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2011 Acq./Rost. Bldg./Cap Part 3

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12-16-2011, 08:21 AM
  #26
txpd
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i certainly would question whether ovechkin is cut out for a trap mentality. there's no question that his game is fired by energy. trap is the opposite of that. i think huntsie needs to be better about coaching the players his has. it could be that his players can play this way and it will pay dividends come playoffs.

what i see right now is a system that is meant forecheck hard and aggressive when the read says that option is there. otherwise drop back and trap. this team is used to forward motion and they are trying to relearn their instincts and erring on the side of safety. that means they are way too passive.

maybe that will pass as time goes by

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12-16-2011, 08:33 AM
  #27
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Its so early in Dale's tenure, but I like that we don't blindly fore check when there is nothing there to come out of it. 2 guys in deep that fail, they are gaining our blue without contest. Even a casual fan knows, that its not wise to push all in so often. The other team gets paid to breakout too, and they will. There is more than one zone to win a puck battle. And I have been loving seeing the likes of Alzner and Backstrom taking pucks away in center ice. You know what that does, it gets the other team moving the other way, minds moving to offense. If we only want to win a battle in the offensive zone, know they will always have 5 guys back.

When a Dman is bum rushed by our forward, the read is to support it, and we are. When the forecheck is there, we take it. If not, lets snag em in center ice. I like it, it makes sense to me. We needed change.

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12-16-2011, 08:40 AM
  #28
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yes. thats fine. thats huntsie's system. the players decide whether to forecheck or trap. a confident team will be more aggressive. that means being confident in their standing with their coach to trust their decision making and confidence in their goaltending whic they got last night.

good coaching.

that said hunter was not being dynamic and open minded. hunter plays the one strategy ahead or behind, winning or losing. its his game. lets not start selling him as something he is not. its not necessary and only delutes what he is really getting done

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12-16-2011, 09:13 AM
  #29
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You don't think its a dynamic system to let the players decide on the fly to forecheck or trap, fine. What would be dynamic to you? One that makes the players decide one of 3 different systems, collectively on the fly?

It took Bruce 4 years and an ugly losing streak before he tried to implement a trap. And from reasonable assumption, it may very well have been a directive from George. Before that, it seemed Bruce used a static (albeit a complex) system. We always looked the same to me. Under Dale, I am seeing different looks. I called it dynamic.

Its open minded in that it lets the players think. It doesn't force Ovi to trap the entire game, something you seem concerned about. Opposite of open minded = stubborn.

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12-16-2011, 09:14 AM
  #30
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why does nashville want to trade suter for semin? makes no sense on many levels
On the other hand, the Caps can just grab him for free (+ the absurd free agent contract) in the summer.

It's a pipe dream IMO....


Wouldn't be surprised to see Nashville resign him and move Weber in a blockbuster rather than pay Weber at around the highest paid D man in the NHL price that he's going to warrant.

Wonder if Poile learned his lesson all those years ago after seeing Stevens walk?

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George McPhee....The Teflon GM. 15 years of failure and counting....

6 - Number of playoff series the Capitals have won since George McPhee took over as General Manager in 1997 (which makes him the third-longest-tenured GM in the League), three of which came in McPhee's first season on the job.

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12-16-2011, 11:10 AM
  #31
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Perreault + Schlutz for Turris, please.

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Old
12-16-2011, 11:12 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
You don't think its a dynamic system to let the players decide on the fly to forecheck or trap, fine. What would be dynamic to you? One that makes the players decide one of 3 different systems, collectively on the fly?

It took Bruce 4 years and an ugly losing streak before he tried to implement a trap. And from reasonable assumption, it may very well have been a directive from George. Before that, it seemed Bruce used a static (albeit a complex) system. We always looked the same to me. Under Dale, I am seeing different looks. I called it dynamic.

Its open minded in that it lets the players think. It doesn't force Ovi to trap the entire game, something you seem concerned about. Opposite of open minded = stubborn.
under dale i see two looks. the primary 1-2-2 trap and the 2-1-2 forecheck when they read a chance to create pressure. i see that strategy remains regardless of score or time of game. that could be taken as stubborn. yes?

i see a pretty safe way of playing hockey and a team who's first thought now is to backup and play it safe. you can certainly see times where they feel like they have the other team on their heels and they push hard. but those times are the minority. more often they play like they did in the first period. rope a dope.

as long as they win, i dont care. i just see you description of what i was seeing and they dont jive. if you are happy, i am happy and lets leave it at that.

