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Ron Wilson needs to be fired! 4 years of Failure.

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Old
12-20-2011, 02:06 PM
  #151
smoke meat pete*
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Originally Posted by dredeye View Post
Omitting Komi's experience and even Franson adds a lot more experience to the leafs blue line
Omitting McQuaid and Kampfer on the B's side removes the 2 guys with the least experience

Not really an even indicator if omissions are made to enhance a point.
I also omitted Phaneuf and Chara. But did you consider I included those who have played the most minutes?

McQuiad is 6th, Kampher is 7th in ice time. Kampher has played 83:03 all season long.

But hey, if you really want them, here they are.

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6. Mcquade, 25 years old 113 Nhl Games, 178 AHL games - Franson 24 Years Old, 159 NHL Games, 158 AHL Games
7. Kampfer 23 years old, 45 NHL Games, 28 AHL Games - Komi 29 years old, 488 NHL Games, 94 AHL Games


Last edited by smoke meat pete*: 12-20-2011 at 02:48 PM.
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12-20-2011, 02:08 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by Jazz Jackrabbit View Post
Well the thing is we now have the benefit of hindsight so perhaps it would not have made a difference. The point is RW doesn't seem to consistently go with the goalie that's playing the best, which I think is crucial for a team like the Leafs that is trying to get into the playoffs.
Over the long term, Reimer gives us the best chance to win.

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12-20-2011, 02:24 PM
  #153
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people need to get a clue, majority of hockey analysis predicted Toronto to not make the playoffs, yet after 33 games we sit in a playoff position. like wise I'm sure the Toronto Management teams goal for the team heading into the season was to make the playoffs, guess what were in a playoff spot. so the team is playing up to expectations right now. so why would you fire the coach and bring in another guy who might do worse when the team is living up to the expectations put on them before the season?

news flash: every team goes through slumps. thought that was common sense in sports but guess not.

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12-20-2011, 02:52 PM
  #154
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1. Chara 34 Years Old 958 NHL Games, 71 AHL Games Phaneuf 26 Years Old, 503 NHL Games, 0 AHL Games
2. Boychuk 27 y/0 156 career NHl games, 374 AHL games-Gunnar 25 years old, 143 NHL, 12 AHL
3. Seidenburg 30 years old, 487 NHL games, 131 AHL games - Schenn 22 years old, 263 NHL, 0 AHL
4. Ferrence 32 years old, 670 NHL games, 88 AHL games- Gardiner 21 years old, 31 NHL Games, 10 AHL games
5. Corvo 34 years old, 600 NHL Games, 256 AHL Games- Liles 31 years old, 556 NHL Games, 5 AHL Games
6. Mcquade, 25 years old 113 Nhl Games, 178 AHL games - Franson 24 Years Old, 159 NHL Games, 158 AHL Games
7. Kampfer 23 years old, 45 NHL Games, 28 AHL Games - Komi 29 years old, 488 NHL Games, 94 AHL Games
8. _____________________________________________-Aulie 22 Years Old, 43 NHL Games, 84 AHL Games


Last edited by smoke meat pete*: 12-20-2011 at 03:00 PM.
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12-20-2011, 02:53 PM
  #155
Darcy Tucker
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wait, so the Leafs defense isnt as good as the Stanley cup champions and juggernaut that has won 19 of 22 ???@!

Fire Bourke.

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12-20-2011, 02:57 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post

Omit Phaneuf for Chara. Boston edge. Are they really that much more talented than we are? Really it comes down to coaching, Claude Julien has them playing a system that insulates their D, talent wise their D is not head and shoulders better than ours, there has to be a reason why Boston's D is collectively the best in the NHL.
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Originally Posted by Darcy Tucker View Post
wait, so the Leafs defense isnt as good as the Stanley cup champions and juggernaut that has won 19 of 22 ???@!

Fire Bourke.
Actually, Interactif wanted to know if they were actually just as good, but a different system.

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12-20-2011, 03:01 PM
  #157
Darcy Tucker
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I know, and its a pretty silly argument. They have the best shutdown Dman in the league, and a goalie coming off one of the best seasons ever. They play a team defense game at a level that not many can match, infact nobody did last year. Why is Wilson being blamed for our young inexperienced rearguards not playing to that standard? No one else has.

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12-20-2011, 03:03 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by Darcy Tucker View Post
I know, and its a pretty silly argument. They have the best shutdown Dman in the league, and a goalie coming off one of the best seasons ever. They play a team defense game at a level that not many can match, infact nobody did last year. Why is Wilson being blamed for our young inexperienced rearguards not playing to that standard? No one else has.
Some people want to argue that age and experience are nothing more than an excuse for losing. And yet they've screamed "play the kids and live with the consequences" for years.

