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Ron Wilson needs to be fired! 4 years of Failure.

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Old
12-21-2011, 02:34 PM
  #301
Erza Scarlet
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The only reason why I believe that Florida might fall is their lack of scoring depth after the 1st line and their scoring D man.

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12-21-2011, 02:34 PM
  #302
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dynrehab View Post
Wilson had a much worse team then the current Sens in 2008-2009, and they also overachieved.
The 2008-09 Leafs team finished with 81 points.

Then over the course of the 2009-10 season Burke brought in reinforcements in Kessel ($5.6 mil), Komisarek ($4.5 mil), Beauchemin ($3.9), Bozak ($3.75), Giguere ($6.0), Phaneuf ($6.5 mil), Gustavsson ($2.1) etc etc and Wilson proceeded to take the Leafs to a 74 point season..

That was good for 29th and 2nd last overall in the standings, 29th overall in goals against & 30th in both PP% and PK%

Words can not describe how outstanding coaching that was.!!!

2 years later Leafs have given up 108 goals against after 33 games = 268 goals against / season pace and the 2009-10 team gave up 267 against, and the PK% remains 30th and last.


Last edited by Mess: 12-21-2011 at 02:40 PM.
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12-21-2011, 02:42 PM
  #303
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
The 2008-09 Leafs team finished with 81 points.

Then over the course of the 2009-10 season Burke brought in reinforcements in Kessel ($5.6 mil), Komisarek ($4.5 mil), Beauchemin ($3.9), Bozak ($3.75), Giguere ($6.0), Phaneuf ($6.5 mil), Gustavsson ($2.1) etc etc and Wilson proceeded to take the Leafs to a 74 point season..

That was good for 29th and 2nd last overall in the standings, 29th overall in goals against & 30th in both PP% and PK%

Words can not describe how outstanding coaching that was.!!!

2 years later Leafs have given up 108 goals against after 33 games = 268 goals against / season pace and the 2009-10 team gave up 267 against, and the PK% remains 30th and last.
You and some of your friends seem to be the only ones happy about how that season went. Why you'd be happy, I'm not sure. It just seems like you enjoy bringing it up over and over and over again.

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12-21-2011, 03:27 PM
  #304
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
The 2008-09 Leafs team finished with 81 points.

Then over the course of the 2009-10 season Burke brought in reinforcements in Kessel ($5.6 mil), Komisarek ($4.5 mil), Beauchemin ($3.9), Bozak ($3.75), Giguere ($6.0), Phaneuf ($6.5 mil), Gustavsson ($2.1) etc etc and Wilson proceeded to take the Leafs to a 74 point season..

That was good for 29th and 2nd last overall in the standings, 29th overall in goals against & 30th in both PP% and PK%

Words can not describe how outstanding coaching that was.!!!

2 years later Leafs have given up 108 goals against after 33 games = 268 goals against / season pace and the 2009-10 team gave up 267 against, and the PK% remains 30th and last.
So what you are trying to say is that...The Ronnie Wilson system of hockey is not working or improving the team no matter who they put on the ice.

I think anyone with half a brain would have to agree.

Add: Blind faith is a terrible thing.

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12-21-2011, 03:31 PM
  #305
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They say the team takes on the personality of their coach and this is obviously true. I believe this is Ron's personality to be offensive only, no grit, no determination and no defence. He does develop younger players alright skill wise but the style does not win consistently. He was good in the olympics because he had a loaded team and the best goalie in the world.
Bring in Carlyle NOW a tough, truculent, fiery, competitive d man when he played and his teams bring it every night. It's our chance to get him now before he's gone. I'm sure Burke is talking to him.
No more of this 4th liner going by our captain and scoring an easy game winner crap. Dion couldn't defend his way out of a paper bag. Carlyle would have torn his head off, that play was so embarrassing the other night.

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12-21-2011, 03:32 PM
  #306
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I supported Ron Wilson up until Carlyle was fired.

To me Carlyle represents a clear alternative to Ron Wilson, and pedigree upgrade.

Burke has said repeatedly you can't just unload a coach because a team plays poorly.