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12-16-2011, 11:13 AM
  #33
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Perreault + Schlutz for Turris, please.
Exactly the type of deal Phoenix SHOULD be looking for.

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12-16-2011, 11:15 AM
  #34
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Perreault + Schlutz for Turris, please.
turris 6 games 0g 0a 0pts -2. holdout players often stink. he stinks right now. you really want him?

why SHOULD the Yotes be looking for a deal like that? Schultz is an overpayed healthy scratch and Perreault a marginal nhl player.

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12-16-2011, 11:20 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
You don't think its a dynamic system to let the players decide on the fly to forecheck or trap, fine. What would be dynamic to you? One that makes the players decide one of 3 different systems, collectively on the fly?

It took Bruce 4 years and an ugly losing streak before he tried to implement a trap. And from reasonable assumption, it may very well have been a directive from George. Before that, it seemed Bruce used a static (albeit a complex) system. We always looked the same to me. Under Dale, I am seeing different looks. I called it dynamic.

Its open minded in that it lets the players think. It doesn't force Ovi to trap the entire game, something you seem concerned about. Opposite of open minded = stubborn.
Either way I hate the trap and its not nearly as entertaining as the BB Caps.

If the NHL capitalized on the how the Caps used to play, and developed rules to nurture that (some minds far smarter than mine would have to do this!) then it could have been a HUGE boon to hockey.

As it stood we have too many Hitchcocks and RJ Umburgers showing open disdain for that type of play. That "run n gun" hockey is what I grew up in the 80s watching and it was far more enjoyable than the dead puck era..which I fear we are heading towards again.

I like winning tho so I'll live with it for now but it still rubs me the wrong way.

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12-16-2011, 11:21 AM
  #36
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Semin for Brad Stuart and a pick

Schultz and a 1st and a good prospect for the good Bork

You know what kind of sucks? I'm not so sure its a no brainer that players would waive a NMC to come here anymore.

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12-16-2011, 11:26 AM
  #37
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And JVR isn't?
2nd pairing puck mover > 2nd line winger, IMO.

Creative puck movers that can also play defense are on of the hardest assets to find in hockey. No way I move Orlov for someone like JVR at this point, especially with Green's future up in the air. There's a decent chance Orlvo would be the team's second pairing RD next season, let alone in a couple seasons.

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12-16-2011, 11:28 AM
  #38
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Semin for Brad Stuart and a pick

Schultz and a 1st and a good prospect for the good Bork

You know what kind of sucks? I'm not so sure its a no brainer that players would waive a NMC to come here anymore.
Detroit doesn't do that deal. Calgary might.

I think you overestimate the effect that this little slump has on player perception. Unless a player has really strong ties to an area outside hockey (a la Doan in Phoenix), they'd waive to come here from a bad organization.

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12-16-2011, 11:32 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
turris 6 games 0g 0a 0pts -2. holdout players often stink. he stinks right now. you really want him?

why SHOULD the Yotes be looking for a deal like that? Schultz is an overpayed healthy scratch and Perreault a marginal nhl player.
Turris still has a lot of upside and in a bottom 6 role he is fine.

Doubt PHO does it, wishful thinking on my part.

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12-16-2011, 11:33 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
2nd pairing puck mover > 2nd line winger, IMO.

Creative puck movers that can also play defense are on of the hardest assets to find in hockey. No way I move Orlov for someone like JVR at this point, especially with Green's future up in the air. There's a decent chance Orlvo would be the team's second pairing RD next season, let alone in a couple seasons.
Agreed. He's made and executed high level passes from back end better than anything we've seen. Green can skate. And most off dmen make plays, but this kid seems to make every decision right.

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12-16-2011, 11:36 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
turris 6 games 0g 0a 0pts -2. holdout players often stink. he stinks right now. you really want him?

why SHOULD the Yotes be looking for a deal like that? Schultz is an overpayed healthy scratch and Perreault a marginal nhl player.
Both young NHL players with experience and some upside. That's my selling line if I'm McPhee.

Shultz can't crack the lineup now because our D is playing so good! I mean, look at the shutout last night. The D did all the work, just making sure that Neuvy didn't trip over his own feet and get in the way was a job well done.

