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Ron Wilson needs to be fired! 4 years of Failure.

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12-24-2011, 08:50 AM
  #401
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Leafs are winning simply because there is more talent on this roster, not Wilson.
So, the last three years had nothing to do with coaching either then? You guys don't get to have it both ways, sorry.

As for sluffing off hard work, I said we OUTWORK the other team, so saying every team works hard doesn't quite jive with my assertion.

Anyways, people have been on this soap box for years, don't let changing realities update your viewpoint or anything!

Fire Wilson!!!

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12-24-2011, 08:51 AM
  #402
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This is ridiculous Edg27, Leafs fans would tolerate RW's personality if would bring this city a Cup, heck even winning 1 playoff rd. That's all fans want. They wouldn't care less if the guy was a dcik if we were winning.
It's not that ridiculous. Look, the team certainly has a number of shortcomings and the style of play is not everybody's cup of tea. There are posters that make some decent arguments of why RW isn't the right guy for the Leafs, and there are posters that make some decent arguments as to why he is a good coach for the Leafs.

That being said, there are a large number of posters that just don't like RW's demeanour and want him gone "because he's a d***", and when asked why they want him gone, the default answer is "um ...look at the PK, it sucks, RW is the sole reason for that etc. etc."

Those are the guys I'm referring to, and if you think that's ridiculous, I'd invite you start at Page 1 of this thread and reread it.

I'd be willing to bet that this team could be first overall and there would still be people calling for RW's head. Oh wait a minute, already happened back in October.

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12-24-2011, 08:52 AM
  #403
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Poor Ronnie...a career of coaching crappy rosters...the guy can't catch a break....
If only this were true, San Jose was a crappy roster also? I don't understand why people can't see Ronnie has had tremendously talented rosters before and failed.

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12-24-2011, 08:53 AM
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If only this were true, San Jose was a crappy roster also? I don't understand why people can't see Ronnie he has had tremendously talented rosters before and failed.
I know, look at all those cups San Jose has won since Ronnie left with the same core? Clearly, it was him.

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12-24-2011, 08:58 AM
  #405
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It's not that ridiculous. Look, the team certainly has a number of shortcomings and the style of play is not everybody's cup of tea. There are posters that make some decent arguments of why RW isn't the right guy for the Leafs, and there are posters that make some decent arguments as to why he is a good coach for the Leafs.

That being said, there are a large number of posters that just don't like RW's demeanour and want him gone "because he's a d***", and when asked why they want him gone, the default answer is "um ...look at the PK, it sucks, RW is the sole reason for that etc. etc."

Those are the guys I'm referring to, and if you think that's ridiculous, I'd invite you start at Page 1 of this thread and reread it.

I'd be willing to bet that this team could be first overall and there would still be people calling for RW's head. Oh wait a minute, already happened back in October.
I can only speak for myself, personality has nothing to do whether I think Wilson is the right coach for the Leafs or not. If I was convinced Wilson could be the difference in winning games, I would be perfectly happy with him. For me it's all about wins and losses. Look Burns was a sarcastic, snarly coach when he was with us, but I knew his coaching made a difference in the win column. He's my favorite coach of all time. If I judged him on personality he would be fired by now, personality has very little to do with liking or disliking a coach, results do.

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12-24-2011, 09:03 AM
  #406
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I know, look at all those cups San Jose has won since Ronnie left with the same core? Clearly, it was him.
Who has won more playoff rounds Todd McLellan in 3 years or Ronnie in 5?

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12-24-2011, 09:04 AM
  #407
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So what exactly is needed for a Wilson firing to be warranted?
The team to be underachieving.

Here's what kills me. There is very little that you could get agreement about on these boards. But the one thing that almost everyone does agree about is that this 2011-12 edition of the Leafs is not a Stanley Cup contender and they will be in tough to get a lower playoff spot.

And here they are, almost half way through the season, exactly where everyone expected them to be, (if not a little better) and people are screaming for the coaches head.

Can't speak for everyone, but in my job, I have objectives set for the year. If I am meeting or exceeding expectations, I certainly don't expect to get fired. That's not what good organizations do.

On December 24th 2011, RW's Leafs are meeting expectations.

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12-24-2011, 09:08 AM
  #408
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Here's what kills me. There is very little that you could get agreement about on these boards. But the one thing that almost everyone does agree about is that this 2011-12 edition of the Leafs is not a Stanley Cup contender and they will be in tough to get a lower playoff spot.

And here they are, almost half way through the season, exactly where everyone expected them to be, (if not a little better) and people are screaming for the coaches head.
It is really hilarious, and speaks more to a pre-determined bias than any fair read of his performance THIS season.