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12-20-2011, 03:40 PM
  #159
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How about this:

Leafs 8 defenceman from this season:

Average age: 25
Total NHL Games: 2186
Total AHL Games: 363

Bruins 7 defenceman this year:

Average age: 29.3
Total NHL Games: 3029
Total AHL Games: 1126

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12-20-2011, 03:42 PM
  #160
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I don't understand why Randy Carlyle hasn't been hired as a coach for another NHL team yet.

In my view, Carlyle is way better than Boudreau, but the team felt they needed a new direction. Which did nothing at all and the Ducks are still sinking faster than a bowling ball in a bathtub.

With other teams sill floundering, why wasn't Carlyle hired by any of them??

I was pondering this today when it occurred to me that, as a man of principle, Burke really wouldn't fire Wilson unless there was a serious problem. The Leafs may have a terrible PK and waffle aping PP, but this season is still Ron Wilson's and he is still being given time to right the ship.

A few weeks ago it sounded imminent that Burke was going to announce an extension for Ron Wilson. Then the losing streak came in, and it doesn't sound like the same tune is hanging on the wind.

I suspect Burke may already have Carlyle ready to come in, but we're waiting until either the deadline or the end of the season.

Unless of course Ron Wilson gets everything working and we see serious post-season success.

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12-20-2011, 03:42 PM
  #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dynrehab View Post
How about this:

Leafs 8 defenceman from this season:

Average age: 25
Total NHL Games: 2186
Total AHL Games: 363

Bruins 7 defenceman this year:

Average age: 29.3
Total NHL Games: 3029
Total AHL Games: 1126
That stat makes sense, I think D are generally at their best past the age of 28 to about 36

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12-20-2011, 05:00 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
This is an interesting area of discussion, other than Chara on Boston, who is the exception to the rule for almost any NHL team.

Let's look at our D to theirs man for man.

Omit Phaneuf for Chara. Boston edge. Are they really that much more talented than we are? Really it comes down to coaching, Claude Julien has them playing a system that insulates their D, talent wise their D is not head and shoulders better than ours, there has to be a reason why Boston's D is collectively the best in the NHL.

2. Boychuk - Gunnar
3. Seidenburg - Schenn
4. Ferrence - Gardiner
5. Corvo - Liles
6. Mcquade - Franson
7. Kampfer - Komi
1- Thomas/Rask >>>>>>>> Reimer/Gus (and believe it or not, goalies are a huge part of team defense)
2- Their forwards are more physical/better defensively than ours


I'm not saying Wilson isn't partially to blame, I just don't think your example can put the blame solely on Wilson. I agree that our defense on paper is arguably comparable with the exception of Chara being >> Phaneuf, but goaltending/forwards are also hugely affect defensive play.


Wilson I don't see as the long term solution for Toronto. He IS a good coach. He wouldn't have been in this league with his number of wins if he wasn't, BUT I don't think he's a a great coach or the guy for us to win with. I don't like his Run n Gun style, our team definitely needs to be better defensively. And I think his coaching wins have more to do with longevity and being a pretty good coach rather than to do with him being great or anything like that.

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Old
12-20-2011, 05:26 PM
  #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darcy Tucker View Post
wait, so the Leafs defense isnt as good as the Stanley cup champions and juggernaut that has won 19 of 22 ???@!

Fire Bourke.
I don't think any reasonably intelligent hockey fan would assume I was suggesting that the Leafs defence would have won the cup last year, just that the discrepancy in the talent from D men 2 - 7 is as large as universally believed was the point.

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12-20-2011, 05:29 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
I don't think any reasonably intelligent hockey fan would assume I was suggesting that the Leafs defence would have won the cup last year, just that the discrepancy in the talent from D men 2 - 7 is as large as universally believed was the point.
its large. maybe in 2 years we can make this argument on the main board with a straight face and not get flamed into oblivion, but I like our d corps and still could never conjure any argument based in reality that we are comparable to the Bruins.

Chara, Seidenberg, Ference and Corvo are as solid a two way rearguard as you can ask for. We have no one close to Chara or Seidenberg for that matter.

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12-20-2011, 05:30 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by 416Leafer View Post
1- Thomas/Rask >>>>>>>> Reimer/Gus (and believe it or not, goalies are a huge part of team defense)
2- Their forwards are more physical/better defensively than ours


I'm not saying Wilson isn't partially to blame, I just don't think your example can put the blame solely on Wilson. I agree that our defense on paper is arguably comparable with the exception of Chara being >> Phaneuf, but goaltending/forwards are also hugely affect defensive play.


Wilson I don't see as the long term solution for Toronto. He IS a good coach. He wouldn't have been in this league with his number of wins if he wasn't, BUT I don't think he's a a great coach or the guy for us to win with. I don't like his Run n Gun style, our team definitely needs to be better defensively. And I think his coaching wins have more to do with longevity and being a pretty good coach rather than to do with him being great or anything like that.
Thanks, you give me hope that I am not wasting my time here, this is the point I was making. On paper our D is better than they perform.

