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Jacques Martin FIRED!

View Poll Results: What do you think about the Martin firing?
Right timing (Good riddance) 30 11.76%
Finally (Should have happened sooner) 152 59.61%
Surprised (they didn't wait until later in the season) 48 18.82%
Should have kept him as coach. 25 9.80%
Voters: 255. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
12-17-2011, 04:00 PM
  #876
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Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
Awful. Stupid mistake, panic move. Having no replacement only makes it worse.

Martin may or may not be boring, but he's a strong systems coach and that's what the team needs. Good luck trying to find a coach who can instill the solid 5-on-5 structure to the club that this roster requires. I see no one on the ranks who can credibly do the job. I doubt that Cunneyworth is either.

I'm pretty sure the Habs just sacked their season, and I'm not very hopeful for the rest, because not only will we in likelihood end up with a less effective coach, we've also got an organization who'll make irrational panic moves.

Fearless prediction: two months, max, before we see "fire whoever" threads for Martin's successor. When the Habs name that guy. Still can't believe that it's not.

Bad way to start the day.
That reaction actually makes it an even better day!

By the way, does this mean that we won't see Moen in a shootout?

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Old
12-17-2011, 04:00 PM
  #877
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Originally Posted by Magic33 View Post
Martin was not at fault. The guy who assembled this team is. Martin really has nothing to work with. Look at our top 5 go to guys. They don't compare to most teams in the league. People get on his case for shuffling lines, but thats hockey. Every coach ever has shuffled lines. You need to try new things, hoping for a spark. People hate on his defense, but we don't have the big guns to play all out offense. Gauthier/Gainey should be gone next ...
QFT.

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Old
12-17-2011, 04:00 PM
  #878
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Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
I don't think anyone will be a winner personally, I don't see how Cunneyworth can provide the same product as Martin could, not in the long run anyways.
.
This is just it. We really don't know what Cunneyworth will bring. I wanted a coaching change for a while, but I am not in the same 'Woohoo' mood as everyone else. No disrespect to Randy, but for all we know, we might have just gotten worse.

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Old
12-17-2011, 04:01 PM
  #879
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Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
The Habs better win tonight.
Oh they will, teams usually do after the coach is fired. Actually, I could see them going on a little bit of a run here.

I can just see it now. Cammy pots a couple goals and people will be saying "Cammy was repressed under Martin." Besides the fact that people were bashing him last game despite playing great and putting up 7 shots on net.

I just wish people would avoid criticizing coaches when they don't know JACK **** about running a hockey team.

But instead, they criticize him for largely completely inconsequential things such as PP time, timeouts, TOI, emotion behind the bench.

Like come on. If those are what you are going to use to judge the coach don't even freaking bother.

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Old
12-17-2011, 04:01 PM
  #880
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Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
Can't wait till next year when all the same people in this thread cheering are getting on the next coaches ass.
You know what BS, you are probably right. But if we had a team like the
Bruins we wouldn't be talking about it.

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Old
12-17-2011, 04:03 PM
  #881
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Never a fan of JM, but hate when a coach gets canned...I hope Cunnyworth can at least bring some emotion to the table, and get these guys going, and playing for one another!

You can't tell me that emotion doesn't stir the drink called the Bruins...

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Old
12-17-2011, 04:04 PM
  #882
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Originally Posted by jefferiah View Post
I think everyone gets it. But we really don't know how much influence he had before, nor how much Gainey has now. I am not even arguing that Gauthier is the best GM or a good GM, but since he has been at the helm we have definitely been more proactive. So that's a start. I think change is needed, I just don't think we need to blow everything up at once. I think it's tough to judge Gauthier at this point.
He's been more pro-active but that's not saying much. Gainey rarely made moves of any kind.

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Old
12-17-2011, 04:04 PM
  #883
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Players feed off of emotion, not a coach, who's sole job is to manage the bench and run the tactics of the team.

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Old
12-17-2011, 04:07 PM
  #884
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Originally Posted by AHMB Prez View Post
You know what BS, you are probably right. But if we had a team like the
Bruins we wouldn't be talking about it.
Boston fans wanted their coach and GM fired during the first round of last year. In fact they wanted their team blown up. They called Lucic and Horton bums. If you don't believe you can go look up the threads yourselves. There was actually LyricalLyricist and I telling Bruins fans to stop overreacting.

I'm fairly certain that no matter the team, coach, GM, people at some point will want them all fired and traded.

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Old
12-17-2011, 04:08 PM
  #885
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
He's been more pro-active but that's not saying much. Gainey rarely made moves of any kind.
He has done quite a bit in two years though. I am not saying it's great, just a little tough to judge at this point. Sure would have been nice if he had some experienced replacement for Martin though.

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Old
12-17-2011, 04:11 PM
  #886
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Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
Oh they will, teams usually do after the coach is fired. Actually, I could see them going on a little bit of a run here.
Hasn't exactly been the trend this year really. New Jersey, though, is eminently beatable.