Can't wait for the reaction when Burke extends him soon!! lol.

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12-24-2011, 09:10 AM
  #409
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It's not that ridiculous. Look, the team certainly has a number of shortcomings and the style of play is not everybody's cup of tea. There are posters that make some decent arguments of why RW isn't the right guy for the Leafs, and there are posters that make some decent arguments as to why he is a good coach for the Leafs.

That being said, there are a large number of posters that just don't like RW's demeanour and want him gone "because he's a d***", and when asked why they want him gone, the default answer is "um ...look at the PK, it sucks, RW is the sole reason for that etc. etc."

Those are the guys I'm referring to, and if you think that's ridiculous, I'd invite you start at Page 1 of this thread and reread it.

I'd be willing to bet that this team could be first overall and there would still be people calling for RW's head. Oh wait a minute, already happened back in October.
You don't even know how ridiculous your post sounds...Wilson had his team in first place in October and people were calling for his head...Ever thought that those posters didn't buy into the 1st place standing and don't like Wilson as a career coach and not based on a 10 game stretch where his team sits atop the NHL standings? Even now, what has Ron Wilson done in his career that has earned him consideration for extension right now...because to be fair even if you were a proponent of this ideology, you cannot use his tenure in Toronto as reasoning...because the Leafs have pretty muched sucked while he has coached...this year notwithstanding, where the Leafs have been better for sure but haven't reached the mid-point of the season and they aren't exactly runaway successes just yet. If Burke can improve any roster position..why shouldn't he improve the head coaching position? Don't you think the team/fans deserve the best chance at winning?

By stating that Ron Wilson should be extended, you are saying that he is the best option for the Leafs going forward. Really? No better options than a career .500 coach with little playoff success and no Stanley Cup wins as player or as a coach? So Ron Wilson knows what it takes to be a winner then? So the Leafs must not look any further as their coach is clearly the guy who will bring results?

A very interesting perspective indeed. I wonder if you would settle for this mediocrity at the goaltending level?

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12-24-2011, 09:10 AM
  #410
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It is really hilarious, and speaks more to a pre-determined bias than any fair read of his performance THIS season.

Can't wait for the reaction when Burke extends him soon!! lol.
Are you Wilson's agent? Just kidding, seriously I have to ask, do you think Wilson is the coach that can bring this city a championship, if the answer is yes, please explain to me why?

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12-24-2011, 09:11 AM
  #411
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Who has won more playoff rounds Todd McLellan in 3 years or Ronnie in 5?
Oh, okay now it's playoff rounds? Yep, I'm sure San Jose fans are much happier the last three years. LOL.

San Jose has actually proved that they are a chronic underarchieving team, that the coach WASN'T the issue! You can't coach heart.

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12-24-2011, 09:15 AM
  #412
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Are you Wilson's agent? Just kidding, seriously I have to ask do you think Wilson is the coach that can bring this city a championship, if the answer is yes, please explain to me why?
Honestly, I like the way we play, my only quibble that philosophy doesn't extend to the PK, we are aggressive everywhere else and yet we are still passive on PK, don't get it.

I think coaching is over rated, the only real big difference is whether the guys "buy in", play hard for the coach, show up and successes rewarded. Wilson does a good job motivating guys, players like him (after last year guys like Grabo went to Burke and said "don't fire coach") and play hard for him. Unless I see evidence of quitting on the coach, I'm not buying into the fire Wilson mentality, because only now has he had what I would call decent NHL talent. Look at all the stiffs we've traded, almost all of them are marginal players, our roster was such crap, it really, really was, no DEPTH whatsoever and a bunch of guys two lines higher than they should have been.

I think Wilson has to get this team to the playoffs this year, that's my bar. So far so good, hence so far so no want to fire.

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12-24-2011, 09:15 AM
  #413
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Oh, okay now it's playoff rounds? Yep, I'm sure San Jose fans are much happier the last three years. LOL.

San Jose has actually proved that they are a chronic underarchieving team, that the coach WASN'T the issue! You can't coach heart.
Keep ignoring the fact they were a lot closer to winning the cup under Todd McLellan than Ron Wilson. That's the point, the closer you get the better chance you have of winning. Again look at Boston.

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12-24-2011, 09:15 AM
  #414
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Are you Wilson's agent? Just kidding, seriously I have to ask, do you think Wilson is the coach that can bring this city a championship, if the answer is yes, please explain to me why?
Honest answer: I don't. However, we are not at that point yet. I DO believe that RW is the guy to develop this team and turn them into the players we will need to win. When winning the Stanley Cup becomes a realistic goal for this team, I believe a change will be made. If we win it before then? Good for us!!

