IIHF World ChampionshipDiscuss International Tournaments like the WJC, Olympics, and World Cup, as they take place, or discuss past tournaments. performances.
I am very glad Nugent Hopkins is going to the Camp this year. I think him being cut from the 2011 WJC just because he didn't score was stupid. He is clearly one of the best players out there and better than many players that made the 2011 roster. I hope Subban gets the 1 goalie position I am not as confident in Jordan Binnington, or Laurent Brossoit. Those are the 2 players I want to see most at the WJC, Nugent/Hopkins and Subban. All the other players Canada named are all fantastic and whoever makes the final cut they will be a strong team, and will hopefully win gold this year.
What the **** happened to Siemens? If you asked who I though would be Canada's top pairing in the 2013 WJC 6 months ago I would have said Siemens-Hamilton. Then he got stripped of his captaincy etc. What went wrong?
I don't know where people are getting this idea that one coach decides which defensive parings go out and and the head coach decides the forwards. Where is this coming from? This isn't how any coaching system works in hockey. The head coach has absolute authority.
This makes me feel like you have never played hockey before. Typically the head coach will set up the lines and pick the starters, choose which PP/PK unit to go out, but when it comes to regular shifts the defensive coach (usually the assistant) picks which pairing goes out and often tries to match up his units against the other teams forward units. He is the one who determines how much even strength ice time the defensive pairings get. Only if its the end of the game or if a player needs benching does the head coach overstep the defensive coach
The third goalie should not play in this tournament. So I am a little surprised when crusing the lists on this page that Paterson isn't the third goalie. I know he is probably the fourth best, but he is the only 94' have no idea why TSN lists him on their official list as a December birthday. He is eligible beyond this year and was born in May of 94. Would think he gets the nod to practice and be a part of the experience to prepare for the following year. As a Wings fan I hope so, anything to get him away from Saginaw's awful D for a couple of weeks and hopefully get his confidence up would be nice.
Bobby M has RNH and Strome as the top 2 centers. It's hard to disagree with that no matter how good MacKinnon has been this year. Even though I'm not the biggest Strome fan, he was a points leader last year and is tearing up the OHL.
I'm not a fan of top 6/bottom 6 predefined roles that Canada seems to fixate on. Being predictable is never a good thing. I believe Canada should bring at least one very good checking/energy/shutdown line, but not two. Most teams won't have multiple elite lines. If anything, Canada should be pushing three elite scoring lines, since the depth is there. The best defense is a good offense. I'd rather have the other teams working their roster to battle us than vice versa. We can still bring guys capable of great two way hockey, but bringing pure checkers at the expense of offense baffles me. Most of the top scoring guys in Canada are often on their own team's PK units. I just don't see a need for exclusively defensive forwards for more than one line. To me, having two lines primarily focussed on checking, hitting and keeping the other team from scoring just means that half the game you are on the defense, which is a lousy strategy.
Canada has had a history though of being formulatic in the WJC. Line combos/roles is certainly one predictability. The other is shifting the game plan after establishing a lead. I've never embraced when Team Canada does this early in a game. If the way you are playing is successful, why change it up to protect the lead for multiple periods. I can understand being conservative towards the end of the game, but when you do it too early, it tends to backfire as you give away your momentum. It has always been an especially bad tactic vs Russian squads.
So my two Christmas wishes for TC are:
1. Please bring three scoring lines
2. Please don't sit back when you are capable of pushing forward
Scheifele-RNH-Rattie ----> Elite playmaking in RHN, scoring in Rattie, and all around play with Scheifele Huberdeau-Mackinnon-Drouin ----> Chemistry in SSS speaks for itself Hudon-Strome-Ritchie ----> Hudon would compliment these two IceDog teammates well Danault-Jenner-Wilson ----> Opposition's nightmare line to matchup against Monahan ----> Most versatile player left out of the top 12
Reilly-Hamilton ----> Dynamite offense with good defensive capability Harrington-Oullet ----> Shutdown pairing with proven chemistry Murphy-Reinhart ----> Spott's offensive favourite paired with a big, physical defensive guy Dumba ----> Not having the best year so far, but a team Canada favourite who would bring energy and physicality from the 7th spot
Subban ----> No brainer Binnington ----> Matter of preference, but he'll have to win it over Brossoit Brossoit ----> Could easily earn the backup spot with a strong camp
i think by general consensus that HF BOARDS has already picked the team.
Scout 97 MOVED a few bodies around, but generally this does it.I would like the idea that HC ABANDON the top 6 and bottom 6 defensive roles and provide a more offensive upside with the lockout.I am tired of hearing " if we only had our best offensive players". Well, here is the chance. Pick Drouin. Pick MacKinnon and lets go do it. No regrets.
