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Messier battling Canucks for $ UPD: Awarded $6m by Arbitrator

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05-28-2012, 08:21 PM
  #301
RobertKron
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I also remember hearing about either Odjick or Brashear or both of them having directly challenged Keenan to a fight on the bench during a game.

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05-28-2012, 10:12 PM
  #302
vadim sharifijanov
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I also remember hearing about either Odjick or Brashear or both of them having directly challenged Keenan to a fight on the bench during a game.
they were separate altercations, iirc. i think gino's was in the dressing room or keenan's office, something about things getting tense, then the phone ringing, then gino saying, "if you answer the phone i will beat the *** out of you," and keenan not picking up the phone.

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05-28-2012, 10:12 PM
  #303
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When did Trevor go directly to the media about anything? Even to this day, he's kept his mouth shut with respect to his opinion about what went on during those days or what even happened to him.
it was revealed after the trade finally happen. unfortunately, it was so long ago (and on paper) I no longer have the source.

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A couple of points here. No. 1, Messier came in and brazenly declared there had been a "country club atmosphere" on this team, instantly throwing many of his new teammates under the bus. No. 2, he did not usher in a new culture - at least not a winning one. The team went from bad to worse under his tenure (and Keenan's) both on the ice and off of it. It really wasn't until Burke and Crawford got in charge of the team that the culture shifted from the double standards it enjoyed during Messier's time to one of the team buying into equal treatment and community involvement. Messier frequently skipped out on those.
Was there not a country club atmosphere? Was this a team that could do no wrong? It was a Power Play worth 10's of millions of dollars that was completely anemic. Mogilny and Bure both needed to play on the top line to play decently - but they couldn't play on the same line. Cliff Ronning was gone. We all know what happened to McLean - but this team still thought it was that same '94 team.

Most Canucks fans I know recognize that Trevor had to do the John the Baptist for Naslund to prosper (and Bure had to quit the team for that to happen too, of course). Not getting rid of Trevor was the one instruction the owners had for Keenan when he was finally given the power to make trades and it was the #1 thing he wanted to do. You couldn't have both Messier (Keenan) and Trevor in the same locker room and Keenan knew it. It had to be a new team. You could argue if Keenan could run the team he wanted/needed to earlier, he could have done something here.

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05-28-2012, 10:31 PM
  #304
vadim sharifijanov
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to set the record straight, it was gino that spoke to the media after the linden trade. messier openly speculated to the press that "someone" (i.e., linden) was too cowardly to say it himself so gino had to do it for him.

gino's two other big confrontations with keenan (other than the one i mentioned in my last post) were 1. after keenan rips linden in front of the whole team. gino stands up and says, "how can you question his heart? in all my years here, there is not a single person i respect more than trevor linden."

2. keenan says something about "quinn's boys" and the country club atmosphere. gino says something like, "you can say whatever you want about me, come on call me a dumb indian, i dare you. but don't you ever talk about pat quinn like that."

man, i bet keenan just couldn't wait to get rid of him.


one last note before i get myself too riled up: i think it's hilarious that messier defenders always play the naslund card. yeah, he taught naslund how to be a captain (debatable, by the way; what's naslund going to say when he's asked about what he learned from messier? that he learned nothing because messier was a p.o.s.?). but if messier had anything to do with training markus "we choked" naslund to be a leader, he did a pretty crappy job of it.

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05-28-2012, 10:44 PM
  #305
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Originally Posted by LuckyDay View Post
it was revealed after the trade finally happen. unfortunately, it was so long ago (and on paper) I no longer have the source.
I don't recall ever seeing, hearing or reading a word about anything like that. Linden has been almost notoriously silent on the matter.

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Was there not a country club atmosphere? Was this a team that could do no wrong? It was a Power Play worth 10's of millions of dollars that was completely anemic. Mogilny and Bure both needed to play on the top line to play decently - but they couldn't play on the same line. Cliff Ronning was gone. We all know what happened to McLean - but this team still thought it was that same '94 team.
It would make more sense if some of the big names who purportedly actually contributed to that atmosphere were the ones dealt. Instead it was guys noted for their character and work ethic such as Linden and Martin Gelinas who were sent packing.

