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Old
12-19-2011, 08:44 AM
  #101
WhoIsJimBob
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Originally Posted by static80 View Post
I do not believe there will be enough time in the season for your theory given the injuries already.
The season will most likely be in jeopardy by that time and if it's one thing I do know, Pegula is fully aware you have to be invited to the dance (playoffs) if you want to get a full evaluation of your dance partners.

A move will be made for sure. Probably a roster move, they'll call it a shake up and then move on from there.
The question is, does it happen after the freeze or at the deadline. The deadline may be too late and I'm sure they are aware of this.
The trick is that they don't have the cap flexibility to take on salary given their offseason spending spree.

And that may severely limit their options. Plus, the Sabres are desperate right now and Regier doesn't exactly like to "lose" a deal just to shake things up.

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12-19-2011, 08:52 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Jim Bob View Post
The trick is that they don't have the cap flexibility to take on salary given their offseason spending spree.

And that may severely limit their options. Plus, the Sabres are desperate right now and Regier doesn't exactly like to "lose" a deal just to shake things up.
Moving Boyes for a pick would free up a fair bit of space. They need him back ASAP so they can showcase him and move him not long after the Holiday Roster Freeze is up.

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12-19-2011, 09:12 AM
  #103
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Moving Boyes for a pick would free up a fair bit of space. They need him back ASAP so they can showcase him and move him not long after the Holiday Roster Freeze is up.
But how many teams have the cap or budget space for that right now?

There are more than a few teams that are either pushing the cap or are already at their internal budget.

And given how quickly guys are getting re-injured, will Boyes be able to stay healthy enough to get dealt?

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12-19-2011, 09:24 AM
  #104
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Crazy people always think they are the sane ones even after they are in a padded room with their special white coat on.
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12-19-2011, 09:32 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Jim Bob View Post
The trick is that they don't have the cap flexibility to take on salary given their offseason spending spree.

And that may severely limit their options. Plus, the Sabres are desperate right now and Regier doesn't exactly like to "lose" a deal just to shake things up.
I agree with all of this, but there are trade partners out there willing to take on salary in a deal.

You are correct about Regier however.
That is what his problem is I firmly believe. You have to give to get and he seems so unwilling to give that the getting suffers heavily.

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12-19-2011, 09:33 AM
  #106
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Moving Boyes for a pick would free up a fair bit of space. They need him back ASAP so they can showcase him and move him not long after the Holiday Roster Freeze is up.
I'd prefer Boyes stay over Stafford. Atleast the guy has shown in the past he can pot 35+ goals for more than one season.

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12-19-2011, 09:36 AM
  #107
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I'd prefer Boyes stay over Stafford. Atleast the guy has shown in the past he can pot 35+ goals for more than one season.
referring to scoring totals from over 3+ years ago... not smart.

(for the record, Boyes broke 35 goals ONCE... in 07/08)

it might be best to refer to what he's done lately... which is score 14 and 17 total goals in the last 2 seasons.

Boyes is worthless
Stafford is frustrating

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12-19-2011, 10:03 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
referring to scoring totals from over 3+ years ago... not smart.

(for the record, Boyes broke 35 goals ONCE... in 07/08)

it might be best to refer to what he's done lately... which is score 14 and 17 total goals in the last 2 seasons.

Boyes is worthless
Stafford is frustrating
Not at all.
When placed with a true top center, Brad Boyes has proven time and again he is a finisher.

I remember his season with Boston, it wasn't until he was placed on Patrice Bergeron's right wing.
"As the NHL resumed the following season, Bergeron led the Bruins with a career-high 31 goals and 73 points. He played the majority of the season with linemates Brad Boyes and newcomer Marco Sturm"
When Bergeron went down in the first week of the following season, Boyes numbers suffered heavily.

He was then sent off to St. Louis in a trade (very foolish of Boston given Bergeron's and Boyes' chemistry) where he flourished yet again with a true gamer in Paul Kariya on his left wing and they were later joined by David Backes as their center.

When Kariya left, Boyes production dropped.

This is proof that if you stick Boyes with talent, he is a finisher. He doesn't muff the punt so to speak, when given the opportunity to be fed by an impact player.

Great fit for Vanek's right wing in my opinion. Just need that center.