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12-20-2011, 05:33 PM
  #166
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Originally Posted by Darcy Tucker View Post
its large. maybe in 2 years we can make this argument on the main board with a straight face and not get flamed into oblivion, but I like our d corps and still could never conjure any argument based in reality that we are comparable to the Bruins.
Main board is silly at times, I have been flamed on one topic before when I suggested to Philly fans that Mike Richards was basically gone by the summer, it was quite logical but Philly fans objected and called me rather unflattery things, it's no biggie, we all have viewpoints. Some are right, some are not.

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12-20-2011, 05:38 PM
  #167
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true but I just really respect the Bruins backend alot .

Seidenberg 32gms 63 hits 69 blocks 8 giveaways. 24+ minutes a night. Has missed 4 games in the last 200 the Bruins have played.

He is pretty much the Leafs ultimate dream dman.

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12-20-2011, 06:28 PM
  #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 416Leafer View Post
1- Thomas/Rask >>>>>>>> Reimer/Gus (and believe it or not, goalies are a huge part of team defense)
2- Their forwards are more physical/better defensively than ours


I'm not saying Wilson isn't partially to blame, I just don't think your example can put the blame solely on Wilson. I agree that our defense on paper is arguably comparable with the exception of Chara being >> Phaneuf, but goaltending/forwards are also hugely affect defensive play.


Wilson I don't see as the long term solution for Toronto. He IS a good coach. He wouldn't have been in this league with his number of wins if he wasn't, BUT I don't think he's a a great coach or the guy for us to win with. I don't like his Run n Gun style, our team definitely needs to be better defensively. And I think his coaching wins have more to do with longevity and being a pretty good coach rather than to do with him being great or anything like that.
Don't care how you want to spin it, Julien is a much better coach than Wilson

edit: and wilson is more than partially to blame

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12-20-2011, 06:35 PM
  #169
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Originally Posted by binop7 View Post
Don't care how you want to spin it, Julien is a much better coach than Wilson

edit: and wilson is more than partially to blame
Why is it "spin"? It's nothing more than one person's opinion.

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12-20-2011, 06:47 PM
  #170
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Originally Posted by dynrehab View Post
Why is it "spin"? It's nothing more than one person's opinion.
Well yeah, but I'm talking mostly in reference to him saying Boston has better players/better goalie which is true, but why can many other teams in the league be competitive with boston with a relatively weak roster and even beat them and the leafs can't touch them. To me that is out coaching.

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12-20-2011, 06:50 PM
  #171
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Originally Posted by binop7 View Post
Well yeah, but I'm talking mostly in reference to him saying Boston has better players/better goalie which is true, but why can many other teams in the league be competitive with boston with a relatively weak roster and even beat them and the leafs can't touch them. To me that is out coaching.
At the same time, why can't the coaches who compete with the Bruins destroy the Leafs in the same way Boston does? Seems like a mental issue as much as a coaching one against Boston to me.

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12-20-2011, 06:55 PM
  #172
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Originally Posted by binop7 View Post
Well yeah, but I'm talking mostly in reference to him saying Boston has better players/better goalie which is true, but why can many other teams in the league be competitive with boston with a relatively weak roster and even beat them and the leafs can't touch them. To me that is out coaching.
Parity my friend. Any team, can beat anybody else on any given night. Except the Leafs with Boston.

But Boston sure is beating almost everyone they face lately.

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12-20-2011, 06:55 PM
  #173
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keep in mind we won the season series against them last season.

yes 0-4 is terrible this year but they just have the worst team for us right now to play against. with no secondary scoring it doesnt matter how hot our top line is, they will get shut down against the Bruins. also our D will eventually crack to their dominant board and slot play. they are the scariest team for the Leafs even if this season it was 2-2. Id rather face any other contender in a playoff series. We just dont have the grit and experience to compete on the same level as them.

but if we get our chemisty together and our D improves and tightens up downlow then we can get close to their level in the near future. We have the talent and I am satisfied that the 2nd youngest team will keep improving. I know its such a wild theory but it could happen.

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12-20-2011, 06:56 PM
  #174
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At the same time, why can't the coaches who compete with the Bruins destroy the Leafs in the same way Boston does? Seems like a mental issue as much as a coaching one against Boston to me.
If it's mental I can't see it getting much better, i don't care that the playoffs are a different animal I hope that they can avoid Boston

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12-20-2011, 06:57 PM
  #175
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Originally Posted by dynrehab View Post
Parity my friend. Any team, can beat anybody else on any given night. Except the Leafs with Boston.

But Boston sure is beating almost everyone they face lately.
Winnipeg beat them and are on a bit of a resurgence they are probably equal talent wise with the leafs

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