Mitera
30. Olivier Fortier
31. Ian Schultz
32. Joe Stejskal
33. Scott Kishel
34. Philippe Lefebvre
35. John Westin
36. Hunter Bishop
37. Alain Berger
38. Mike Cichy
39. Robert Mayer

How long does it take to rank 39 prospects? and who is no. 40?

Do you weigh them more on upside or NHL readiness when you rank them?

Avtsin vs Palushaj for example, one is raw talent but will never see the big show until he learns to round out his game, but his upside is tremendous. Does he rate higher than a guy who is a few tweaks from a regular shift on the third line but will likely max out at 15goals a season?

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Old
12-16-2011, 12:52 PM
  #34
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I see 6 real quality prospects. The dropoff after that is dramatic, IMO. Not saying the rest are doomed to fail, there are a number I like and hope will succeed but if I take off my fan hat I have to admit I think they're all longshots to be more than journeymen NHL players. Maybe one or two will turn out better than that, most won't make it that far, but they're not blue chippers in my book.

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Old
12-16-2011, 12:55 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle West View Post
Leblanc
Gallagher
Kristo
Palushaj

all knocking on the same door, one has to be traded, but who?
Palushaj's the only one I see being traded in the near future, and he may just play in the AHL instead. Kristo's well behind Gallagher and Leblanc in terms of development, I suspect, and wouldn't be able to compete for a roster slot straight out of college. He's a big if at this point, while Palushaj's ceiling just doesn't look to be that high. Nor his trade value.

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12-16-2011, 01:03 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Bullsmith View Post
Palushaj's the only one I see being traded in the near future, and he may just play in the AHL instead. Kristo's well behind Gallagher and Leblanc in terms of development, I suspect, and wouldn't be able to compete for a roster slot straight out of college. He's a big if at this point, while Palushaj's ceiling just doesn't look to be that high. Nor his trade value.
Kristo being 2 years older and coming from NCAA I'd say it's the opposite, he'd be more NHL ready than LeBlanc and Gallagher.

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12-16-2011, 01:18 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Kristo being 2 years older and coming from NCAA I'd say it's the opposite, he'd be more NHL ready than LeBlanc and Gallagher.
It's only my opinion of course, and time will tell, but I don't think 4 years in the NCAA is close to the preparation for pro hockey that the WJCs and Memorial cup experience is. Does it make up for two years of age? I don't know, but I also think Leblanc and Gallagher are much more reliable prospects than Kristo. The transition from the NCAA to the pros is a crap shoot. Tinordi struggled just transitioning to Junior. I'm not making an argument that Junior hockey is necessarily at a higher level than the NCAA (moot to this argument), but the simple fact is they play far more games, deal with more travel and if they go to the WJC or the Mem Cup they face far more intense competition than anything in college. Not even close. So yeah, based on his stint in the NHL and his selection to the WJC along with his very possible participation in the Memorial cup, I think Gallagher will be well ahead of Kristo on day one.

As for Leblanc, hunh? He's in the NHL right now and will have a year of pro hockey under his belt before Kristo plays a pro game. Hard for me to see how Kristo will be ahead of him on the depth chart to start the season, age notwithstanding. But maybe I'm misunderstanding and you mean Kristo will be a more developed player when he turns pro than Leblanc was when he did. Love it if that turns out to be the case, just not expecting it.

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12-16-2011, 02:25 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullsmith View Post
It's only my opinion of course, and time will tell, but I don't think 4 years in the NCAA is close to the preparation for pro hockey that the WJCs and Memorial cup experience is. Does it make up for two years of age? I don't know, but I also think Leblanc and Gallagher are much more reliable prospects than Kristo. The transition from the NCAA to the pros is a crap shoot. Tinordi struggled just transitioning to Junior. I'm not making an argument that Junior hockey is necessarily at a higher level than the NCAA (moot to this argument), but the simple fact is they play far more games, deal with more travel and if they go to the WJC or the Mem Cup they face far more intense competition than anything in college. Not even close. So yeah, based on his stint in the NHL and his selection to the WJC along with his very possible participation in the Memorial cup, I think Gallagher will be well ahead of Kristo on day one.

As for Leblanc, hunh? He's in the NHL right now and will have a year of pro hockey under his belt before Kristo plays a pro game. Hard for me to see how Kristo will be ahead of him on the depth chart to start the season, age notwithstanding. But maybe I'm misunderstanding and you mean Kristo will be a more developed player when he turns pro than Leblanc was when he did. Love it if that turns out to be the case, just not expecting it.
Kristo has a bigger offensive potential than Leblanc, not many prospects aside from Gallagher have his ability to score goals. And Kristo even has more size and speed than Gallagher. He's gonna be a threat to watch.

