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Hurricanes' venue name changing to PNC Arena

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Old
12-16-2011, 11:45 AM
  #1
LadyStanley
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Hurricanes' venue name changing to PNC Arena

http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/12/...-new-name.html

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Thanks to the alphabet soup of corporate naming rights, Raleigh's round, white sports complex has just received its third official acronym: the PNC Arena, which replaces the RBC Center, which replaced the ESA.

Now, the Carolina Hurricanes and N.C. State Wolfpack will compete inside a building named for a bank based in Pittsburgh rather than a bank with Canada in its name.

Drivers on Wade Avenue could see PNC's orange and white triangle logo - or is it a boomerang? - rather than the familiar blue and yellow lion with its paw on a globe.

The switch comes as PNC Financial Services Group acquires Raleigh-based RBC Bank. Initial approval came from the Centennial Authority, the arena's owner and developer. The 20-year deal is worth $80 million.

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12-16-2011, 12:14 PM
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Makes sense, since RBC actually stood for Royal Bank of CANADA.

I laugh at the TD Garden too. Toronto Dominion Garden. Just too bad the Leafs can't win there...

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12-16-2011, 12:19 PM
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WJG
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Yeah I always found it weird that Canadian banks would want the naming rights to NHL arenas in American cities (unless those banks have a strong presence in those cities).

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12-16-2011, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by WJG View Post
Yeah I always found it weird that Canadian banks would want the naming rights to NHL arenas in American cities (unless those banks have a strong presence in those cities).
TD has spread down to the Northeastern US (and they're all over Boston). I don't think RBC does a lot of everyday banking stuff in the US, but they have a presence for the investment side of things.

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12-16-2011, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02 View Post
Makes sense, since RBC actually stood for Royal Bank of CANADA.

I laugh at the TD Garden too. Toronto Dominion Garden. Just too bad the Leafs can't win there...
Pittsburgh National Corporation



At least it's in the same country, I guess...

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12-16-2011, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by WJG View Post
Yeah I always found it weird that Canadian banks would want the naming rights to NHL arenas in American cities (unless those banks have a strong presence in those cities).
RBC had a decent sized presence in the NC area, not sure why they sold off those assets.

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12-16-2011, 12:42 PM
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RBC had a decent sized presence in the NC area, not sure why they sold off those assets.
Dodd-Frank I would guess.

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12-16-2011, 12:43 PM
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The switch comes as PNC Financial Services Group acquires Raleigh-based RBC Bank
The fact that the "C" stood for "Canada" is just a piece of trivia.

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12-16-2011, 12:49 PM
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Given that corporate naming of rinks and stadiums often changes with relative frequency, do you think that naming rights are overvalued?

For example, everyone in Toronto knows where the Skydome is. For Rogers Stadium, not so much.

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12-16-2011, 01:21 PM
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The bank in the US was officially just called "RBC Bank", as though the letters meant nothing.

Is it any more strange than Charter One/Citizens Bank being owned by the Royal Bank of Scotland? Or the Hongkong Shanghai Bank Corp being based in London and having branches in every country on the planet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by saskganesh View Post
Given that corporate naming of rinks and stadiums often changes with relative frequency, do you think that naming rights are overvalued?

For example, everyone in Toronto knows where the Skydome is. For Rogers Stadium, not so much.
There are two issues at play here... one is when naming rights deals are tied to the presence of local branches and the other is buying the name rights to established venues. The former is probably worth it because the value's still there for the company that acquires those branches... PNC has managed to increase their brand power immensely by keeping every sponsorship deal in every new market they enter, it helps build an instant connection and create a sense of continuity for customers.

In the other scenario, no it isn't worth it. It's why places like the Metrodome and Oakland Coliseum run through sponsors like they do, there's no value to be had. Unless you get in at the beginning with a deal that will last for the life of the arena, it's rarely going to be worth the trouble.


Last edited by Brodie: 12-16-2011 at 01:28 PM.
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12-16-2011, 01:29 PM
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Buffalo played in HSBC Arena for years. (Hongkong and Shanghai Banking Corporation)

Damn, beaten.

