International TournamentsDiscuss International Tournaments like the WJC, Olympics, and World Cup, as they take place, or discuss past tournaments. performances.
I honestly do not see RNH coming to play in this tourney. It wouldn't benefit him at all, he is currently playing in AHL against men and some NHL players. If the NHL was not locked out he would not play in it so I do not see why he would now...
I hope he does but I just have a gut feeling that he won't, it would be worst competition than what he is currently facing and takes time away from his AHL team where he is playing with Eberle/Shultz and soon to be Hall...
I really doubt that he'll be there either. If it was in Canada, its possible that all the other reasons that you mentioned for not going could be overcome. But because it is being held far to the East of Moscow, I just can't see him going halfway around the World for more than 2 weeks to play in the tournament. Then, if he goes there, its only human nature to assign him full responsibility for bringing back a Gold Medal for Canada. Anything less would be a failure for him exclusively. Also, and I don't whether this would be a factor or not, but the year before last season, when he made his debut in the NHL, he was cut by Hockey Canada so that he couldn't participate in the WJC in Buffalo. Nothing has been said, but I do wonder whether being cut, when he was clearly good enough to play, left a bad taste in his mouth towards Hockey Canada.
As for the RNH question, I submit this quote to you from the man himself:
"If it comes up, I’m definitely going to talk about it more,” Nugent-Hopkins said Saturday. “Eberle had great success there and so did Taylor and they’re two good guys to talk about that sort of thing. If I do get that opportunity, it’s something I would take because it’s always an honour to play for Canada.”
I also can't imagine Eberle or Hall saying to him "don't go", considering how big the tournament was for each of them. Obviously anything can happen between now and then (including a labour settlement - of course that seems like the least likely scenario at the moment), but it looks like he is good to go.
I really doubt that he'll be there either. If it was in Canada, its possible that all the other reasons that you mentioned for not going could be overcome. But because it is being held far to the East of Moscow, I just can't see him going halfway around the World for more than 2 weeks to play in the tournament. Then, if he goes there, its only human nature to assign him full responsibility for bringing back a Gold Medal for Canada. Anything less would be a failure for him exclusively. Also, and I don't whether this would be a factor or not, but the year before last season, when he made his debut in the NHL, he was cut by Hockey Canada so that he couldn't participate in the WJC in Buffalo. Nothing has been said, but I do wonder whether being cut, when he was clearly good enough to play, left a bad taste in his mouth towards Hockey Canada.
That's not the way elite athletes think. I completely disagree with your statement. You are attaching to him a decision he'll make based on what he may perceive to be unwarranted or unjustified expectations and make a decision based on the weight of responsibility or from the fear of failure. If he goes and Canada doesn't win Gold, somehow I think he'll manage to go on with this career and Canada will get over it. If he doesn't go, it will be for other reasons.
As for the RNH question, I submit this quote to you from the man himself:
"If it comes up, I’m definitely going to talk about it more,” Nugent-Hopkins said Saturday. “Eberle had great success there and so did Taylor and they’re two good guys to talk about that sort of thing. If I do get that opportunity, it’s something I would take because it’s always an honour to play for Canada.”
I also can't imagine Eberle or Hall saying to him "don't go", considering how big the tournament was for each of them. Obviously anything can happen between now and then (including a labour settlement - of course that seems like the least likely scenario at the moment), but it looks like he is good to go.
I don't know whether he will accept an invitation or not (in one statement in your quote, he appears to say, "I'll do it," but in others he appears to him and haw and dance around a commitment). I will be extremely surprised if I see him there. You may think that's wishful thinking, but if he was so certain that he would jump at the chance, why would it be necessary to "talk about it more" with Eberle and and Taylor. For them, the situation was totally different because they were still playing in the juniors at the time of participation. In my mind, the biggest factor is having to go all the way to Ufa, which is closer to Siberia than it is to Moscow. Its 8 or 9 time zones away, and that reeks havoc on your body. He would have to be there almost 3 weeks, so it would be a supreme act of patriotism if he goes.
That's not the way elite athletes think. I completely disagree with your statement. You are attaching to him a decision he'll make based on what he may perceive to be unwarranted or unjustified expectations and make a decision based on the weight of responsibility or from the fear of failure. If he goes and Canada doesn't win Gold, somehow I think he'll manage to go on with this career and Canada will get over it. If he doesn't go, it will be for other reasons.