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Most Canucks fans I know recognize that Trevor had to do the John the Baptist for Naslund to prosper (and Bure had to quit the team for that to happen too, of course). Not getting rid of Trevor was the one instruction the owners had for Keenan when he was finally given the power to make trades and it was the #1 thing he wanted to do. You couldn't have both Messier (Keenan) and Trevor in the same locker room and Keenan knew it. It had to be a new team. You could argue if Keenan could run the team he wanted/needed to earlier, he could have done something here.
You speak with the benefit of hindsight. The only reasons we have anything positive to say about Keenan's era in Vancouver are the amazingly good return he got in the Linden deal, and the fact that Bertuzzi broke his leg one year thus prohibiting Keenan from pulling the trigger on a deal that would have sent Markus Naslund to the Ottawa Senators for a 4th round draft pick.

And why couldn't we have Messier and Linden in the same locker room? If Messier is this great, Messiah-like, lauded leader whose capable of playing with HOFers galore, shouldn't he have been able to get on just fine with the consumate teammate and professional in Trevor Linden?

I do not see a single argument whatsoever that Keenan could have "done something here" if he had been given free reign earlier. Once he was given free reign, he turned the team into a nosedive in much the same fashion that he had with the St. Louis Blues.

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05-28-2012, 10:57 PM
  #306
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Personally I don't hate Messier, I just think his gargantuan ego got the best of him when he signed here. He was an amazing player and leader for both the Oilers and Rangers and when he came here he was expected to lead the Canucks to the promised land and fell flat on his face. I don't believe he came here with the intention of just collecting a fat paycheck and sitting on his ass. I think he bit off more than his aging ass could chew and it all crumbled around him.

My parents got to spend some time with him at his induction to the Canadian Sports Hall of Fame and said he was a great guy, very accommodating and a pleasure to talk to. They told him I was a Canuck fan and he said "Oh man...he probably hates me", and they went on to talk and he said he had a lot of regrets about how things turned out...came off as pretty genuine to me, but I wasn't there so who knows? But my parents were impressed with him.

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05-28-2012, 11:37 PM
  #307
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My parents got to spend some time with him at his induction to the Canadian Sports Hall of Fame and said he was a great guy, very accommodating and a pleasure to talk to. They told him I was a Canuck fan and he said "Oh man...he probably hates me", and they went on to talk and he said he had a lot of regrets about how things turned out...came off as pretty genuine to me, but I wasn't there so who knows? But my parents were impressed with him.
Messier certainly didn't feel guilty suing for more cash for doing jack*** for the team.

Bobby Orr never cashed a single cheque from the Black Hawks because he felt he didn't earn it (he feeling was that he had to play to deserve that money). THAT is class and a man of honor.

Screw Messier and screw Eagleson.

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05-28-2012, 11:39 PM
  #308
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Originally Posted by Barney Gumble View Post
Messier certainly didn't feel guilty suing for more cash for doing jack*** for the team.

Bobby Orr never cashed a single cheque from the Black Hawks because he felt he didn't earn it (he feeling was that he had to play to deserve that money). THAT is class and a man of honor.

Screw Messier and screw Eagleson.
If he's contractually owed money, he's entitled to get it.

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05-28-2012, 11:49 PM
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Wow, from reading the responses, Messier is viewed the exact opposite as Ranger fans view him. We had a whole playoff rally 'We will win tonight' avatar to support the team for game 6 against New Jersey. He is a legend here. I understand this however. Bobby Holik was a great player for the Devils, along with John McLean, but both players were despised when they played for the Rangers. Holik in particular bashed the Rangers while playing for them. He continued to make half assed remarks on his blog during the playoff run. His smug reports after the Devils-Rangers games in the ECF pissed me off. Messier was no saint, I understand. He was probably one of the dirtiest players of all time, depending on who you ask. I remember watching the video of that elbow he did to that Russian defender in the Canada Cup, I believe. He was attempting to ruin his career on that hit. But players do play with an edge. Depending on who you ask, people will consider Gordie Howe or Scott Stevens dirty players.

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05-29-2012, 12:17 AM
  #310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barney Gumble View Post
Messier certainly didn't feel guilty suing for more cash for doing jack*** for the team.

Bobby Orr never cashed a single cheque from the Black Hawks because he felt he didn't earn it (he feeling was that he had to play to deserve that money). THAT is class and a man of honor.