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Old
12-16-2011, 02:40 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Kyle West View Post
Gallagher ahead of Kristo? A WJC euphoria colouring your thinking a little bit?

For me Leblanc is number one, really like his game at the NHL level, so smart and shifty. Also like Kristo's skillset.

But after watching the WJC will likely get a different appreciation for Beaulieau and Bournival.

Would like to see Palushaj and Avtsin in the Top 10 though.
Personally, I'd have Gallagher #1. Not just WJC fever, more his play at training camp, and his ability to put up huge points on an otherwise mediocre WHL team.

I know Avtsyn has some raw tools, but at this point I'd like to see more results. At this point, I'd even have Dietz and Dumont ahead of him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle West View Post
Leblanc
Gallagher
Kristo
Palushaj

all knocking on the same door, one has to be traded, but who?
Is Palushaj really knocking on the door? In the third year of his ELC, he still has yet to establish himself in the NHL, and now Leblanc has passed him on the depth chart. I can't see Palushaj having much trade value. I think the decision is becoming more, does the team keep him as #13F next season, or try to move him for a late draft pick, or put him on waivers?


Last edited by Roulin: 12-16-2011 at 02:45 PM.
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Old
12-16-2011, 09:58 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle West View Post
How long does it take to rank 39 prospects? and who is no. 40?

Do you weigh them more on upside or NHL readiness when you rank them?

Avtsin vs Palushaj for example, one is raw talent but will never see the big show until he learns to round out his game, but his upside is tremendous. Does he rate higher than a guy who is a few tweaks from a regular shift on the third line but will likely max out at 15goals a season?
It's a year long thing, I work on the rankings every couple weeks, making notes and adjustments as I see or hear about them. After several reworkings over say a couple weeks and I feel the list is as acurate as I can get it, then I publish it. I have been doing this for close to 10 years now, so you pick up things here and there over time. The real time consumer is watching all the games. I watch every Bulldogs game or close to it, I watch a ton of NCAA games and then other leagues I will see if possible. Then I try keeping tabs on all the prospects in their respective leagues to hear what the fans have to say about their play, sometimes I get good info, other times it becomes tough to get opinions, which is why I try and see every prospect each year at some point.

There is no 40, cause we only have 39 prospects.

I don't put much stock in NHL readiness, since these guys are at different stages of development, I go more on upside, but I try and factor in everything I know as well, for example if I think someone has high upside but I'm concerned about the weaker parts of their game and don't feel they are progressing well in that area, then I will rank them lower then someone who might not has as high upside but I feel there's little downside to their style of play or I might rate someone a little higher then I should if I think said prospects skill set is something we sorely need. I also take into consideration how things are going for them in the current season vs last season (unless they were just drafted, as it takes a while to get really comfortable with evaluating prospects)

Avtsin vs Palushaj, I rate Palushaj higher since he has proven he can score at every level outside of the NHL. Avtsin I rank slightly lower even though his upside is higher as he has the mix of size/speed/skating/off skills that you love to see but is still so raw. Had Avtsin adjusted better to the AHL, I'd have him higher but as someone that has seen almost every game he's played in the AHL, I have major doubts he can put it all together. Although I have my doubts about Palushaj as well, hence both being out of my top 10. Until Palushaj shows he can create offense in the NHL, I'm concerned for his future with the Habs. That said he's been good everywhere else so perhaps he'll get there next season or the following. If Avtsin started showing signs of consistency and improved all round game he would leap frog up the rankings as he does have several things to like about his game.



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Originally Posted by Bullsmith View Post
I see 6 real quality prospects. The dropoff after that is dramatic, IMO. Not saying the rest are doomed to fail, there are a number I like and hope will succeed but if I take off my fan hat I have to admit I think they're all longshots to be more than journeymen NHL players. Maybe one or two will turn out better than that, most won't make it that far, but they're not blue chippers in my book.
I would say 7. Bennett is right up there with our top prospects, it might take him a little longer to get there then the ones in front of him, but in time I think people will get more excited for him.

One thing I'll say for our prospects, outside of my top 7, which I think highly of all of them, the interesting thing about our prospects is that while the remaining are not big name prospects and each has their fair share of issues/concerns going forward but the list is long with many interesting names. So while I feel confident that from our top 7, we stand to get some solid NHLers in time, I also feel confident that a couple more will find their way since we have so many that while longer shots they could surprise in time.

