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Caps vs Avs. 9pm. Pepsi Center 12.17.2011

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Old
12-18-2011, 09:17 AM
  #426
Blades of steel
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Figure of speech, meaning shake up this roster somehow or rebuild someway in the off season. Sorry couldn't edit, posting on phone at work.

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12-18-2011, 09:24 AM
  #427
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Green will get back, the results will improve marginally, and Hunter will get credit for his system gelling. The Caps will make the playoffs and (some) people will be excited to see what will happen when Hunter has a whole off-season to undo the "damage" Bruce did.

I am Nostra-****ing-damas.

And we still won't be any closer to a cup unless there are rather major personnel changes.

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12-18-2011, 09:29 AM
  #428
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Originally Posted by Aveng7x View Post
I never once said that bruce could not coach
ok. that doesnt change the fact that there were many in the anti boudreau group that said that he was the reason they won playing wrong and failed in the playoffs.
many said that the block to the caps success was boudreau. boudreau is gone and i dont see much.

this is nothing to do with anaheim.

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12-18-2011, 09:37 AM
  #429
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
ok. that doesnt change the fact that there were many in the anti boudreau group that said that he was the reason they won playing wrong and failed in the playoffs.
many said that the block to the caps success was boudreau. boudreau is gone and i dont see much.

this is nothing to do with anaheim.
you're right this has nothing to do with anaheim, I understand the head chopping block thing with bruce. I was merely just pointing out that bruce has not changed anaheim since he's been there, course it's still a small sample size to know what effects a coach will have on a team. I still think the second line is too weak, Eakin is not working on the wing, mojo isn't a 2nd line center, not yet anyway. Until these positions are addressed in someway, I don't see much improvement in offensive numbers. and let's not even talk about the PP we all agree on that topic, it sucks.


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12-18-2011, 09:54 AM
  #430
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evidence over past two or three seasons has been that the ducks are a struggling bunch. didnt they miss the playoffs and barely qualify?

different situation entirely

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12-18-2011, 11:37 AM
  #431
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Bruce was not the problem at all buddy. The all out offence play wasn't working. Then he goes out and changes the team philosophy to defence and they still finish first. He did some incredible things as coach which means there is a problem with the roster. Not sure why they would hire a newb coach. I can't believe a rebuild is even being considered when the last three seasons this team has finished 2nd, 1st, and 1st. Pretty sad but a rebuild may be in order and dare I say it, will Ovechkin want out soon?
It was still Bruce's fault last year, buddy. You aren't going to win the cup if you struggle to score more than 2 goals a game. But for some reason, GMGM has hired 2 idiots who can't teach/show how to play a 2 way game/system. It's either all offense or all defense, which is just unacceptable.

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12-18-2011, 12:01 PM
  #432
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Originally Posted by mrwarden View Post
Green will get back, the results will improve marginally, and Hunter will get credit for his system gelling. The Caps will make the playoffs and (some) people will be excited to see what will happen when Hunter has a whole off-season to undo the "damage" Bruce did.

I am Nostra-****ing-damas.

And we still won't be any closer to a cup unless there are rather major personnel changes.
Who? Ovechkin? Green?

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12-18-2011, 12:21 PM
  #433
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The man to man dzone coverage is killing us:
1. It's horrible and opens up too much space for the opposition
2. This isn't lacrosse
3. Too much confusion and running around
4. It's the reason why the caps have no transition game and never have 2v1's or 3v2's. Since the forwards have to follow their guy around the zone, we rarely have all 3 ready to go on the attack. So instead, we have 1 or 2 guys against 3 of the opposition, hence the dumps. Our in zone offense is decent, but our transition attack needs to improve. It's virtually non existent and the man to man coverage, which is idiotic in itself, is a huge reason for it.

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12-18-2011, 01:06 PM
  #434
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Originally Posted by SwedishMeatballs1990 View Post
The man to man dzone coverage is killing us:
1. It's horrible and opens up too much space for the opposition
2. This isn't lacrosse
3. Too much confusion and running around
4. It's the reason why the caps have no transition game and never have 2v1's or 3v2's. Since the forwards have to follow their guy around the zone, we rarely have all 3 ready to go on the attack. So instead, we have 1 or 2 guys against 3 of the opposition, hence the dumps. Our in zone offense is decent, but our transition attack needs to improve. It's virtually non existent and the man to man coverage, which is idiotic in itself, is a huge reason for it.
Totally disagree. Under DH, even with terrible goaltending at times, this team has surrendered more than 2 goals just twice. When playing a zone, they routinely gave up 3 or more. At the same time, our offensive output has remained fairly constant -- not good, but not worse. DH has said they will concentrate primarily on defensive play and address the O second. I still see that happening, in spite of some disappointing losses so far.