Of course his career will go on, but he is smart enough to know that he will be expected to be the difference between Gold or less, and if it should end up being less, his hockey reputation will be diminished. Call it the Yakupov factor. Everybody on the Russian side expected Yakupov to take the team on his shoulders and be the difference between winning or losing the SSS. Russian won, but with far less contribution from Yakupov than was expected. On the HF Boards, Yakupov has gotten nothing but criticism despite Russia's having won.
Take a look back at the posts on threads related to Canada and the 2013 WJC to get a measure of the expectations of fandom. How many assert that Canada will win based on the presence of Nugent-Hopkins? I think you'll find that to be a predominant theme. He is aware that if Canada loses, there will be more than a few who blame him for an unexpected result. I hope he does go, because I have never seen him play, but I'll be surprised if he does, "elite athlete" or not, because there are a number of good reasons not to.
Of course his career will go on, but he is smart enough to know that he will be expected to be the difference between Gold or less, and if it should end up being less, his hockey reputation will be diminished. Call it the Yakupov factor. Everybody on the Russian side expected Yakupov to take the team on his shoulders and be the difference between winning or losing the SSS. Russian won, but with far less contribution from Yakupov than was expected. On the HF Boards, Yakupov has gotten nothing but criticism despite Russia's having won.
Take a look back at the posts on threads related to Canada and the 2013 WJC to get a measure of the expectations of fandom. How many assert that Canada will win based on the presence of Nugent-Hopkins? I think you'll find that to be a predominant theme. He is aware that if Canada loses, there will be more than a few who blame him for an unexpected result. I hope he does go, because I have never seen him play, but I'll be surprised if he does, "elite athlete" or not, because there are a number of good reasons not to.
I don't think Canada will win or lose based on the presence/absence of RNH. I've told you countless times already, 1 player missing I can live with...7-8 elite players missing because their NHL teams didn't feel it necessary to release is quite another matter.
And the only posts I've noticed are from rabid Edmontonians who feel the World Junior Championship is a waste of time for RNH. Most fans, posters post as I do, if it's a full lockout team, then Canada has a strong shot at a gold medal, I'd say favorite to win...now you may not like that, you may not agree with that...I don't give a ****.. you know already my prediction for the WJHC in Ufa should the lockout drag on.. I'm not going to change it unless injuries sideline players or HC makes a few roster selections that are questionable. (which they have a tendency in doing). I'll be around making my predictions once the roster is set.
And there are no good reasons not to go, there are only reasons. We'll see in a few weeks. The list for camp gets released in two weeks, he has to attend camp, it's against HC policy to fly in players before teams depart.
And the distance from Moscow to Ufa is 1300 k approximately. The same as it is from Toronto to Thunder Bay. That's nothing. Canadians can drive that in their sleep. We are use to such large expanses.
Of course his career will go on, but he is smart enough to know that he will be expected to be the difference between Gold or less, and if it should end up being less, his hockey reputation will be diminished. Call it the Yakupov factor. Everybody on the Russian side expected Yakupov to take the team on his shoulders and be the difference between winning or losing the SSS. Russian won, but with far less contribution from Yakupov than was expected. On the HF Boards, Yakupov has gotten nothing but criticism despite Russia's having won.
Take a look back at the posts on threads related to Canada and the 2013 WJC to get a measure of the expectations of fandom. How many assert that Canada will win based on the presence of Nugent-Hopkins? I think you'll find that to be a predominant theme. He is aware that if Canada loses, there will be more than a few who blame him for an unexpected result. I hope he does go, because I have never seen him play, but I'll be surprised if he does, "elite athlete" or not, because there are a number of good reasons not to.
Canadian fans and media don't generally throw their players under the bus when they lose. There might be other reasons for RNH not going, but I doubt that being blamed would even cross his mind. I remember Bragin marvelling last year at how TSN concentrated on the positives for Canada after the loss to Russia -- specifically how well they played in the third -- rather than the negatives.
Canadian fans and media don't generally throw their players under the bus when they lose. There might be other reasons for RNH not going, but I doubt that being blamed would even cross his mind. I remember Bragin marvelling last year at how TSN concentrated on the positives for Canada after the loss to Russia -- specifically how well they played in the third -- rather than the negatives.
