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Hawks 2011-12 Rumor , Speculation , Trade Proposal , etc thread

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Old
02-07-2012, 12:51 PM
  #926
Illinihockey
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Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
I have seen both play, couple years ago Lalonde in London, On (w/ OS and Rookie Tourny) and Clendening at the WJC. Neither play small, but neither play big either.

Obsession with size is getting out of hand?
This year is the perfect example, we have all these talented farm players, but they are all small and don't add a whole lot when they aren't scoring. Say next year, when we need farm call ups, I would much prefer to call up guys with some size that can play at the NHL level. Instead of calling up Shaw, Pirri, and Smith, we can call up Beach, Paradis and Morin (if they are ready) and have more size in our line-up. Size may not be the be all end all, but it's something we truly lack lately. All things equal, I would much rather have a guy who is a big, gritty, go to the net player (Perry) rather than a smaller flashy forward who doesn't intimidate at all. (Kane)

Name one Stanley Cup winner that didn't have a mean, gritty, go to the net, big talented forward in their top 9

Boston - Lucic, Marchand, Horton
Chicago - Buff, Ladd,
Pittsburgh - might be the only team without one (unfortunately we don't employ a combination of Malkin, Crosby, Staal and Fleury on the same team)
Detroit - Bertuzzi, Holmstrom, Franzen
Anaheim - Getzlaf, Ryan, Perry, Penner

Who does Chicago have this year?
Stalberg, he is the biggest, meanest, grittest forward in our top 9 and that isn't saying much.
Brad Marchand is 5'9...he's big now?

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Old
02-07-2012, 03:02 PM
  #927
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Originally Posted by Illinihockey View Post
Brad Marchand is 5'9...he's big now?
Not what I was getting at. I don't mean just big, I mean plays big.

Marchand plays bigger than everyone on our team not named Mayers, and he is smaller than everyone.

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Old
02-07-2012, 03:10 PM
  #928
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Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
Not what I was getting at. I don't mean just big, I mean plays big.

Marchand plays bigger than everyone on our team not named Mayers, and he is smaller than everyone.
Marchand plays big because he's a cheapshot artist. If the puck is in the corner I trust Hossa and Toews to come out of there with it before Marchand.

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02-07-2012, 03:15 PM
  #929
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Originally Posted by Illinihockey View Post
Marchand plays big because he's a cheapshot artist. If the puck is in the corner I trust Hossa and Toews to come out of there with it before Marchand.
Who cares? He is still a tough kid willing to do the dirty work and play big.

Marchand is willing to stand in front of the net and take abuse, and go into the corners and fight for the puck.

We need players like him.

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Old
02-07-2012, 04:02 PM
  #930
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I agree as well. I'm not happy with Stan trending towards a European style of play, Detroit style. He could take a page out of Burke's book of signing players with truculence in their game. Make it so teams hate to play the Hawks.
Detroit is a hell of a team and leads our conference... Burke misses the POs on a regular basis or he takes a team that is already good and gets the praise for it when they win. BB is not a guy we should look at

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Old
02-07-2012, 04:05 PM
  #931
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Who cares? He is still a tough kid willing to do the dirty work and play big.

Marchand is willing to stand in front of the net and take abuse, and go into the corners and fight for the puck.

We need players like him.
David Bolland is a lot like Marchand in that respect. Bolland does a ton of dirty work.

Toews is always getting in front of the net and going into the corners too.

This team is missing bottom 6 ass kickers that will run you through the boards, not guys that are scared to go to the net.

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Old
02-07-2012, 04:38 PM
  #932
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Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
Who cares? He is still a tough kid willing to do the dirty work and play big.

Marchand is willing to stand in front of the net and take abuse, and go into the corners and fight for the puck.

We need players like him.
I don't disagree with the point you're making - the Hawks are one of the least physical teams in the league.

But, if you're going to use Marchand as an example on one side of the argument - then you shouldn't use Shaw as an example for the other side of the argument because they are very similar player. Shaw is 5 years younger and doesn't have the scoring and over-the-line dirty plays that Marchand has but he plays a very similar style and does the things you want the Hawks to do more of.

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Old
02-07-2012, 05:55 PM
  #933
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Fine, take Marchand out. They still have Lucic and Horton.

But he still plays bigger than any forward on our top 9.

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Old
02-07-2012, 06:56 PM
  #934
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Look, I want the Hawks to be a tougher team too.

But I don't think it's a good idea to move good players and focus on worse ones just because of a size difference.

Like I said, good players are good players regardless of their size. I'd rather have a team of good hockey players than a team of big hockey players.

Hitting doesn't win championships. Defense wins championships, and that's exactly what the Hawks need to re-commit to.

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Old
02-07-2012, 07:32 PM
  #935
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Originally Posted by Sevanston View Post
Look, I want the Hawks to be a tougher team too.

But I don't think it's a good idea to move good players and focus on worse ones just because of a size difference.
Like I said, good players are good players regardless of their size. I'd rather have a team of good hockey players than a team of big hockey players.

Hitting doesn't win championships. Defense wins championships, and that's exactly what the Hawks need to re-commit to.
You mean like Montreal Canadian forwards? They're small but simply don't have enough players that play with the grit of a Marchand.