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Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
I know Avtsyn has some raw tools, but at this point I'd like to see more results. At this point, I'd even have Dietz and Dumont ahead of him.
Dietz I could see putting higher, if I knew him better perhaps i'd have him higher and he's one I plan on keeping my eye on. Dumont has really struggled in Hamilton though, going into tonights game in his AHL career he's scored only 7 goals. I guess he could turn out to be a better NHLer then AHLer as he's all heart out there but I dropped him down the rankings, I know he's had some injury problems this year but before that he couldn't buy a goal and had only 5 all of last season. I have a tough time trying to figure out just what we have in Dumont as I know he's going to play hard every night but he's smallish and hasn't produced at all in the AHL.

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12-16-2011, 10:34 PM
  #41
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Thanks. Beaulieu is worth getting excited about, having him and PK in the future is going to be nice to see. It's funny cause I saw him early in his draft year and wasn't too impressed but thought he was very good this preseason for it being his first ever NHL camp. I think his upside is very high and with his physical abilities he has a good shot of reaching it.

Leblanc has impressed me in Hamilton as he jumped right in to be the best forward on the team, very smart player with a high compete level, will be interesting to see where his game is at in a couple years.

Gallagher is a beast, we'll have to see how it goes for him once he turns pro but I like his compete level as well and while he's undersized he doesn't play like is and goes to the dirty areas to score.

Kristo is the one I've seen the most outside of the AHL. I get to see him a ton and I have high hopes for him as his speed and offensive game are fun to watch. He does take off a shift or two but when his feet are moving he's going to make things happen as he wants the puck and is willing to go to the dirty areas as well at high speed. If ND doesn't go far in the playoffs the Habs could sign him in March and he could join the Dogs then, if it's an NHL contract he can be called up. I assume he'll be in Hamilton next year, unless he really wants to graduate from college.

Tinordi I haven't seen as much but I like the pick as well, hope he can be a solid shutdown type for us that is a pain to play against and clears the crease well.

Bournival has really grown on me, was very impressed with what I saw from him this year in the Q but looking forward to see how his offensive game translates at the next level.

I would also add Mac Bennett to this list, imo he's easily one of our top prospects, he's very good at rushing the puck up ice, is solid enough in his own end although he needs to fill out more and get stronger. With him being a LD and Beaulieu/Tinordi looking to be in Hamilton next year as LD's, the Habs can take it slower with him if they wish. I've seen him a couple times already this year and he's shown good improvement while getting lots of quality ice time.
Very good OP. Well done. Question: Do you see Bennett as like McDo? What's your opinion? It would make me feel a lot better about the Gomer disaster to think that we have another McDo in the system...

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12-17-2011, 06:28 AM
  #42
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Montreal, I like it when you are bored at work. I hope it happens often as I like reading your work.

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Old
12-17-2011, 01:19 PM
  #43
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Very good OP. Well done. Question: Do you see Bennett as like McDo? What's your opinion? It would make me feel a lot better about the Gomer disaster to think that we have another McDo in the system...
Thanks. No Bennett is nothing like McDonagh, he's more like Subban but smaller and without the strength. He's an offensive D that loves to rush the puck up ice, very good mobility and speed. Last year there were knocks on his defensive play, some questionable decisions when pressured, but it could have been him adjusting to the higher level (USHS to USHL to NCAA in 2+ years) plus he was playing every other game, which ends up being once a week since they mostly just play on Friday/Saturday nights. This year though his defensive game looks much better, he's making smart decisions in his own end and while there's still going to be some mistakes with his aggressive rushes and pinches, he has the speed to cover ground quickly, plays with a lot of poise and seems to be solid positionally.

I saw a lot of McDonagh, his game was more about size/strength in the NCAA, Bennett is more about offense, skating, speed.

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Montreal, I like it when you are bored at work. I hope it happens often as I like reading your work.
Thanks, it's a slow time of year where I work so hopefully I can get some more articles done, as sometimes I write a lot and then other times I take off for long periods so I don't get burned out since I have been doing this for many years now. Always good to hear that others like to read what I write.

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12-17-2011, 01:42 PM
  #44
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Kristo has a bigger offensive potential than Leblanc, not many prospects aside from Gallagher have his ability to score goals. And Kristo even has more size and speed than Gallagher. He's gonna be a threat to watch.
Yeah I agree Kristo has more offensive potential, but I think he's also a riskier prospect. Leblanc may only be a third liner, but I think he's very very likely to stick in the league for a long time. Too soon to make the call on Kristo for me.