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12-16-2011, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saskganesh View Post
Given that corporate naming of rinks and stadiums often changes with relative frequency, do you think that naming rights are overvalued?

For example, everyone in Toronto knows where the Skydome is. For Rogers Stadium, not so much.
I work in a field where I've had to provide some POVs on this to various clients. Can obviously get a bit (sometimes 'very') subjective, but my personal opinion is that there can be some value in being the first to name a arena/stadium. Re-naming seems to have substantially less intrinsic value as the public tends to associate the place with the original name -- for example, your Skydome reference above. Again, this can all get very subjective though and rarely is it cut-and-dry.

Denver Broncos are an interesting case study. They originally played in Mile High Stadium. When they built their new digs, they sold the naming rights and it became Invesco Field. Even though it was a completely new building (typically a situation where you might be able to justify the naming rights), fans and even the Denver Post refused to call it anything but 'Mile High'. The organization tried to find a compromise by formally changing it to "Invesco Field at Mile High". Debatable as to whether that was effective, but what it did do was give other owners the idea to sell multiple naming rights (ex. Lexus Rink at the Bank Atlantic Center)!

Another case study is wherever the Flyers play these days -- without looking it up, did you know it was the Wells Fargo Center? Fifteen year old arena that has had four different names already (CoreStates Center, First Union Center, Wachovia Center, Wells Fargo Center). Granted, all were due to bank mergers, but still almost comical at this point.

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12-16-2011, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
The fact that the "C" stood for "Canada" is just a piece of trivia.
The only part of RBC that is/was Raleigh-based is/was its American branch. RBC is Canada's largest bank.

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12-16-2011, 03:13 PM
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Seems odd that PNC acquired a majority of BankAtlantic's branches throughout Florida but did not get a piece of BankAtlantic in their backyard (That portion of course going to BB&T).

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12-16-2011, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by WJG View Post
Yeah I always found it weird that Canadian banks would want the naming rights to NHL arenas in American cities (unless those banks have a strong presence in those cities).
There are only so many NHL rinks to sponsor in Canada.

Chances are, with hockey on TV every night of the week in any given city in Canada, Canadians are bound to see something live from the RBC Centre or TD Garden enough to warrant a Canadian company sponsoring an American rink.

Its also probably wayyyy cheaper to sponsor a hockey rink in North Carolina than in any Canadian NHL city.

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12-16-2011, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barneyg View Post
The only part of RBC that is/was Raleigh-based is/was its American branch. RBC is Canada's largest bank.
RBC is actually a Scottish trademark ie UK , not Canadian, Isn't THE TRUE definition of Canada, AS IT IS w/ all former UK colonies, they branded them Dominion, why else would the Royal family be on Canadian mint....

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12-16-2011, 03:48 PM
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RBC Bank was a huge fixture in NC. They built a huge skyscraper in Raleigh. Ditto TD, which has branches and affiliates all over the US.

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12-16-2011, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by CHRDANHUTCH View Post
RBC is actually a Scottish trademark ie UK , not Canadian, Isn't THE TRUE definition of Canada, AS IT IS w/ all former UK colonies, they branded them Dominion, why else would the Royal family be on Canadian mint....
RBC was founded in the Colony of Nova Scotia, but as with all colonial companies they were simply transferred over with federation and eventual independence. Incorporation in a colony wasn't incorporation in the UK.

Getting into Canadian history here would be incredibly OT, so I recommend we stay away from that.

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12-16-2011, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
RBC had a decent sized presence in the NC area, not sure why they sold off those assets.
Quote:
"In U.S. personal and commercial banking, you either go big or go home," Mr. Routledge said in an interview Friday with Bloomberg News. "Royal has said they're not going to make that big double-down bet; they're going to go elsewhere, and I think that's the right strategy."
http://www.postgazette.com/pg/11169/...#ixzz1gkH9lYuv

Quote:
Originally Posted by CHRDANHUTCH View Post
RBC is actually a Scottish trademark ie UK , not Canadian, Isn't THE TRUE definition of Canada, AS IT IS w/ all former UK colonies, they branded them Dominion, why else would the Royal family be on Canadian mint....
The bank was founded in Halifax, has its legal headquarters in Montreal, and operational headquarters in Toronto. Does it really matter where the trademark was originally registered?