As for going on a run -- barring returns from injuries, I don't really see it. A team without a second line nor a second D pairing going on the road for 6 games? I'll be impressed with Cunneyworth if they do go on a run and it's not on Price's back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
I can just see it now. Cammy pots a couple goals and people will be saying "Cammy was repressed under Martin." Besides the fact that people were bashing him last game despite playing great and putting up 7 shots on net.
Of course it will, it's all about the easy narrative. Nothing new there. Cammy doesn't even need to score. 4-5 shots on goal should do it. People expect him to play better, so so long as he's not awful, they will see it that way even if he's actually worse than last game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
I just wish people would avoid criticizing coaches when they don't know JACK **** about running a hockey team.
You and me both, my friend, you and me both. I think understanding the importance of matchups should be a prerequisite to commenting on a coach's work.

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Old
12-17-2011, 04:12 PM
  #887
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Originally Posted by Andy View Post
Boston fans wanted their coach and GM fired during the first round of last year. In fact they wanted their team blown up. They called Lucic and Horton bums. If you don't believe you can go look up the threads yourselves. There was actually LyricalLyricist and I telling Bruins fans to stop overreacting.

I'm fairly certain that no matter the team, coach, GM, people at some point will want them all fired and traded.
Haha so you consder maybe 50 so called fans from HF the word from the Bruins fans.

And even if so, they certainly shut the people up by having a true hockey team ddn't they.

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Old
12-17-2011, 04:12 PM
  #888
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
Oh they will, teams usually do after the coach is fired. Actually, I could see them going on a little bit of a run here.

I can just see it now. Cammy pots a couple goals and people will be saying "Cammy was repressed under Martin." Besides the fact that people were bashing him last game despite playing great and putting up 7 shots on net.

I just wish people would avoid criticizing coaches when they don't know JACK **** about running a hockey team.

But instead, they criticize him for largely completely inconsequential things such as PP time, timeouts, TOI, emotion behind the bench.

Like come on. If those are what you are going to use to judge the coach don't even freaking bother.
So people who never coached can't criticize the coach for running it. But you also can't critcize him on things you see. So people should do what? Not participate in a board I guess. 'Cause if you can't criticize the coach 'cause you haven't been place in his situation, pretty certain you can't do it for the GM, the scout or the player as well. 2 worlds of difference between playing Pee-Wee C and the bigs. So no criticisms allowed?

Same people who will say that Cammy was repressed if he scores tonight, are surely the same ones who said Gauthier made an incredible deal when Kaberle made a good powerplay in his first game. Kneejerk reactions happens whether it's positive and negative.

In the end, the guy was fired not by the fans. But by the other professionnal. The one that is seen by some as a great GM.

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Old
12-17-2011, 04:13 PM
  #889
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Originally Posted by LesHabsRock View Post
Being great as a player doesn't necessarily translate to coaching/GM success. Ask Wayne Gretzky. Heck, we already had an ex-hab player who won Stanley Cups, but failed as a head coach in Carbonneau. Enough is enough. Roy quit on his team as a player and wanted to be traded. That was a selfish move on his part. His temper is well noted especially in the infamous game with his son fighting and causing a brawl inspired by Roy himself. Totally irresponsible. Passionate, yes. Coaching temperament, no. I for one am getting tired of the Habs breaking in new coaches and going through their growing pains.
Being a great player also doesn't prevent you from being a good coach just because you gave 2 examples. Your completely over looking that Patrick Roy has had more success as a coach than 95% of professional coaches.

edit: by professional, I meant non NHL coaches.


Last edited by macavoy: 12-17-2011 at 04:33 PM.
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Old
12-17-2011, 04:19 PM
  #890
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
So people who never coached can't criticize the coach for running it. But you also can't critcize him on things you see. So people should do what? Not participate in a board I guess. 'Cause if you can't criticize the coach 'cause you haven't been place in his situation, pretty certain you can't do it for the GM, the scout or the player as well. 2 worlds of difference between playing Pee-Wee C and the bigs. So no criticisms allowed?

Same people who will say that Cammy was repressed if he scores tonight, are surely the same ones who said Gauthier made an incredible deal when Kaberle made a good powerplay in his first game. Kneejerk reactions happens whether it's positive and negative.

In the end, the guy was fired not by the fans. But by the other professionnal. The one that is seen by some as a great GM.
My problem is not with people criticizing a coach.

It is using childish reasons such as "emotion" or "entertaining hockey" and "use of timeouts" or "icetime of rookies."

Which, no hyperbole, is 80% of what they use.

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12-17-2011, 04:19 PM
  #891
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Originally Posted by macavoy View Post
Being a great player also doesn't prevent you from being a good coach just because you gave 2 examples. Your completely over looking that Patrick Roy has had more success as a coach than 95% of professional coaches.
Roy is probably brilliant as a coach, but I wonder if he would work out with NHL players. Roy is a strong personality, and the NHL is a league with adults, not kids.

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Old
12-17-2011, 04:23 PM
  #892
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Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
My problem is not with people criticizing a coach.