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12-24-2011, 09:17 AM
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Keep ignoring the fact they were a lot closer to winning the cup under Todd McLellan than Ron Wilson. That's the point, the closer you get the better chance you have of winning. Again look at Boston.
McLellan also inherited a team much more developed and ready than Wilson did. Do you think the Sharks just magically became contenders?

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12-24-2011, 09:18 AM
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Keep ignoring the fact they were a lot closer to winning the cup under Todd McLellan than Ron Wilson. That's the point, the closer you get the better chance you have of winning. Again look at Boston.
Oh yes Boston, who's coach was ONE loss away from getting canned! Sports is sure fickle isn't it?

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12-24-2011, 09:20 AM
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You don't even know how ridiculous your post sounds...Wilson had his team in first place in October and people were calling for his head...Ever thought that those posters didn't buy into the 1st place standing and don't like Wilson as a career coach and not based on a 10 game stretch where his team sits atop the NHL standings? Even now, what has Ron Wilson done in his career that has earned him consideration for extension right now...because to be fair even if you were a proponent of this ideology, you cannot use his tenure in Toronto as reasoning...because the Leafs have pretty muched sucked while he has coached...this year notwithstanding, where the Leafs have been better for sure but haven't reached the mid-point of the season and they aren't exactly runaway successes just yet. If Burke can improve any roster position..why shouldn't he improve the head coaching position? Don't you think the team/fans deserve the best chance at winning?

By stating that Ron Wilson should be extended, you are saying that he is the best option for the Leafs going forward. Really? No better options than a career .500 coach with little playoff success and no Stanley Cup wins as player or as a coach? So Ron Wilson knows what it takes to be a winner then? So the Leafs must not look any further as their coach is clearly the guy who will bring results?

A very interesting perspective indeed. I wonder if you would settle for this mediocrity at the goaltending level?
The Leafs are ahead of where anybody thought they would be this season. More importantly in a REBUILD, our players are developing into incredible talents. Wilson has done a great job of doing just that, and will continue to do so. Tell me, do you expect all rebuilding teams to be on top of the league in two seasons?

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12-24-2011, 09:22 AM
  #418
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Honestly, I like the way we play, my only quibble that philosophy doesn't extend to the PK, we are aggressive everywhere else and yet we are still passive on PK, don't get it.

I think coaching is over rated, the only real big difference is whether the guys "buy in", play hard for the coach, show up and successes rewarded. Wilson does a good job motivating guys, players like him (after last year guys like Grabo went to Burke and said "don't fire coach") and play hard for him. Unless I see evidence of quitting on the coach, I'm not buying into the fire Wilson mentality, because only now has he had what I would call decent NHL talent. Look at all the stiffs we've traded, almost all of them are marginal players, our roster was such crap, it really, really was, no DEPTH whatsoever and a bunch of guys two lines higher than they should have been.

I think Wilson has to get this team to the playoffs this year, that's my bar. So far so good, hence so far so no want to fire.
You didn't answer my question, do you think Wilson can deliver a cup to this city? You think coaching is overrated? Huh? So just anyone can go behind the bench as long as they have the talent can win? Are you kidding me, coaching is the one variable that can make the difference in winning the cup to not winning it.

Do you think Pittsburg would have won the cup had they not changed coach's in 09? Therefore it is not overrated as you assert.

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12-24-2011, 09:24 AM
  #419
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I can only speak for myself, personality has nothing to do whether I think Wilson is the right coach for the Leafs or not. If I was convinced Wilson could be the difference in winning games, I would be perfectly happy with him. For me it's all about wins and losses. Look Burns was a sarcastic, snarly coach when he was with us, but I knew his coaching made a difference in the win column. He's my favorite coach of all time. If I judged him on personality he would be fired by now, personality has very little to do with liking or disliking a coach, results do.
I LOL at those who claim that personlity is the issue...meanwhile many of these same people can justify overbloated player salaries on players because of their intangibles such as personality...

IE.."He is overpaid but his character and his personality which he brings to the room is immeasurable"

I don't like Wilson's personality but this only adds to the fact that he is and has been a failure most of his career. If he had a great winning track record I really couldn't care less about his personality. I'm not working side by side with the guy...why would I care? I don't really care what he says in press conferences anyway..I don't watch them, much like I don't watch Phaneuf or Kessel or Crosby in interviews. Yawn.

I watch hockey for the on ice entertainment ...not for the musings of some jock who probably struggled to get through highschool. The point is that Wilson has not shown results yet he can be very abrupt and short when being in front of the camera, which doesn't help his cause.