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12-16-2011, 11:37 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
2nd pairing puck mover > 2nd line winger, IMO.

Creative puck movers that can also play defense are on of the hardest assets to find in hockey. No way I move Orlov for someone like JVR at this point, especially with Green's future up in the air. There's a decent chance Orlvo would be the team's second pairing RD next season, let alone in a couple seasons.
Simply put Orlov kicks arse. Skating, shooting, passing, hitting etc etc. He's a gem they MUST hold onto. He has top pairing dman written all over him or at the very least 2nd pairing like he is playing right now. His potential is thru the roof.

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12-16-2011, 11:37 AM
  #43
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i am not sweating holtby's issues. same could have been said of neuvirth approaching last night's game. last in the league in sv% and all.

edit: frankly, his cockiness and edge needed to and was definately going to be challenged and that its happening at hershey is fine by me. that part of his game that so many love is very hard to make work and a main reason why its so rare. playing the puck aggressively and using his stick against opposing players is far down the list of goalie priorities and need to be used judiciously.

last season i can recall that he holtby making a fine aggressive play with the puck that created a scoring chance. the next time he touched the puck he gave it away and he was still standing behind the goal line when the puck went into his net.

my guess is that dale hunter will want him to stop the puck first. he likes an edge but is also conservative about it. i bet he wants his goalies to be known for stopping the puck more than passing it or slashing opposing crease cruisers
I agree.

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12-16-2011, 11:40 AM
  #44
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Turris still has a lot of upside and in a bottom 6 role he is fine.

Doubt PHO does it, wishful thinking on my part.
I don't agree with this at all personally. A player like Turris really has to play in a top 6 role if they want to adequately develop him. He's not a checker by any stretch from what I've seen in limited viewing.

His contract isn't all that great either is it? Didn't he just get something in the area of 3 million for a couple years or so? He's not worth that right now for a team like us. We are trying to win now not wait to groom him.

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12-16-2011, 11:45 AM
  #45
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Can turris be a better 2nd line winger paired with mojo semin? Could he be a better 4th c than mp? Could he injury backfill higher up better than mp? Is there other interest in mp/sarge that provides better benefits?

I don't know this in full. But the gm better.

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12-16-2011, 11:51 AM
  #46
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I don't agree with this at all personally. A player like Turris really has to play in a top 6 role if they want to adequately develop him. He's not a checker by any stretch from what I've seen in limited viewing.

His contract isn't all that great either is it? Didn't he just get something in the area of 3 million for a couple years or so? He's not worth that right now for a team like us. We are trying to win now not wait to groom him.
Most of our 4th line aren't checkers either....just sayin...

If Matty P can find a parttime home there, Turris can.

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12-16-2011, 11:56 AM
  #47
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Most of our 4th line aren't checkers either....just sayin...

If Matty P can find a parttime home there, Turris can.
Our starting 4th line was Beagle/Halpern/Hendricks. Injuries has made it not optimal but that doesn't mean MP is a better fit on the 4th line than any of those 3.

Turris is not going to develop his offensive game by playing 5-10 minutes a game with lower skilled linemates.

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12-16-2011, 12:04 PM
  #48
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I don't agree with this at all personally. A player like Turris really has to play in a top 6 role if they want to adequately develop him. He's not a checker by any stretch from what I've seen in limited viewing.

His contract isn't all that great either is it? Didn't he just get something in the area of 3 million for a couple years or so? He's not worth that right now for a team like us. We are trying to win now not wait to groom him.
Well he could play in a top 6 role here. Its not like anyone in our top 6 is setting the house on fire. He'd also be able to play with talent he hasn't played with in his career.

He got somewhere in the $2.5mil range iirc, currently his cap hit is $1.4mil. Don't know how much salary PHO is capable of taking back though.

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12-16-2011, 12:06 PM
  #49
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Well he could play in a top 6 role here. Its not like anyone in our top 6 is setting the house on fire. He'd also be able to play with talent he hasn't played with in his career.

He got somewhere in the $2.5mil range iirc, currently his cap hit is $1.4mil. Don't know how much salary PHO is capable of taking back though.
Isn't that the truth. Now I'm depressed. Thanks for bringing that up!

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12-16-2011, 12:42 PM
  #50
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Perreault + Schlutz for Turris, please.
Let's hope.

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