Playing large is probably more important than actual size, but a 220 lb player with grit and character will always win the battles with an equivalent player 20 or more lbs lighter.

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Old
02-07-2012, 07:39 PM
  #936
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The players on the Canadiens wouldn't look so bad if they had a coach that was actually competent.

But I also never thought a lot of their smurfs were very good to begin with. Plekanec being the exception, and at 200lbs, Pleks isn't much of a midget.

Kruger, Pirri, Clendening, and to a lesser extent Lalonde and Smith are actually good players.

Of course, we could always build ourselves to be like the Leafs. They certainly know that teams of big hockey players always go far. Amirite?


Last edited by Sevanston: 02-07-2012 at 07:45 PM. Reason: Cammy isn't with the Habs anymore
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Old
02-07-2012, 07:41 PM
  #937
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Outside of Plekanec and a healthy Gionta, Montreal's forwards aren't very good.

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Old
02-07-2012, 07:51 PM
  #938
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To anyone who had their fingers crossed about a deal for Nielsen, NYI just re-upped him.

4 years, $11M. 2.75M cap hit.

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Old
02-07-2012, 07:54 PM
  #939
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Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
Detroit is a hell of a team and leads our conference... Burke misses the POs on a regular basis or he takes a team that is already good and gets the praise for it when they win. BB is not a guy we should look at
Have you seen the Leafs play lately? I've never been a fan of BB but he has done a helluva job, imo. They're still inconsistent defensively but they're a much improved team and nobody pushes them around. (I can't believe I just said that, but it's true).

Don't you get sick of us getting physically dominated literally every game? I do.

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Old
02-07-2012, 07:56 PM
  #940
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To anyone who had their fingers crossed about a deal for Nielsen, NYI just re-upped him.

4 years, $11M. 2.75M cap hit.
That's a solid deal for a guy who's been respected across the league, is great in his own end, and for someone who's been making peanuts for awhile.

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Old
02-07-2012, 07:58 PM
  #941
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I don't know that this really needs to be stated, since I think we all knew it, but

TimSassone: #Blackhawks aren't trading for Nash, Suter, Weber, Thomas. Think Ruutu, Gill, Sutton, Kubina. Sorry to disappoint everyone..

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Old
02-07-2012, 08:00 PM
  #942
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyJet View Post
Have you seen the Leafs play lately? I've never been a fan of BB but he has done a helluva job, imo. They're still inconsistent defensively but they're a much improved team and nobody pushes them around. (I can't believe I just said that, but it's true).

Don't you get sick of us getting physically dominated literally every game? I do.
Anyone who thought the Leafs top six was going to be this good with Kulemin having a down year is insane or a liar.

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Old
02-07-2012, 08:06 PM
  #943
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Anyone who thought the Leafs top six was going to be this good with Kulemin having a down year is insane or a liar.
Or they're Brian Burke

But he's insane, so technically your statement is still true.

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Old
02-07-2012, 08:23 PM
  #944
Hawkaholic
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Originally Posted by Sevanston View Post
Look, I want the Hawks to be a tougher team too.

But I don't think it's a good idea to move good players and focus on worse ones just because of a size difference.

Like I said, good players are good players regardless of their size. I'd rather have a team of good hockey players than a team of big hockey players.

Hitting doesn't win championships. Defense wins championships, and that's exactly what the Hawks need to re-commit to.
The players I mentioned to trade aren't that much better than the big forwards I listed. Not only that, the better players get you better players now.

Why hold onto Pirri if we can use him as bait for a Top 6 player?
He and Kruger do not need to both be here. One of them should go in a trade, preferably Pirri to upgrade our team this year.

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Old
02-07-2012, 08:38 PM
  #945
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Who cares? He is still a tough kid willing to do the dirty work and play big.

Marchand is willing to stand in front of the net and take abuse, and go into the corners and fight for the puck.

We need players like him.
Marcus Kruger.

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Old
02-07-2012, 08:44 PM
  #946
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Originally Posted by DisgruntledHawkFan View Post
Anyone who thought the Leafs top six was going to be this good with Kulemin having a down year is insane or a liar.
No question there was some luck involved, especially with Lupul and Reimer but they've still come a long way after a shaky beginning under Burke/Wilson.

The point I was trying to make was no team likes to go into Maple Leaf Gardens these days and that is what Burke said was his first goal from day one in TO.

It used to be that no team enjoyed coming to play in Chicago either. I'd like that to return.

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Old
02-07-2012, 09:01 PM
  #947
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Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
Marcus Kruger.
Except, unfortunately for us, Marchand is much, much, MUCH better offensively once he gets the puck in those battles.

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Old
02-07-2012, 09:44 PM
  #948
Hawkaholic
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Marcus Kruger.
Really? Kruger would get run over by Marchand.

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Old
02-07-2012, 09:46 PM
  #949
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Really? Kruger would get run over by Marchand.
Kruger tries to do it all the time. He just gets shoved over by an opponent using only one arm and goes to the ice when he does. Kid needs to eat his Wheaties before next season and hit the weight room.

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02-07-2012, 11:57 PM
  #950
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