To me, the players are not effectively applying the system. It's not poor coaching decisions that are costing us games.

Boudreau lost his job not because the systems weren't being applied but because given the option between playing Ovechkin or anyone else he seemed to be playing anyone else, which is a POOR coaching decision.

I don't see Ron Wilson making very many poor coaching decisions.

I read a lot of really tedious crap on these boards about assumptions, postulations and hypotheses. No one seems to be able to provide concrete reasons why the Leafs need a coaching change.

For me, the only reason I would support a LATERAL shift to a coach like Carlyle is that it shuts up the tedious banter from the boards/media/fans who think they've got it so figured out.

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12-21-2011, 03:34 PM
  #307
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theremedial View Post
So what you are trying to say is that...The Ronnie Wilson system of hockey is not working or improving the team no matter who they put on the ice.

I think anyone with half a brain would have to agree.

Add: Blind faith is a terrible thing.
I fully agree that it takes half a brain to agree with it.

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12-21-2011, 03:35 PM
  #308
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Originally Posted by indigobuffalo View Post
I supported Ron Wilson up until Carlyle was fired.

To me Carlyle represents a clear alternative to Ron Wilson, and pedigree upgrade.

Burke has said repeatedly you can't just unload a coach because a team plays poorly.

To me, the players are not effectively applying the system. It's not poor coaching decisions that are costing us games.

Boudreau lost his job not because the systems weren't being applied but because given the option between playing Ovechkin or anyone else he seemed to be playing anyone else, which is a POOR coaching decision.

I don't see Ron Wilson making very many poor coaching decisions.

I read a lot of really tedious crap on these boards about assumptions, postulations and hypotheses. No one seems to be able to provide concrete reasons why the Leafs need a coaching change.

For me, the only reason I would support a LATERAL shift to a coach like Carlyle is that it shuts up the tedious banter from the boards/media/fans who think they've got it so figured out.
One could argue with you that the System does not apply to the skill set of the players on the ice. Trying to make people play a style they can not handle could, can not succeed.

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12-21-2011, 03:38 PM
  #309
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Originally Posted by indigobuffalo View Post
For me, the only reason I would support a LATERAL shift to a coach like Carlyle is that it shuts up the tedious banter from the boards/media/fans who think they've got it so figured out.
For how long? A week?

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12-21-2011, 03:44 PM
  #310
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Originally Posted by coronet66 View Post
They say the team takes on the personality of their coach and this is obviously true. I believe this is Ron's personality to be offensive only, no grit, no determination and no defence. He does develop younger players alright skill wise but the style does not win consistently. He was good in the olympics because he had a loaded team and the best goalie in the world.
Bring in Carlyle NOW a tough, truculent, fiery, competitive d man when he played and his teams bring it every night. It's our chance to get him now before he's gone. I'm sure Burke is talking to him.
No more of this 4th liner going by our captain and scoring an easy game winner crap. Dion couldn't defend his way out of a paper bag. Carlyle would have torn his head off, that play was so embarrassing the other night.
USA was not a loaded team compared to Canada, Sweden and Russia.

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12-21-2011, 03:50 PM
  #311
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Originally Posted by Beezle View Post
USA was not a loaded team compared to Canada, Sweden and Russia.
United States (USA) 2010 Silver Medal Team

David Backes
Dustin Brown
Ryan Callahan
Chris Drury
Tim Gleason
Erik Johnson
Jack Johnson
Patrick Kane
Ryan Kesler
Phil Kessel
Jamie Langenbrunner
Ryan Malone
Ryan Miller
Brooks Orpik
Zach Parise
Joe Pavelski
Jonathan Quick
Brian Rafalski
Bobby Ryan
Paul Stastny
Ryan Suter
Tim Thomas
Ryan Whitney

Looks pretty good to me...