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12-18-2011, 02:00 PM
  #435
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Originally Posted by californiacapsfan View Post
Totally disagree. Under DH, even with terrible goaltending at times, this team has surrendered more than 2 goals just twice. When playing a zone, they routinely gave up 3 or more. At the same time, our offensive output has remained fairly constant -- not good, but not worse. DH has said they will concentrate primarily on defensive play and address the O second. I still see that happening, in spite of some disappointing losses so far.
What is a better win, a 2-1 or 4-3? You appear to be of the opinion that a 2-1 win is always the better win regardless of the team and players.

The answer is the one that the team is most likely to be able to replicate do to the makeup of the roster. And with this roster that is not now nor will it ever be the 2-1...

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12-18-2011, 02:03 PM
  #436
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Ovy is on pace for 58 pts.

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12-18-2011, 02:03 PM
  #437
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
the difference between thursday night and saturday night was two freak or lucky or soft goals got past neuvirth. neither goal was really a result of a breakdown. two goals against should be good enough to win. yet, the only goals were a couple of leaky goals going the other way.

i am entertained by the posters that used to bash boudreau for anything and seem now to be looking for anything positive to say now that he is gone.
i was thinking there used to be some that said a monkey could coach this team to a first place regular season finish.
The ironies of all ironies...

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12-18-2011, 02:08 PM
  #438
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Our board is definitely mimicking our team lately.

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12-18-2011, 02:30 PM
  #439
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Originally Posted by californiacapsfan View Post
Totally disagree. Under DH, even with terrible goaltending at times, this team has surrendered more than 2 goals just twice. When playing a zone, they routinely gave up 3 or more. At the same time, our offensive output has remained fairly constant -- not good, but not worse. DH has said they will concentrate primarily on defensive play and address the O second. I still see that happening, in spite of some disappointing losses so far.
And unfortunately that goes completely opposite of the talent on this team. This is a team that's performed its best in a free flowing up tempo game. Going into a defensive shell is the same thing Bruce did and ultimately failed.

Not sure how different it's going to be here now under a different defensively oriented system.

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12-18-2011, 02:40 PM
  #440
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I'm not sure we're going to see a defensive system once Dale and his staff are done with installation. He didn't have a particularly defensive system in London.

I'm guessing/hoping that they're just focusing on the defensive installation first, and will move on to focus on the offensive installation once they're satisfied with how the team is executing the defensive aspects of the system.

I was one of the biggest BB supporters and most skeptical of the Hunter hiring, and even I think it's too early to judge Dale Hunter's Caps.

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12-18-2011, 02:42 PM
  #441
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
I'm not sure we're going to see a defensive system once Dale and his staff are done with installation. He didn't have a particularly defensive system in London.

I'm guessing/hoping that they're just focusing on the defensive installation first, and will move on to focus on the offensive installation once they're satisfied with how the team is executing the defensive system.

I was one of the biggest BB supporters and most skeptical of the Hunter hiring, and even I think it's too early to judge Dale Hunter's Caps.
This is what DH has expressly said he's doing. And totally agree, 7 or 9 or 10 games is not sufficient to judge his progress one way or the other.


Last edited by californiacapsfan: 12-18-2011 at 02:57 PM.
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12-18-2011, 02:47 PM
  #442
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I read hunts comment as the staff will focus their available time in season on implementing the def system to minimize time in their zone. Not going all conservative. It's still an agressive forechecking offensive when the read is there.

To me, their scoring ills are still poor execution and poor decision making. And no second line. They are doing a much better job getting puck out of their end using each other. The majority of time they're pinned in is when someone makes a poor clear. But when they attack through neutral zone and into offense.... Yeash!!!

And the odd man breaks are gone (Except when we turn puck over at attacking blue line). That is the goal of the read forecheck/trap 1-2-2. It relies on the 2nd and 3rd forward to read it the same and the d to read their reaction. Being on same page is going to take time...

All that said... No system will hide a poor pp, crappy line 2, and 1st line flubbing pucks/dumb turnovers.

Edit: or what nbtw said. Agreed100%

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12-18-2011, 02:48 PM
  #443
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCup2012 View Post
And unfortunately that goes completely opposite of the talent on this team. This is a team that's performed its best in a free flowing up tempo game. Going into a defensive shell is the same thing Bruce did and ultimately failed.

Not sure how different it's going to be here now under a different defensively oriented system.
But come playoff time where has it gotten the Caps? Obviously they may not make the playoffs but I'm still quite hopeful they will and be a better playoff team because of what Hunter is trying to do.