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12-19-2011, 10:05 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by static80 View Post
Not at all.
When placed with a true top center, Brad Boyes has proven time and again he is a finisher.


I remember his season with Boston, it wasn't until he was placed on Patrice Bergeron's right wing.
"As the NHL resumed the following season, Bergeron led the Bruins with a career-high 31 goals and 73 points. He played the majority of the season with linemates Brad Boyes and newcomer Marco Sturm"
When Bergeron went down in the first week of the following season, Boyes numbers suffered heavily.

He was then sent off to St. Louis in a trade (very foolish of Boston given Bergeron's and Boyes' chemistry) where he flourished yet again with a true gamer in Paul Kariya on his left wing and they were later joined by David Backes as their center.

When Kariya left, Boyes production dropped.

This is proof that if you stick Boyes with talent, he is a finisher. He doesn't muff the punt so to speak, when given the opportunity to be fed by an impact player.

Great fit for Vanek's right wing in my opinion. Just need that center.
no...

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12-19-2011, 10:08 AM
  #110
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I'd prefer Boyes stay over Stafford. Atleast the guy has shown in the past he can pot 35+ goals for more than one season.
I'd prefer to move both guys.

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12-19-2011, 10:17 AM
  #111
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no...
Ummm........yes, you can't change facts, as much as you'd wish to. And the facts say yes.

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12-19-2011, 10:20 AM
  #112
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Ummm........yes, you can't change facts, as much as you'd wish to. And the facts say yes.
09-10 - 14 goals 82 games
10-11 - 17 goals 83 games
11-12 - 2 goals 21 games (*7 goal 82 game pace)

facts are notoriously straight forward

opinion on the other hand (like the quality of linemates)... don't actually constitute anything more then that.

Name 1 player that you think can do something (production wise), that they haven't done in 3 seasons (not because of injury).

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12-19-2011, 10:30 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
09-10 - 14 goals 82 games
10-11 - 17 goals 83 games
11-12 - 2 goals 21 games (*7 goal 82 game pace)

facts are notoriously straight forward

opinion on the other hand (like the quality of linemates)... don't actually constitute anything more then that.

Name 1 player that you think can do something (production wise), that they haven't done in 3 seasons (not because of injury).
All three seasons you just listed were in point of fact, the 3 seasons he was not working with an impact player.
So your point is invalid.
And your correct, facts are notoriously straight forward, you can't change the parameters of my original statement to fit the needs of your "opinion".

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12-19-2011, 10:34 AM
  #114
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Pretty sure Stafford would put up 30+ playing with Kariya or Bergeron, so I'm not quite sure how that makes Boyes a better option to keep.

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12-19-2011, 10:36 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by static80 View Post
All three seasons you just listed were in point of fact, the 3 seasons he was not working with an impact player.
So your point is invalid.
The run and gun years of 05-08 are over, the league has adjusted, teams have adjusted defensively.... Boyes played with the same guys in the 2 years he put up big numbers in st louis and the years he sucks with 14 goals/42 pt type seasons.

The game changed... not the talent Boyes had to play with.

it's honestly a really silly attempt to protect Boyes from the criticism he deserves.

He's atrocious at ES.... and the game has changed enough to make him pretty useless/irrelevant.

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12-19-2011, 10:37 AM
  #116
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Boyes played with the same players in st louis when he scored 42 goals and 14 goals... the change... was not the players, it was the game.

Boyes sucks in today's game...

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12-19-2011, 10:43 AM
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myllz View Post
Pretty sure Stafford would put up 30+ playing with Kariya or Bergeron, so I'm not quite sure how that makes Boyes a better option to keep.
Only if it were a contract year for Stafford.


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12-19-2011, 10:52 AM
  #118
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Pretty sure Stafford would put up 30+ playing with Kariya or Bergeron, so I'm not quite sure how that makes Boyes a better option to keep.
Now we are talking, and you are correct in my opinion. Stafford with an impact player may indeed flourish.
It's just that Boyes has the data already backing him, I'm still out on Stafford given the lack of presence of that impact player to put him with.

I will say I'd rather keep Boyes, as my original point stated, because he is a "proven" finisher when placed in that position. I wouldn't take the risk with an unknown quantity such as Stafford in this position.