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12-21-2011, 03:53 PM
  #312
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theremedial View Post
United States (USA) 2010 Silver Medal Team

David Backes
Dustin Brown
Ryan Callahan
Chris Drury
Tim Gleason
Erik Johnson
Jack Johnson
Patrick Kane
Ryan Kesler
Phil Kessel
Jamie Langenbrunner
Ryan Malone
Ryan Miller
Brooks Orpik
Zach Parise
Joe Pavelski
Jonathan Quick
Brian Rafalski
Bobby Ryan
Paul Stastny
Ryan Suter
Tim Thomas
Ryan Whitney

Looks pretty good to me...
Should've paid more attention to the predictions then, that USA team overachieved they were never supposed to compete with Team Canada when they came close to beating them.

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12-21-2011, 03:53 PM
  #313
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I think Carlyle is a clear upgrade not lateral at all. Cup winner and tough to play against. Exactly why he was Burkes coach and they were very successful. Wilson has had a different team every year and they always play the same, soft and poor defence. Last game undiciplined penalties cost them, they should have beaten LA, but the players are allowed to take stupid penalties. That just doesn't happen in Boston or Detroit the top coached teams in the league.

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12-21-2011, 03:54 PM
  #314
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theremedial View Post
United States (USA) 2010 Silver Medal Team

David Backes
Dustin Brown
Ryan Callahan
Chris Drury
Tim Gleason
Erik Johnson
Jack Johnson
Patrick Kane
Ryan Kesler
Phil Kessel
Jamie Langenbrunner
Ryan Malone
Ryan Miller
Brooks Orpik
Zach Parise
Joe Pavelski
Jonathan Quick
Brian Rafalski
Bobby Ryan
Paul Stastny
Ryan Suter
Tim Thomas
Ryan Whitney

Looks pretty good to me...
They were projected to finish 6th.

EDIT: Because they were such a young team. Burke was criticized for dumping guys like Modano, Guerin, Tkachuk, among others in favour of a young squad without much international experience.


Last edited by indigobuffalo: 12-21-2011 at 04:01 PM.
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12-21-2011, 04:01 PM
  #315
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I cut out the rest of your crap since it's pure insanity.

You need a history lesson?:
The leafs should have blown everything up after the lockout. This was apparent afterwards, in the '05-'06 season. Fletcher who destroyed the Leafs after turning them around, his tenure before, took over and didn't do enough to start a rebuild. The Leafs' most recent franchise history (including 90s until now) is to refuse a genuine rebuild.

So, Burke started in what, in '08? A rebuild was two or three years late and Burke stated publicly his refusal to also rebuild (even though, it should have been initiated two or three years before).

You overrate all the players you mentioned and Phaneuf is not #1 dman material.

Burke has a cozy relationship with his coach so instead of approaching the problem professionally, he is blinded by his loyalty to his friend. This franchise is a joke but it makes money even when they're always inept.

Yeah, you can remember me when they fail again.
I've realized during my tenure here that there are "fans" like you (well, I guess not anymore) who will always complain about something, as if they're better suited to run this team and smarter than everyone else on these boards.

Hard to overrate the players when I look at the team and see Phaneuf on the first pairing, Lupul on the first line and top-10 in scoring, Colborne ripping it up in the AHL, Gardiner making the team and showing buckets of promise, and Lombardi/Franson being used in depth roles. I'd say my descriptions are pretty accurate! Phaneuf would be a top-pairing defenceman on pretty much every team in the league, save a handful of teams. Lupul would bounce between the first and second lines on most teams. Our prospect depth has gone from #18 (2009) -> #12 (2010) -> #8 (2011) on HF's Organizational Rankings under Burke. Hardly a scientific ranking but our future has significantly improved under Burke.

You were leaving, pucky. Please do. If anything needs a rebuild, it's this fanbase.

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12-21-2011, 04:05 PM
  #316
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coronet66 View Post
I think Carlyle is a clear upgrade not lateral at all. Cup winner and tough to play against. Exactly why he was Burkes coach and they were very successful. Wilson has had a different team every year and they always play the same, soft and poor defence. Last game undiciplined penalties cost them, they should have beaten LA, but the players are allowed to take stupid penalties. That just doesn't happen in Boston or Detroit the top coached teams in the league.
It's tougher to be consistent when the roster is a veritable revolving door. Especially without a mentoring presence.