Listening to player comments it sounds like they are "buying" more into this D system moreso than that of Boudreau's. I see scoring chances for them and a lot less of the odd man rushes against. Ovechkin has had some nice chances and has more life.

If a few things (goaltending, PP, Semin) can get better I can see them turning these close losses into wins.

Without looking at numbers I'd have to say the PK has turned around quite a bit. The crappy games (Flyers and Florida) have been on the heels of crappy goaltending.

Okay, that's all of the optimism I have for today.

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12-18-2011, 02:49 PM
  #444
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I thought Hunter was an offensive coach?
In London when he had all the talent he didn't need to coach them to score goals.... once the talent left he resorted to defensive tendencies. Haven't seen enough games in Washington but he'll result to dump ins and retreating into a trap instead of forechecking... you'll be down a couple of goals and do that.. nothing like protecting the other teams lead.

His PP in London the last 3 years has been brutal... misuse of players all over the place.. goal scorers being used as playmakers and so on.

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12-18-2011, 02:56 PM
  #445
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What is a better win, a 2-1 or 4-3? You appear to be of the opinion that a 2-1 win is always the better win regardless of the team and players.

The answer is the one that the team is most likely to be able to replicate do to the makeup of the roster. And with this roster that is not now nor will it ever be the 2-1...
Neither. Because my point was that at this stage of the tranisition, the team is IN IT consistently, because they are allowing fewer goals, but their offense is performing basically the same as it was before BB's firing (three or more goals in just four of nine). In BB's final 9 games, the team had this same rate of scoring. It's not about which win is better, but rather which loss is worse.

Even with poor goaltending, they've been in mostly one goal games vs. given up a mountain of goals every game that were increasingly crushing them. When/As DH puts more focus on the O, some of the games that today are one-goal losses can more easily become one or more goal wins.

That's what I saw largely in the PEG. The team seemed nervous in the first, which I attribute at least somewhat to the goaltending the game prior, but with Neuvy playing well, they seemed more confident and they controlled the play.

I'm not discounting the lack of finish or the PP futility. These are major issues in need of fixing. But I see a change that reflects what Dale has said he's doing so I am willing to stay patient WRT the evolution of this team.

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12-18-2011, 03:33 PM
  #446
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Honestly how long does it take and just how much effort is involved in this elaborate "defensive system" where they can't focus on the offense too? That's what it seems like right now. Hope to lose a lower scoring game, offense be damned.

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12-18-2011, 03:35 PM
  #447
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Originally Posted by JL17 View Post
In London when he had all the talent he didn't need to coach them to score goals.... once the talent left he resorted to defensive tendencies. Haven't seen enough games in Washington but he'll result to dump ins and retreating into a trap instead of forechecking... you'll be down a couple of goals and do that.. nothing like protecting the other teams lead.

His PP in London the last 3 years has been brutal... misuse of players all over the place.. goal scorers being used as playmakers and so on.
This is good stuff...this is exactly what we're seeing right now.

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12-18-2011, 03:38 PM
  #448
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCup2012 View Post
Honestly how long does it take and just how much effort is involved in this elaborate "defensive system" where they can't focus on the offense too? That's what it seems like right now. Hope to lose a lower scoring game, offense be damned.
It depends. He could be confident he's got the horses to make it into the playoffs despite a few losses now, and he's using the defensive focus as a teaching tool. Who knows.

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12-18-2011, 03:39 PM
  #449
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But come playoff time where has it gotten the Caps? Obviously they may not make the playoffs but I'm still quite hopeful they will and be a better playoff team because of what Hunter is trying to do.

Listening to player comments it sounds like they are "buying" more into this D system moreso than that of Boudreau's. I see scoring chances for them and a lot less of the odd man rushes against. Ovechkin has had some nice chances and has more life.

If a few things (goaltending, PP, Semin) can get better I can see them turning these close losses into wins.

Without looking at numbers I'd have to say the PK has turned around quite a bit. The crappy games (Flyers and Florida) have been on the heels of crappy goaltending.

Okay, that's all of the optimism I have for today.
Their best playoff successes were playing a system that took advantage of their best players. The old BB system and the new DH system make those days seem like a pleasant dream from long ago.

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12-18-2011, 03:44 PM
  #450
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It really can't be that complicated. They look out of sync, out of focus, you name it. Most of these guys have been around a few years now. They lollygag and drift around and can't generate any consistent pressure. Goals are as frequent as they are in English soccer games.

I'd rather have the juggernaut Caps offense back, at least they were entertaining and they at least had a shot to outscore you, even in the playoffs. This bunch of stiffs is not only losing and ineffective, but boring. Hey if they were Devils boring and win a few Cups that's great, but they aren't.

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