I haven't watched a lot of these players, but this is my list
Jonathan Huberdeau "C" - Ryan Nugent-Hopkins - Mark Schiefele
Jonathan Drouin - Nathan Mackinnon - Ryan Strome
Charles Hudon - Boone Jenner "A" - Ty Rattie
Philip Danault - Daniel Catenacci - Tom Wilson
Mark McNeill
Dougie Hamilton "A" - Morgan Reilly
Scott Harrington - Mathew Dumba
Griffin Reinhart - Ryan Murphy
Ryan Sproul
Still no clearance for RNH to attend camp. Edmonton is not saying and could perhaps update the situation today...but it doesn't look good for RNH to play. But I'm always negative.
I know Pouliot will have an uphill battle to make the team, but I can't see his chances being any worse than Dumba, and he seems to be getting penciled in a fair bit in this thread.
I know Pouliot will have an uphill battle to make the team, but I can't see his chances being any worse than Dumba, and he seems to be getting penciled in a fair bit in this thread.
Because he has the international experience from the U-18's where he really dominated. That's a big boost.
Also, Pouliot's skillset is redundant with the other guys infront of him in terms offense. Dumba may not be a defensive force either but he can throw some big time hits that can create a lot of energy for your squad.
I think that's the main reasons why Dumba is probably a no brainer to make the team over a defenseman like Pouliot.
You just never know though. That's why they hold a tryout, to see who will rise.
Still no clearance for RNH to attend camp. Edmonton is not saying and could perhaps update the situation today...but it doesn't look good for RNH to play. But I'm always negative.
They have to get the tests back first. They said they would find out later in the week and that it was a precautionary measure. The answer is still up in the air right now.
Because he has the international experience from the U-18's where he really dominated. That's a big boost.
Also, Pouliot's skillset is redundant with the other guys infront of him in terms offense. Dumba may not be a defensive force either but he can throw some big time hits that can create a lot of energy for your squad.
I think that's the main reasons why Dumba is probably a no brainer to make the team over a defenseman like Pouliot.
You just never know though. That's why they hold a tryout, to see who will rise.
I'd put more stock in the U-18 argument than the "bit hit" argument from a Hockey Canada perspective, although I'm sure the big hit factor is more in line with HF's thinking.
At any rate, I wouldn't call it a no-brainer by any stretch, particularly when Dumba's splashy style can be a hindrance as often as it's a point in his favour.
Murphy will be pretty easily the worst defensively in the top 6, if he doesn't produce offense in games that matter I can easily see the D coach going with the 7th guy (Dumba or Sproul imo)
Sproul could be equal with Murphy offensively. If they need that PP specialist, and both are defensive liabilities, and have the same handness, I can't see any reason why Canada should use Murphy there before Sproul as the 7th defenceman. Sproul is as productive, his shot is a bigger threat and he has huge edge in size (6'4).
This makes me feel like you have never played hockey before. Typically the head coach will set up the lines and pick the starters, choose which PP/PK unit to go out, but when it comes to regular shifts the defensive coach (usually the assistant) picks which pairing goes out and often tries to match up his units against the other teams forward units. He is the one who determines how much even strength ice time the defensive pairings get. Only if its the end of the game or if a player needs benching does the head coach overstep the defensive coach
This really is completely wrong. First off, there's the empirical evidence, you watch any high level hockey game, who's deciding who goes out on the ice? The head coach. Most NHL games have sound proof glass so you can't hear the coach but the NHL hadcoach does indeed pick the defensive pairings.
It's no different in junior hockey. I've sat behind the Kitchener bench plenty of times. You know who's deciding Murphy gets 40 minutes a night? It's Steve Spott. Not the associate coaches.
They may handle them in practice, but in high level hockey, the head coach is the only one who decides who's going out on the ice. The assistant coaches may give the orders, but it's the coaches choice. If you see an assitant coach sending out the defense, they're probably also sending out the forwards, on the head coaches whim however.
Secondly, you can tell this is false merely through logic. It's very inefficient and very counterproductive to have two coaches working against eachother. They would send people out for very different reasons, the chemistry would not be there. The defense's job is not only to shutdown the other teams forwards I hope you realize. The head coach absolutely deterimes the ice time for defensemen. This isn't football where there's a defensive and offensive coordinator. The head coach trumps all, especially with line changes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomos2
If Murphy deserves the time, he'll get the time. If he ends up being a liability like he was in game 2 and the super series than he won't. BTW, I'm all for Murphy getting regular time if it helps team Canada, but in international games I put team success above individual success. I wasn't comfortable with Murphy's game in game 2 of the summer series; my friend was even screaming to keep Murphy off the ice. But in the next game we were excited everytime he was out there.
And before you use the ever so popular "that's just one game" statement, you should realize that this tournament is based off one game eliminations so all it takes is one bad game.
Then why is this even a discussion? Murphy was far from the only player who had a mistake (His first game wasn't that bad, but people tend to only remember one thing), but he was one of the few players who had a dominating game, when Murphy domianted in the next two games.