Screw Messier and screw Eagleson.
Eagleson screwed Orr pretty bad. Bobby's a pretty rich guy today but he'd be even richer if Eagleson had bothered to tell him about an ownership stake on the table in the contract offer from Boston he also never bothered to tell him about, instead pushing his buddy Wirtz's much lower one on Orr.

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05-29-2012, 01:15 AM
  #311
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
Wow, from reading the responses, Messier is viewed the exact opposite as Ranger fans view him. We had a whole playoff rally 'We will win tonight' avatar to support the team for game 6 against New Jersey. He is a legend here. I understand this however. Bobby Holik was a great player for the Devils, along with John McLean, but both players were despised when they played for the Rangers. Holik in particular bashed the Rangers while playing for them. He continued to make half assed remarks on his blog during the playoff run. His smug reports after the Devils-Rangers games in the ECF pissed me off. Messier was no saint, I understand. He was probably one of the dirtiest players of all time, depending on who you ask. I remember watching the video of that elbow he did to that Russian defender in the Canada Cup, I believe. He was attempting to ruin his career on that hit. But players do play with an edge. Depending on who you ask, people will consider Gordie Howe or Scott Stevens dirty players.
I think you guys are totally with in your right to worship Messier. He had a lot succes earlier in his career and led you to the promised land. At some pout though, he lost his way though, and unfortunately for us he lost it in Vancouver.

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05-29-2012, 01:28 AM
  #312
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
Wow, from reading the responses, Messier is viewed the exact opposite as Ranger fans view him. We had a whole playoff rally 'We will win tonight' avatar to support the team for game 6 against New Jersey. He is a legend here. I understand this however. Bobby Holik was a great player for the Devils, along with John McLean, but both players were despised when they played for the Rangers. Holik in particular bashed the Rangers while playing for them. He continued to make half assed remarks on his blog during the playoff run. His smug reports after the Devils-Rangers games in the ECF pissed me off. Messier was no saint, I understand. He was probably one of the dirtiest players of all time, depending on who you ask. I remember watching the video of that elbow he did to that Russian defender in the Canada Cup, I believe. He was attempting to ruin his career on that hit. But players do play with an edge. Depending on who you ask, people will consider Gordie Howe or Scott Stevens dirty players.
I completely get the love that Rangers and Oilers fans for him. He did amazing things for both franchises, and was a great player as well as a pillar in both communities.

The sad thing for us here is that he just wasn't any of that in Vancouver.

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05-29-2012, 01:59 AM
  #313
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I completely get the love that Rangers and Oilers fans for him. He did amazing things for both franchises, and was a great player as well as a pillar in both communities.

The sad thing for us here is that he just wasn't any of that in Vancouver.
Maybe those blue sunglasses he had when he showed up were a vessel carrying an evil spirit that took possession of him while he was here. It's the only logical explanation.

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05-29-2012, 02:26 AM
  #314
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05-29-2012, 03:44 AM
  #315
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to set the record straight, it was gino that spoke to the media after the linden trade. messier openly speculated to the press that "someone" (i.e., linden) was too cowardly to say it himself so gino had to do it for him.

gino's two other big confrontations with keenan (other than the one i mentioned in my last post) were 1. after keenan rips linden in front of the whole team. gino stands up and says, "how can you question his heart? in all my years here, there is not a single person i respect more than trevor linden."

2. keenan says something about "quinn's boys" and the country club atmosphere. gino says something like, "you can say whatever you want about me, come on call me a dumb indian, i dare you. but don't you ever talk about pat quinn like that."
...
Ring of Honour, Ring of Honour, Ring of Honour!

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05-29-2012, 03:48 AM
  #316
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He wore the number of a dead man whose family was publicly unhappy with him doing so. He exhibited no class, sporadic leadership, and abysmal effort. He is hated for a reason. He was a fraud.

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05-29-2012, 10:55 AM
  #317
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Ring of Honour, Ring of Honour, Ring of Honour!
and show his fight with strudwick on a loop on the jumbotron during the ceremony

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05-29-2012, 11:04 AM
  #318
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and show his fight with strudwick on a loop on the jumbotron during the ceremony
Is there a video of this fight somewhere?! I'd love to see it, I don't think I've seen it since the day it happened. Never seen the crowd that jacked up before, chanting the name of an opposing team's player.