Montreal- Yeah fair point about Bennett belonging in the top cut of prospects. I go back and forth on what I think of him, and haven't seen him play in way to long to really judge at this point. He's certainly got the pedigree.

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12-17-2011, 01:50 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullsmith View Post
Yeah I agree Kristo has more offensive potential, but I think he's also a riskier prospect. Leblanc may only be a third liner, but I think he's very very likely to stick in the league for a long time. Too soon to make the call on Kristo for me.

Montreal- Yeah fair point about Bennett belonging in the top cut of prospects. I go back and forth on what I think of him, and haven't seen him play in way to long to really judge at this point. He's certainly got the pedigree.
Leblanc is much more of a lock to make the NHL, considering the fact that he's in the NHL already, but Kristo could be playing on a third line too. He's reliable enough IMO to be used in that situation.

To me, only Beaulieu has a higher potential than Kristo in our pool.
And I love Leblanc and Bournival.

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12-17-2011, 03:08 PM
  #46
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Thanks, it's a slow time of year where I work so hopefully I can get some more articles done, as sometimes I write a lot and then other times I take off for long periods so I don't get burned out since I have been doing this for many years now. Always good to hear that others like to read what I write.
Love reading your posts Montreal, really respect your opinion.

Can I get a link to your site? Thanks!

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12-18-2011, 03:44 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Bullsmith View Post
Yeah I agree Kristo has more offensive potential, but I think he's also a riskier prospect. Leblanc may only be a third liner, but I think he's very very likely to stick in the league for a long time. Too soon to make the call on Kristo for me.

Montreal- Yeah fair point about Bennett belonging in the top cut of prospects. I go back and forth on what I think of him, and haven't seen him play in way to long to really judge at this point. He's certainly got the pedigree.
I am not sure if Kristo has more offensive potential then Leblanc, as Leblanc is a smarter player and while I like Kristo's shot better and perhaps he ends up scoring more goals but I could see Leblanc getting more points. Although I think it's pretty close as I consider our forward prospects as the Big 3 (Leblanc, Gallagher, Kristo) as I'm not sure if Bournival should be in the group or not as I have him right on the outside. With the Big 3 I expect them to put up points wherever they play as they can all create offense, but can finish as well.

Bennett has impressive skills and is developing a solid two way game, the main concern I have though is his frame/lack of strength but he should have a couple years to work on that. Surely he's a prospect Hab fans should keep an eye out for down the road although with Beaulieu and Tinordi in front of him it would be understandable that he does get overlooked and that could actually work to his favor in time.

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Originally Posted by QuebecPride View Post
Leblanc is much more of a lock to make the NHL, considering the fact that he's in the NHL already, but Kristo could be playing on a third line too. He's reliable enough IMO to be used in that situation.

To me, only Beaulieu has a higher potential than Kristo in our pool.
And I love Leblanc and Bournival.
Leblanc has the smarts and better all round game. Kristo I think he could play on the 3rd line and not really hurt you, and his speed helps him cover mistakes in his own end. For me I have Leblanc higher because I think he's a much smarter player and while he doesn't have Kristo's great speed, imo he's got much higher hockey sense to go with a higher compete level. If Kristo reaches his high end potential (say something like a Michael Ryder but much much faster) I still don't know if he will be as good as I feel Leblanc could be.
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Originally Posted by NLHabsFan View Post
Love reading your posts Montreal, really respect your opinion.

Can I get a link to your site? Thanks!
Thanks!

http://www.habprospects.com/modules....rticle&sid=169

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12-18-2011, 03:48 PM
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I dunno about you guys but Kristo has dropped in my books. He's not tearing it up in the NCAA like he should. And I definitely feel Gallagher should be ahead of Kristo.

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12-18-2011, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by airic000 View Post
I dunno about you guys but Kristo has dropped in my books. He's not tearing it up in the NCAA like he should. And I definitely feel Gallagher should be ahead of Kristo.
I don't agree that Kristo isn't scoring like he should. He's over a PPG, 2nd on his team in goals and assists. North Dakota is a one line team, yet he's often either the best player each night or one of his linemates are. Granted he needs to be a little more consistent as 7 out of the 18 games he's played he didn't record a point and when you are the go to scorer along with Brock Nelson, if he doesn't score they don't often win.

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12-18-2011, 04:02 PM
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Not enough love for Brandon Nash, IMO.

He had a great season in the AHL last year, hasn't played yet this year due to an injury though.

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