As I read my posts, they may emphasize the aspect of shrinking from high expectations more than is warranted. I hope he goes, because I think it would be fun to see. He would probably be the best Canadian player there, maybe the best player overall, but Canada will still have a number of players that they wouldn't ordinarily have if there was an NHL season. They would still have a great team even without him. One aspect that has been publicized lately is the interest generated in the AHL, particularly in Oklahoma City, with Nugent-Hopkins, Eberle, Hall and others are there. I think he would have to sacrifice at least a full month of his paycheck, in lieu of being given paid vacation, to participate in the tournament. Its a lot to ask of someone who is in a pro league to give up that much money. His love of country may transcend that, and I hope it does, but it is certainly a valid reason for not playing.
Your point about the paycheck is a valid one. Of course the usual rhetoric spouted by players when they are in the NHL is that their commitment to their team is too important for them to drop everything to go play in the WJC, but really I think it comes down to the significant loss of money. So my question is how much is he earning in the AHL at the moment? Certainly a fraction of what he would normally be getting, I would assume. Money aside, there is no good reason for him not to be there.
Your point about the paycheck is a valid one. Of course the usual rhetoric spouted by players when they are in the NHL is that their commitment to their team is too important for them to drop everything to go play in the WJC, but really I think it comes down to the significant loss of money. So my question is how much is he earning in the AHL at the moment? Certainly a fraction of what he would normally be getting, I would assume. Money aside, there is no good reason for him not to be there.
His paycheck is certainly a lot less than what he was making in the NHL, but it is probably still a fair amount of money by the standards of ordinary people. I don't know what the AHL's policy is for releasing players to play in international tournaments in mid-season, but there are a number of countries, including Russia, that have players in the AHL that are age-eligible for the WJC. It will be interesting to see how the AHL handles it if players are willing to forego their salaries to play.
I read somewhere that Eberle is making $65,000 in the AHL for the whole year. I would guess that the missed month of salary is inconsequential to Nugent-Hopkins, and actually if he performs well for Canada at the tournament the increased exposure may end up generating a much larger sum for him in the future.
I read somewhere that Eberle is making $65,000 in the AHL for the whole year. I would guess that the missed month of salary is inconsequential to Nugent-Hopkins, and actually if he performs well for Canada at the tournament the increased exposure may end up generating a much larger sum for him in the future.
If that is all he's making, then yeah, money would not be an issue. At the risk of sounding like I'm trying to mount objections, another possible issue that could conceivably interfere with his ability to play is the AHL club in Ok City. It may be that few people in that part of the country have ever heard of Nugent-Hopkins, but to the extent that the sudden availability of top-line NHL players puts "butts in the seats," so to speak, I wonder if the club might try to stand in the way of a potential loss of revenue. As I said earlier, that is predicated on the extent to which people in non-hockey areas are even aware of these guys.
I read somewhere that Eberle is making $65,000 in the AHL for the whole year. I would guess that the missed month of salary is inconsequential to Nugent-Hopkins, and actually if he performs well for Canada at the tournament the increased exposure may end up generating a much larger sum for him in the future.
I think that's about right. I remember reading a THN article a couple years back that mentioned Tyler Ennis (IIRC), made more money in a couple weeks in the NHL than the rest of the season in the AHL.
I read somewhere that Eberle is making $65,000 in the AHL for the whole year. I would guess that the missed month of salary is inconsequential to Nugent-Hopkins, and actually if he performs well for Canada at the tournament the increased exposure may end up generating a much larger sum for him in the future.
I am going to make this one last comment and then drop the matter altogether, as it has no doubt already been overtalked, and we can only wait to see what happens. I disagree with the premise that increased exposure and successful results will generate more money for him in the future, mainly because he is already considered an established NHL star, and he would be dropping down a level to play in the WJC. Sidney Crosby would not increase his income for playing great hockey at the WJC, assuming the age rule was overlooked, because he has already played great hockey at a higher level of the sport. On the other hand, I still think that his reputation with fans could be tarnished if he didn't produce much and Canada failed to win Gold, and that could cost him income derived from endorsements and promotions. I'm not talking about fans blaming him - but I do think that fans might tend to think, "boy, he didn't look all that much different from the other top players in that tournament." I could see him being hurt by an unexpected bad result, but not helped by the expected good result.