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05-29-2012, 11:15 AM
  #319
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Wow, from reading the responses, Messier is viewed the exact opposite as Ranger fans view him. We had a whole playoff rally 'We will win tonight' avatar to support the team for game 6 against New Jersey. He is a legend here. I understand this however. Bobby Holik was a great player for the Devils, along with John McLean, but both players were despised when they played for the Rangers. Holik in particular bashed the Rangers while playing for them. He continued to make half assed remarks on his blog during the playoff run. His smug reports after the Devils-Rangers games in the ECF pissed me off. Messier was no saint, I understand. He was probably one of the dirtiest players of all time, depending on who you ask. I remember watching the video of that elbow he did to that Russian defender in the Canada Cup, I believe. He was attempting to ruin his career on that hit. But players do play with an edge. Depending on who you ask, people will consider Gordie Howe or Scott Stevens dirty players.
He took a Ryan Kesler dive in a playoff game as well - except he took it to another level. As the camera zoomed in on Messier laying prone on the ice, Messier gave a "Burt Reynolds wink at the camera and smiled". When your team wins Cups, those kind of things get tend to glossed over.

Messier was like "Fat Elvis" as a Canuck. The Sun records/classic Elvis was the Oilers version. The Las Vegas comeback Elvis was the Ranger Messier.

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and show his fight with strudwick on a loop on the jumbotron during the ceremony
Far better to show the "Gino vs the entire St. Blues team" video.

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Originally Posted by Canucker View Post
If he's contractually owed money, he's entitled to get it.
Well morally he shouldn't IMHO. But everyone has their own moral compass. His is pointed at his wallet. Can't he just peddle some Torritos if he needed the money?


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05-29-2012, 11:30 AM
  #320
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Well morally he shouldn't IMHO. But everyone has their own moral compass. His is pointed at his wallet. Can't he just peddle some Torritos if he needed the money?
Morally the Canucks shouldn't be withholding it, whether Messier "deserves" it or not.

It's not like he's stated his intent to use the money to fund terrorist groups or execute puppies or anything like that, and it's almost certainly not an amount of money that is going to bankrupt the Canucks so whether he "morally" deserves money or not is irrelevant.

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05-29-2012, 11:35 AM
  #321
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Morally the Canucks shouldn't be withholding it, whether Messier "deserves" it or not.
I was talking from the POV of Messier not the club. My distaste for the player is to the point this will be last time I'll be commenting on it in this thread. Just a horrible time in this franchise history (not like there have been alot of highlights) that I'd just as soon forget.

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05-29-2012, 11:41 AM
  #322
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I was talking from the POV of Messier not the club. My distaste for the player is to the point this will be last time I'll be commenting on it in this thread. Just a horrible time in this franchise history (not like there have been alot of highlights) that I'd just as soon forget.
I dislike Mess as much as the next Canucks fan, but IMO if someone is owed money and doesn't get it.. well it's tough to hold their pursuit of what they feel is theirs against them.

To me this squabble is a little embarrassing as a Canucks fan, both in the sense of having to look back to the Messier era and in the sense that this is just another occasion of the Canucks organization failing to give a player their due compensation. Thankfully under Mike Gillis these sorts of shenanigans haven't been going on (that we know of).

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05-29-2012, 11:42 AM
  #323
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Is there a video of this fight somewhere?! I'd love to see it, I don't think I've seen it since the day it happened. Never seen the crowd that jacked up before, chanting the name of an opposing team's player.
not that i'm aware of. that was actually the last time i was inside GM place, and i honestly don't even remember anything about the fight, just the insane reaction of the crowd. only other thing i remember from that game was the standing O we gave linden and the jumbotron showing him tearing up on the bench.

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05-29-2012, 12:06 PM
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It makes my blood boil when I think about Messier. Everything he said about it being a lazy country club atmosphere in Vancouver was a total joke. This guy was the biggest hypocrite. I know a few people that knew him on a daily basis and others that encountered him and they usually say the same things. He was a nice guy but let's just say he did not act very professionally. All he did when he was here was celebrate his big contract and party - a lot. He didn't not give a crap about this team.

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05-29-2012, 12:09 PM
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Who cares about morals. If the Canucks want to fight it out with a former player - who was paid pretty handsomely during his stay here - in court let em have at.

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