Boston and Detroit are both replete with veteran players, and experienced guys who know how far they can take things before they get called on "dumb" penalties.

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12-21-2011, 04:09 PM
  #317
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Originally Posted by indigobuffalo View Post
It's tougher to be consistent when the roster is a veritable revolving door. Especially without a mentoring presence.
its kind of funny that someone would say something like Wilson has had a different roster every year in an attempt to discredit him when it does the complete opposite.

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12-21-2011, 04:09 PM
  #318
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How come people are calling for Wilson's head all of a sudden?

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12-21-2011, 04:10 PM
  #319
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Originally Posted by Tak7 View Post
How come people are calling for Wilson's head all of a sudden?
studies have shown that alcohol consumption rises drastically around the holidays.

also, school is on vacation.

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12-21-2011, 04:10 PM
  #320
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Originally Posted by indigobuffalo View Post
They were projected to finish 6th.

EDIT: Because they were such a young team. Burke was criticized for dumping guys like Modano, Guerin, Tkachuk, among others in favour of a young squad without much international experience.
Wilson also did well on the leafs when Reimer (like miller during the olympics) was playing well (.920). A fair question is would Wilson on the Senators perform as well or "better" then the current coach. I have a hard time thinking he can match what maclean has done on the senators especially without a solid goalie to bail out the defensive lapses that occur in the uptempo style of coaching.

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12-21-2011, 04:10 PM
  #321
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Originally Posted by coronet66 View Post
I think Carlyle is a clear upgrade not lateral at all. Cup winner and tough to play against. Exactly why he was Burkes coach and they were very successful. Wilson has had a different team every year and they always play the same, soft and poor defence. Last game undiciplined penalties cost them, they should have beaten LA, but the players are allowed to take stupid penalties. That just doesn't happen in Boston or Detroit the top coached teams in the league.
Just different styles and mannerisms. Neither one is the greatest coach ever. When Wilson was coaching the Sharks and Carlyle was coaching the Ducks I thought they were both of equal worth, just with different teams and different styles.

IMO Carlyle's coaching crushes Wilson's style, but it's like Rock - Paper - Scissors. Wilson is Scissors, Carlyle is Rock... Doesn't make Rock the best option in the game, just cause it beats Scissors.

Although statistically...

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12-21-2011, 04:14 PM
  #322
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The only reason why I believe that Florida might fall is their lack of scoring depth after the 1st line and their scoring D man.
People have been saying this since the beginning of the season.
Funny thing is the leafs have fallen and panthers continue to improve

They have great dman in campbell, have received solid goaltending from theodore and have very good defensive forwards for their simple defensive game they play.

If theodore continues to play well and campbell stays healthly to chew up minutes the they will keep games close and maybe able to keep stealing games like the habs, phoenix, tampa or injured penguins have done in past years.

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12-21-2011, 04:16 PM
  #323
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Originally Posted by Tak7 View Post
How come people are calling for Wilson's head all of a sudden?
Nonis has insulted a good number of fans by supporting Burke's statement that Wilson is the leaf's first star this year. And not that I believe Wilson should be fired but I don't like this kind of lemon car salesman pitch.


Last edited by number72: 12-21-2011 at 04:24 PM.
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12-21-2011, 04:18 PM
  #324
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studies have shown that alcohol consumption rises drastically around the holidays.
So that explains the Leafs' recent performance.

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12-21-2011, 04:18 PM
  #325
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People have been saying this since the beginning of the season.
Funny thing is the leafs have fallen and panthers continue to improve

They have great dman in campbell, have received solid goaltending from theodore and have very good defensive forwards for their simple defensive game they play.

If theodore continues to play well and campbell stays healthly to chew up minutes the they will keep games close and maybe able to keep stealing games like the habs, phoenix, tampa or injured penguins have done in past years.
They're playing over their heads right now. Everyone on the first line is having a career year, this is the best any of those goaltenders have looked in decades and Campbell is 1 point away from matching his point totals from all of last year, while on pace to match his career high. I don't see all of those things continuing to happen, they look like the Thrashers from a year ago to me, but they may be able to hang on to a playoff spot because of their overall game.

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