I am going to make this one last comment and then drop the matter altogether, as it has no doubt already been overtalked, and we can only wait to see what happens. I disagree with the premise that increased exposure and successful results will generate more money for him in the future, mainly because he is already considered an established NHL star, and he would be dropping down a level to play in the WJC. Sidney Crosby would not increase his income for playing great hockey at the WJC, assuming the age rule was overlooked, because he has already played great hockey at a higher level of the sport. On the other hand, I still think that his reputation with fans could be tarnished if he didn't produce much and Canada failed to win Gold, and that could cost him income derived from endorsements and promotions. I'm not talking about fans blaming him - but I do think that fans might tend to think, "boy, he didn't look all that much different from the other top players in that tournament." I could see him being hurt by an unexpected bad result, but not helped by the expected good result.
Sure, I agree that he has nothing to gain if he plays poorly. If he goes and plays poorly and nothing at all comes of his play, he loses ~ $10,000 in pay. If however Nugent-Hopkins goes over to Europe and has a dominant tournament, which I think is in play, his exposure would go up quite a bit. RNH is not Crosby. His is known throughout Canada, but I wouldn't say he is necessarily famous east of the prairies. Even in Ufa this tournament will expose him to millions of Canadians who may hardly ever see the Oilers. If he gets one commercial spot or an extra advertiser then he is certainly more than making up for his missed AHL income. I really doubt that this would even factor into his thinking though, since the AHL salary is so small and the potential income generated would be so difficult to isolate.
Taking a break from all of this RNH talk, there is some major breaking news regarding another team Canada standout. It seems Ryan Murray just suffered a serious shoulder injury, and possibly even a dislocation (Which I just suffered myself, coincidentally). Though the full extent of the injury isn't known, with us being this close to camp, this doesn't bode well.
Sure, I agree that he has nothing to gain if he plays poorly. If he goes and plays poorly and nothing at all comes of his play, he loses ~ $10,000 in pay. If however Nugent-Hopkins goes over to Europe and has a dominant tournament, which I think is in play, his exposure would go up quite a bit. RNH is not Crosby. His is known throughout Canada, but I wouldn't say he is necessarily famous east of the prairies. Even in Ufa this tournament will expose him to millions of Canadians who may hardly ever see the Oilers. If he gets one commercial spot or an extra advertiser then he is certainly more than making up for his missed AHL income. I really doubt that this would even factor into his thinking though, since the AHL salary is so small and the potential income generated would be so difficult to isolate.
Well, at this point, I am convinced that there are no major factors holding him back. I hope he does play, because it will elevate the level of play at the tournament and require everybody to bring their best game to bear.
Taking a break from all of this RNH talk, there is some major breaking news regarding another team Canada standout. It seems Ryan Murray just suffered a serious shoulder injury, and possibly even a dislocation (Which I just suffered myself, coincidentally). Though the full extent of the injury isn't known, with us being this close to camp, this doesn't bode well.
Doesn't sound good. Apparently the camp starts on Dec. 10, and Canada will give him every chance to make the team but it's hard to see him being anywhere near full effectiveness by Boxing Day. This is probably the most deep defence since 2007 though, so they should be equipped to handle one injury to any player. Hopefully he recovers properly regardless of the tournament.
That's a major loss for Canada regardless of how deep the blueline is.
i agree - he has both skill and experience on the team. bad loss
wjc continues to make me nervous...even if rnh, huberdeau, mck, strome, etc. are on the team. maybe it's a media thing...and over confidence. there's an attitude that if we have a full complement of our best players it's "in the bag"...and i just don't love that thinking.
i agree - he has both skill and experience on the team. bad loss
wjc continues to make me nervous...even if rnh, huberdeau, mck, strome, etc. are on the team. maybe it's a media thing...and over confidence. there's an attitude that if we have a full complement of our best players it's "in the bag"...and i just don't love that thinking.
If you get that from any of my posts, then you are misreading what I write )) I certainly don't think it's just a matter of throwing on the skates and slipping into the maple leaf and it's all going to be easy. A full lockout makes them the favorite, but certainly not a given. The injury to Murray is the 1st blow, unfortunate for him for sure. but I was never a big Murray supporter anyway. Never really saw nor do I see what others see in him to justify the hype. but that is just me. I'm still livid at HC for including him in the WC team.
i agree - he has both skill and experience on the team. bad loss
wjc continues to make me nervous...even if rnh, huberdeau, mck, strome, etc. are on the team. maybe it's a media thing...and over confidence. there's an attitude that if we have a full complement of our best players it's "in the bag"...and i just don't love that thinking.
I'm not really sure how any Canadian players could realistically think its in the bag considering the past two tournaments. You'd think that should be motivation enough to stay focused.