I haven't watched a lot of these players, but this is my list
Jonathan Huberdeau "C" - Ryan Nugent-Hopkins - Mark Schiefele
Jonathan Drouin - Nathan Mackinnon - Ryan Strome
Charles Hudon - Boone Jenner "A" - Ty Rattie
Philip Danault - Daniel Catenacci - Tom Wilson
Mark McNeill
Dougie Hamilton "A" - Morgan Reilly
Scott Harrington - Mathew Dumba
Griffin Reinhart - Ryan Murphy
Ryan Sproul
Malcolm Subba
Jordan Binnington
I don't hate it, but for me, Strome is 2C and Mac is 3C (unless Mac is lights out at camp).
Still no clearance for RNH to attend camp. Edmonton is not saying and could perhaps update the situation today...but it doesn't look good for RNH to play. But I'm always negative.
Tambo can't issue a statement because he glued his phone to the inside of his jacket pocket... AGAIN.
Don't notice him much, which is what you want from a defender.
Really? I mean when you see Rielly take the puck and go end to end Percy would look like a Jr.B defense man out there. Percy isn't suited for big ice. Hes a waste of an invite.
Still no clearance for RNH to attend camp. Edmonton is not saying and could perhaps update the situation today...but it doesn't look good for RNH to play. But I'm always negative.
Edmonton said four days ago they'd let him attend camp. Where are your information from?
This really is completely wrong. First off, there's the empirical evidence, you watch any high level hockey game, who's deciding who goes out on the ice? The head coach. Most NHL games have sound proof glass so you can't hear the coach but the NHL hadcoach does indeed pick the defensive pairings.
It's no different in junior hockey. I've sat behind the Kitchener bench plenty of times. You know who's deciding Murphy gets 40 minutes a night? It's Steve Spott. Not the associate coaches.
They may handle them in practice, but in high level hockey, the head coach is the only one who decides who's going out on the ice. The assistant coaches may give the orders, but it's the coaches choice. If you see an assitant coach sending out the defense, they're probably also sending out the forwards, on the head coaches whim however.
Secondly, you can tell this is false merely through logic. It's very inefficient and very counterproductive to have two coaches working against eachother. They would send people out for very different reasons, the chemistry would not be there. The defense's job is not only to shutdown the other teams forwards I hope you realize. The head coach absolutely deterimes the ice time for defensemen. This isn't football where there's a defensive and offensive coordinator. The head coach trumps all, especially with line changes.
Then why is this even a discussion? Murphy was far from the only player who had a mistake (His first game wasn't that bad, but people tend to only remember one thing), but he was one of the few players who had a dominating game, when Murphy domianted in the next two games.
It goes both ways. I've been in plenty of junior hockey coaches offices before warmup and nearly 100% of the time the Head Coach fills out his starting forwards and after reviewing the visitors starting line, turns to the assistant coach who runs the D to pick who starts on D. A head coach has that assistant for a reason, to run the D. And they trust them to do a good job.
However, then in game, the head coach obviously has authority on who to throw out there. Often times on special teams is where you'll see the head coach start to bark out which D he wants going out. But even then on PP or PK that's not always the case, depends on coaching styles. Either way, there are extended periods of time 5-on-5 where the head coach focuses just on forwards and let's his assistant run the D.
So nobody is wrong. There are many ways to run a bench. Of course head coach is the boss, but more often than not it's the assistant in charge of D who is picking which D is going out next.
Eight hours after Team Canada announced its world juniors training camp roster, officials were still unsure if their star player would attend.
Late into Monday evening, the Edmonton Oilers still hadn’t informed Scott Salmond whether Ryan Nugent-Hopkins had the green light following an MRI on his shoulder. Results are expected Tuesday.
Still no clearance for RNH to attend camp. Edmonton is not saying and could perhaps update the situation today...but it doesn't look good for RNH to play. But I'm always negative.
Honestly man, you said like 2 months ago that Hockey Canada wouldn't let him play, or that he wouldn't want to play. It seems to me like you're just spewing BS for the point of spewing BS.
Then why is this even a discussion? Murphy was far from the only player who had a mistake (His first game wasn't that bad, but people tend to only remember one thing), but he was one of the few players who had a dominating game, when Murphy domianted in the next two games.
I know your argument consists of blaming everyone else but Murphy, and yes others made mistakes, but his first game was bad. I have the game on my computer so I don't need to remember the one thing he did. It was a collection of bad reads and giveaways that made Murphy most notable. If Murphy is the great reliable defensive star you say he is, than why do you keep talking like Murphy is a non-factor whenever these defensive lapses happen. You'd think his defensive game would make a difference in that situation. Murphy's defence is not terrible, and I'm fine with him taking a regular shift if it works, but to say he is better defensively than the other locks is untrue.
And it's a good thing you're trying avoid talking about the super series, because nothing there helps your argument. You just seem to focus on whatever favours your argument and steer clear of the holes in Murphy's game as if being oblivious to them makes them go away.