It is using childish reasons such as "emotion" or "entertaining hockey" and "use of timeouts" or "icetime of rookies."

Which, no hyperbole, is 80% of what they use.
Sorry BS, but these are not childish points. These are actually very valid points.
This is a hockey board so it is to be expected no ?

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12-17-2011, 04:23 PM
  #893
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Originally Posted by LesHabsRock View Post
Being great as a player doesn't necessarily translate to coaching/GM success. Ask Wayne Gretzky. Heck, we already had an ex-hab player who won Stanley Cups, but failed as a head coach in Carbonneau. Enough is enough. Roy quit on his team as a player and wanted to be traded. That was a selfish move on his part. His temper is well noted especially in the infamous game with his son fighting and causing a brawl inspired by Roy himself. Totally irresponsible. Passionate, yes. Coaching temperament, no. I for one am getting tired of the Habs breaking in new coaches and going through their growing pains.
Get over it man.

As for us breaking in new coaches, we got one of the most experienced coach and although I think he actually did a fairly good job, the end result has not been entirely different.

You talk about Gretzky and Carbo, but none of them have actually gone through the same route as Roy. Unlike them, Roy has actually coached and won in the juniors. He has done a very good job with the Rempart. You can dislike his ways, call him irresponsible, but the results are there and cannot be tossed aside.
My only concern with Roy coming here is how he would handle adults and men, as opposed to kids. I'm not concerned about his growing pains or if he'd be too passionate/vocal, or how he'd handle the media.

I have no problem with Roy being brought in, and we all know his name will probably the most talked about in the media until a new coach is finally named.

Personally, I think it is dumb to make a coaching change if we're to keep the same style. I believe that if you make a switch, then you need to go with something very different. So, Carlyle and guys of his mold, aren't really what I'd be looking at. Roy is pretty much the complete opposite.

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12-17-2011, 04:26 PM
  #894
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Originally Posted by macavoy View Post
Being a great player also doesn't prevent you from being a good coach just because you gave 2 examples. Your completely over looking that Patrick Roy has had more success as a coach than 95% of professional coaches.
And what I would say to that is that mindset has hurt the habs in the past more than it's helped them. Roy has never coached an NHL game. Being rookie NHL coach guinea pigs is not the course the fans want to see any longer. The Habs have danced that tune several times already and failed every time.

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12-17-2011, 04:28 PM
  #895
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Originally Posted by LesHabsRock View Post
And what I would say to that is that mindset has hurt the habs in the past more than it's helped them. Roy has never coached an NHL game. .
I think Roy knows what he is doing. He has been pretty successful. I just have some reservation about how volatile he can be. Might be refreshing, but could possibly be too much.

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12-17-2011, 04:30 PM
  #896
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Get over it man.

As for us breaking in new coaches, we got one of the most experienced coach and although I think he actually did a fairly good job, the end result has not been entirely different.

You talk about Gretzky and Carbo, but none of them have actually gone through the same route as Roy. Unlike them, Roy has actually coached and won in the juniors. He has done a very good job with the Rempart. You can dislike his ways, call him irresponsible, but the results are there and cannot be tossed aside.
My only concern with Roy coming here is how he would handle adults and men, as opposed to kids. I'm not concerned about his growing pains or if he'd be too passionate/vocal, or how he'd handle the media.

I have no problem with Roy being brought in, and we all know his name will probably the most talked about in the media until a new coach is finally named.

Personally, I think it is dumb to make a coaching change if we're to keep the same style. I believe that if you make a switch, then you need to go with something very different. So, Carlyle and guys of his mold, aren't really what I'd be looking at. Roy is pretty much the complete opposite.
I'll tell you what. When you "get over" your opinion of Roy being coach of the Habs I'll get over mine. Deal?

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12-17-2011, 04:31 PM
  #897
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I think Roy knows what he is doing. He has been pretty successful. I just have some reservation about how volatile he can be. Might be refreshing, but could possibly be too much.
That, to me, is not worth the risk. Rookie NHL coach guinea pig role is getting tiresome.

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12-17-2011, 04:32 PM
  #898
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I'll tell you what. When you "get over" your opinion of Roy being coach of the Habs I'll get over mine. Deal?


I don't care if Roy doesn't become coach, I'm not opposed to him possibly being one, but I don't care if it's someone else. So, way to miss the point.

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12-17-2011, 04:37 PM
  #899
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Originally Posted by LesHabsRock View Post
That, to me, is not worth the risk. Rookie NHL coach guinea pig role is getting tiresome.
That's the thing. I may be wrong, I just could see Roy being the type to have spats with his own players. With Martin we complain about how players are used, etc. And yeah I am sure that is frustrating for players. But Martin is no doubt one of the most amicable coaches in the league. Roy is a hard-headed fellow.


Last edited by andy28: 12-17-2011 at 04:43 PM.
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12-17-2011, 04:37 PM
  #900
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He's just believing the common narrative that the Habs have no players who are any good (except goaltenders). So anytime the Habs win, it's an achievement.
we are in agreement.

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