I also am of the opinion that this line of thinking actually benefits the organization.
Stafford may be worth more to teams than Boyes in a trade if they are willing to take the risk due to his length of contract and potential upside (atleast as they may view it, or not :>)

I would move Stafford and let Boyes play out the year and see what type of player can be brought in to compliment his type of "finishing" play.

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12-19-2011, 10:56 AM
  #119
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Boyes played with the same players in st louis when he scored 42 goals and 14 goals... the change... was not the players, it was the game.

Boyes sucks in today's game...
Boyes did not play with the same players as you indicate here, he was juggled between the 2nd and 3rd line wing after Kariya had that horrible hip injury, it kept him out for basically the entire season.

Your running out of subject matter on this, may I suggest you stop.

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12-19-2011, 11:02 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by static80 View Post
Boyes did not play with the same players as you indicate here, he was juggled between the 2nd and 3rd line wing after Kariya had that horrible hip injury, it kept him out for basically the entire season.

Your running out of subject matter on this, may I suggest you stop.
You may suggest anything you like.

I suggest you go to the Blues Board and get your facts straight.

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12-19-2011, 11:13 AM
  #121
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You may suggest anything you like.

I suggest you go to the Blues Board and get your facts straight.
Ah, ok then, note to self, refuses to acknowledge the very public information of that horrible injury to Kariya, thereby putting himself in some type of fantasy land where he clearly believes that Brad Boyes played with Kariya all 3 seasons and also fails to acknowledge Kariya's departure from the club, making the 3 1/2 weeks Kariya and Boyes played together in the 08/09 season the last time they effectively played together.

There we go, so noted.......

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12-19-2011, 11:22 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by static80 View Post
Now we are talking, and you are correct in my opinion. Stafford with an impact player may indeed flourish.
It's just that Boyes has the data already backing him, I'm still out on Stafford given the lack of presence of that impact player to put him with.

I will say I'd rather keep Boyes, as my original point stated, because he is a "proven" finisher when placed in that position. I wouldn't take the risk with an unknown quantity such as Stafford in this position.

I also am of the opinion that this line of thinking actually benefits the organization.
Stafford may be worth more to teams than Boyes in a trade if they are willing to take the risk due to his length of contract and potential upside (atleast as they may view it, or not :>)

I would move Stafford and let Boyes play out the year and see what type of player can be brought in to compliment his type of "finishing" play.
That's probably the main reason to trade him over Boyes. If the trade return was similar, I'd rather move Boyes. Boyes may be a little more proven than Stafford is, but he hasn't done much of anything lately. Stafford's at least been heating up a little bit (5 points in the last 6 games), and I'd like to give him at least the rest of the year before deciding which Drew is the real Drew.

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12-19-2011, 11:24 AM
  #123
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That's probably the main reason to trade him over Boyes. If the trade return was similar, I'd rather move Boyes. Boyes may be a little more proven than Stafford is, but he hasn't done much of anything lately. Stafford's at least been heating up a little bit (5 points in the last 6 games), and I'd like to give him at least the rest of the year before deciding which Drew is the real Drew.
Fair enough Myllz, and besides, I doubt we have a choice

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12-19-2011, 11:29 AM
  #124
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...please don't talk about him heating up...we talked about ennis and Leino heating up and now they are hurt ;_;

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12-19-2011, 11:31 AM
  #125
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Ah, ok then, note to self, refuses to acknowledge the very public information of that horrible injury to Kariya, thereby putting himself in some type of fantasy land where he clearly believes that Brad Boyes played with Kariya all 3 seasons and also fails to acknowledge Kariya's departure from the club, making the 3 1/2 weeks Kariya and Boyes played together in the 08/09 season the last time they effectively played together.

There we go, so noted.......
i dont believe Boyes played with Kariya all 3 seasons.

most common linemates by %
07-08 : Kariya, Tkachuk, MacDonald - 43 goals / 65 pts
08-09 : Backes, Tkachuk McDonald - 33 goals / 72 pts
09-10 : McDonald, Tkachuk, Steen -14 goals / 42 pts
10-11 : Backes, McDonald, Steen - 17 goals / 55 pts

You REALLY think Boyes goal scoring drop off is related to not playing with Paul Kariya?

Outside of the 42 and 33 goal seasons, his career shooting % is 7.9%... in those 2 seasons he shot 20.8% and 15%.

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