Human nature is to be more empathetic with those who are likeable and personable. Otherwise you better have something else behind you, to garner some empathy and love...In this case it would be an impressive resume of championships and playoff success. Which Wilson doesn't have, which makes his personality that much more of an issue than it should be.

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12-24-2011, 09:27 AM
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You didn't answer my question, do you think Wilson can deliver a cup to this city? You think coaching is overrated? Huh? So just anyone can go behind the bench as long as they have the talent can win? Are you kidding me, coaching is the one variable that can make the difference in winning the cup to not winning it.

Do you think Pittsburg would have won the cup had they not changed coach's in 09? Therefore it is not overrated as you assert.
Again, it doesn't matter if he's the one to win us the Cup. We're not at that stage yet in our development. He IS the guy to develop our young players.

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12-24-2011, 09:28 AM
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and this (and the defensive mistakes) have NOTHING to do with the team being the youngest in the league?
Like toughness, looking at age is most important in the important roles.

top-6 forwards: Kessel, Lupul, Bozak, Connolly, Grabovski, Kulemin. (then MacArthur and Steckel)

top-4 defensemen: Phaneuf, Liles, Gardiner, Gunnarsson. (then Komisarek and Schenn)



Aside from Gardiner, none of those guys can use age as an excuse for poor defensive play.

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12-24-2011, 09:29 AM
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Honest answer: I don't. However, we are not at that point yet. I DO believe that RW is the guy to develop this team and turn them into the players we will need to win. When winning the Stanley Cup becomes a realistic goal for this team, I believe a change will be made. If we win it before then? Good for us!!
There is no urgency with some of our fanbase, Kessel, Lupul, Connolly, Mac and Phaneuf, Liles, are in their prime years of their careers. I fail to see how a 3-4 year extension to a development coach is the right move, these guys don't want to play for a development team, they want to play for contenders.

We are not in a rebuild (developement) we are retooling, Burke himself said he did not want a 5 year plan, if so, Wilson is not the man for the job. Winning now is the focus now in year 3 of Burke's plan, if we make the playoffs this year, it will be a major step towards the end goal. The development mentality of accepting mediocre has past as of this year, by statements by our GM and current coach.

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12-24-2011, 09:30 AM
  #423
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The Leafs are ahead of where anybody thought they would be this season. More importantly in a REBUILD, our players are developing into incredible talents. Wilson has done a great job of doing just that, and will continue to do so. Tell me, do you expect all rebuilding teams to be on top of the league in two seasons?
Im talking about the accomplishments of Ron Wilson. What are you talking about? I said it before, I really hope fans like yourself get your wish. Ron Wilson for 3 or 4 more years. I really do. I've been following a loser for a long time, whats a few more years?

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12-24-2011, 09:30 AM
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I LOL at those who claim that personlity is the issue...meanwhile many of these same people can justify overbloated player salaries on players because of their intangibles such as personality...

IE.."He is overpaid but his character and his personality which he brings to the room is immeasurable"

I don't like Wilson's personality but this only adds to the fact that he is and has been a failure most of his career. If he had a great winning track record I really couldn't care less about his personality. I'm not working side by side with the guy...why would I care? I don't really care what he says in press conferences anyway..I don't watch them, much like I don't watch Phaneuf or Kessel or Crosby in interviews. Yawn.

I watch hockey for the on ice entertainment ...not for the musings of some jock who probably struggled to get through highschool. The point is that Wilson has not shown results yet he can be very abrupt and short when being in front of the camera, which doesn't help his cause.

Human nature is to be more empathetic with those who are likeable and personable. Otherwise you better have something else behind you, to garner some empathy and love...In this case it would be an impressive resume of championships and playoff success. Which Wilson doesn't have, which makes his personality that much more of an issue than it should be.
Wow, I am assuming that you are the most talented guy on the planet if you think that a guy who has won more games than he has lost has been a failure most of his career.

I see Ron Wilson as the 'builder'. He is the kind of coach who goes in, and develops the team. That is the point we are at right now, and he is the man to do the job.

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12-24-2011, 09:35 AM
  #425
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McLellan also inherited a team much more developed and ready than Wilson did. Do you think the Sharks just magically became contenders?
Look at San Jose's roster, they had vets and young players. Wilson has had more excuses here than a cat has lives.

Further to, development is subjective, you can't prove it, it's opinion. Whereas McLellan's results in 3 seasons are concrete evidence and better than Wilson's 5 years there. All Wilson's backers can point to is an opinion that he develops players.

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