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12-16-2011, 07:10 PM
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The US division of RBC was in Raleigh. It was/is one of the larger banks in the south.

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12-16-2011, 07:14 PM
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"In U.S. personal and commercial banking, you either go big or go home,"
Makes you wonder how long Comerica Park's name has..

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12-16-2011, 07:52 PM
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Comerica's not in terrible shape, but it could always be bought up. My understanding is that they're growing in Texas, though.

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12-17-2011, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Brodie View Post

There are two issues at play here... one is when naming rights deals are tied to the presence of local branches and the other is buying the name rights to established venues. The former is probably worth it because the value's still there for the company that acquires those branches... PNC has managed to increase their brand power immensely by keeping every sponsorship deal in every new market they enter, it helps build an instant connection and create a sense of continuity for customers.

In the other scenario, no it isn't worth it. It's why places like the Metrodome and Oakland Coliseum run through sponsors like they do, there's no value to be had. Unless you get in at the beginning with a deal that will last for the life of the arena, it's rarely going to be worth the trouble.
Interesting analysis. I have nothing to add or ask, but your take sits well with me.

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12-17-2011, 07:11 PM
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saskganesh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Law View Post
I work in a field where I've had to provide some POVs on this to various clients. Can obviously get a bit (sometimes 'very') subjective, but my personal opinion is that there can be some value in being the first to name a arena/stadium. Re-naming seems to have substantially less intrinsic value as the public tends to associate the place with the original name -- for example, your Skydome reference above. Again, this can all get very subjective though and rarely is it cut-and-dry.

Denver Broncos are an interesting case study. They originally played in Mile High Stadium. When they built their new digs, they sold the naming rights and it became Invesco Field. Even though it was a completely new building (typically a situation where you might be able to justify the naming rights), fans and even the Denver Post refused to call it anything but 'Mile High'. The organization tried to find a compromise by formally changing it to "Invesco Field at Mile High". Debatable as to whether that was effective, but what it did do was give other owners the idea to sell multiple naming rights (ex. Lexus Rink at the Bank Atlantic Center)!

Another case study is wherever the Flyers play these days -- without looking it up, did you know it was the Wells Fargo Center? Fifteen year old arena that has had four different names already (CoreStates Center, First Union Center, Wachovia Center, Wells Fargo Center). Granted, all were due to bank mergers, but still almost comical at this point.
Ha! Some good examples here. The corporate naming game does get very surreal.

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12-18-2011, 12:03 AM
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Makes sense, since RBC actually stood for Royal Bank of CANADA.

I laugh at the TD Garden too. Toronto Dominion Garden. Just too bad the Leafs can't win there...
The thing with TD Garden is that it wasn't specifically the TD Bank that sponsored the arena. Seems to me Banknorth had the rights to the arena and TD took over Banknorth, thus to reflect the new corporate name it was the TD Banknorth Garden. However, I think TD wanted to strengthen its brand and dropped the Banknorth name from their banking operations in Massachusetts. Leaving it the TD Garden.

I understand the need for corporate sponsorship. But I really hate when corporate restructuring causes the name to change several times. In a way, I wish arenas had the same name styling as NCAA Bowl games. It would be nice to see an arena called say TD Bank Presents Boston Garden. That way most people would drop the TD Bank name. I realize that is against the point of the naming rights. But I bet many fans haven't a clue what some of the companies even are.

Case in point, until about two years ago or so, I was unaware that the old LA Kings arena even had corporate sponsorship. I thought the Great Western Forum was simply the building's name. It just sounded like some grandeous name for a building, not The Forum sponsored by the Great Western Bank.

Conversely, I hate how the IOC forces Olympic hosts to alter the name of buildings if their corporate sponsors aren't Olympic sponsors. I remember during the 2002 Winter Olympics in Salt Lake City, Sports Illustrated commented on the amount of people looking for the Salt Lake Ice Center (I believe was the generic name) while standing under a sign that read Delta Center -->.

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