I hug people/co-workers that I'm not too fond of ALL of the time (because sometimes, it's politically correct or the business thing to do....). You guys are reading into this way too much, including Dater.
Professional sports is a cut throat business. Guys have proclaimed confidence in players/coaches and cut them a week later. It does happen.
Well, when you think about it, it's a legit question from Dater. I wasn't even paying attention to the hugging part. It's just that Dater posed the question that I hadn't thought of in a while.
If this team makes the playoffs, Sacco gets renewed. Sad day.
didn't want to start a new thread and i thought this would work here.
the avs are the only team in the NHL that doesnt have at least one person over 3 mins of pp time on ice per game.(STL i guess don't count because there only guy has only played 3 games)
there are 142 players infront of the avs leading pp toi/g player
also elliot a rookie is leading our team on pp toi/g while stastny while slumping, is 6th on the team for pp toi/g even though he's second in powerplay points on the team. I'm not sure why we spread our pp toi/g around so much but it seems as though we have to let our best players play more like the rest of the teams seem to do.
The Avs do have the third least amount of PP time in the NHL. I thinkt it does make sense to see more Duchene and Stastny and less Porter. A lack of elite offensive weapons does that. For example, Chara is the only player on Boston to have more than 3:00 a game. While Washington and Vancouver rely much more on their stars. The Sedins and Ovechkin get loads of PP time. Both Washington and Boston have small amounts of PP time this year as well.
If Duchene, Stastny and Hejduk start to produce more and pick up their games we should hope to see them get more time.
Well, when you think about it, it's a legit question from Dater. I wasn't even paying attention to the hugging part. It's just that Dater posed the question that I hadn't thought of in a while.
If this team makes the playoffs, Sacco gets renewed. Sad day.
I don't think that's necessarily true. Especially if PL has been waiting for Roy all along anyway. Unless they make it to the Western finals, I don't think Sacco's job is safe. The team just hasn't played up to the way they are capable of.
To all the people that'll say "well we're winning and no need to fire him" **** off. This guy needs to be gone playoffs or not.
I think he closes out the season regardless of how we're playing. We'll probably finish around 10th in the West and 19th overall or something like that.
I agree he's not the guy going forward. Simply hasn't evolved as a coach, unable and unwilling to make adjustments where needed and alienates more players than he motivates.
Mind you, still not fond of management/ownership, but more and more Sacco looks and acts like an interim coach who's stuck around way too long.
So how exactly does Sacco justify putting Porter in the lineup over DVDG, when he's got the same amount of points as DVDG playing in more than TWICE the amount of games AND with generally better linemates and 'some' PP time??!!?
I guess it's just one of those mysteries.
It's a shame we don't really see this team for what it really CAN be. That 3rd period last game, was the FIRST TIME all season that we've seen Landeskog with Stastny. We're 47 games in...and this is the first time he's tried it??!?!
I think he closes out the season regardless of how we're playing. We'll probably finish around 10th in the West and 19th overall or something like that.
He won't be extended.
Yea I don't see any way they fire him during the season now. It would take a very strange circumstance for them to not fire him during the worst part of his tenure a few weeks ago, and then replace him later on.
If Roy isn't brought in during the offseason, I think a lot of this will have to do with money and not wanting to pay two coaches at the same time, as silly as that sounds. The Avs have really clamped down on every little expense, just like the goalie coach thing. That's not to say they won't start spending money when the team is competitive again, I think they will, but until then I think they are in ultra conservative mode for big Stan. And ownership doesn't like the idea of paying a coach to sit on his butt somewhere. It doesn't make sense fiscally.
See my biggest issue with all of this is I am the person that argues that the Avs are NOT cheap. That they will spend (money, not spend as in trade assets like Shatty, Stew, 1st - tho we've gotten good returns) once the new CBA comes. The coaching however is not part of the cap. This means that they are either cheap and working with a internal budget that spans farther than just players or they are waiting for Roy which is a bad assessment of management putting all their eggs, and potentially loosing this season, in one basket or they are really that stupid when it comes to internal hiring.
All the possibilities aren't making me happy as a fan.
Ha, I just saw some snipet on TV talking about a new coach being hired, and a shot of Kroenke sitting down at a press conference, but it ended up being for the Rams. What a tease.
I do. If that happens, Sacco would have made the playoffs two out of three seasons, with one of the 4 lowest payrolls in the NHL in each of them. Looking at nothing but numbers/stats, that's really not bad.
I'm not optimistic here. The Avs hired Sacco when there were obviously more qualified candidates out there. He wasn't at the AHL level for very long, and wasn't killing it there.
And with all of the Sacco criticism, I'd like to ask a question: Why do I not see anyone criticizing the hiring of Deadmarsh and/or his performance? (Though I've not been in this forum very much lately, so those criticisms may exist and I missed them).
I mean, the man had *zero* coaching experience, they brought him in to coach an offense that has two of the organization's cornerstones in it (if not four of them), and what we are watching this season is the most inept, boring, predictable offensive zone play we have ever seen out of an Avalanche team. And that includes last season, and the putrid final Granato season. Seriously, this is the 2004 Minnesota Wild, minus Gaborik. Does Deadmarsh have no responsibility for this?
I do. If that happens, Sacco would have made the playoffs two out of three seasons, with one of the 4 lowest payrolls in the NHL in each of them. Looking at nothing but numbers/stats, that's really not bad.
I'm not optimistic here. The Avs hired Sacco when there were obviously more qualified candidates out there. He wasn't at the AHL level for very long, and wasn't killing it there.
And with all of the Sacco criticism, I'd like to ask a question: Why do I not see anyone criticizing the hiring of Deadmarsh and/or his performance? (Though I've not been in this forum very much lately, so those criticisms may exist and I missed them).
I mean, the man had *zero* coaching experience, they brought him in to coach an offense that has two of the organization's cornerstones in it (if not four of them), and what we are watching this season is the most inept, boring, predictable offensive zone play we have ever seen out of an Avalanche team. And that includes last season, and the putrid final Granato season. Seriously, this is the 2004 Minnesota Wild, minus Gaborik. Does Deadmarsh have no responsibility for this?
-AB
Deader and Sly have not escaped criticism, though understandably the majority of the hate has focused squarely on Sacco.
As for the boring, predictable play, how much of that is on Deader/Sacco's shoulders and how much of it is on Sherman/KSE? It's a boring gameplan, yes, but this team simply doesn't have the weapons to put together a dynamic offensive attack, otherwise they wouldn't be so dependent on a 20-year-old on the blueline. Something tells me that even if we still had Kono as an assistant, the team would still be having problems scoring.
Honestly, at this point, I don't know who to blame...and I suppose that's the problem with this organization. So many damned cooks in the kitchen and such a culture of secrecy we simply don't know who's doing what.
As for the boring, predictable play, how much of that is on Deader/Sacco's shoulders and how much of it is on Sherman/KSE? It's a boring gameplan, yes, but this team simply doesn't have the weapons to put together a dynamic offensive attack, otherwise they wouldn't be so dependent on a 20-year-old on the blueline. Something tells me that even if we still had Kono as an assistant, the team would still be having problems scoring.
I agree with that, but if you look at the most offensively talented Avs' forwards: Stastny, Hejduk, Duchene, Jones - *all* of them are scoring significantly below the same time last year. Jones is somewhat closer than the others, but their collective scoring has gone into the tank. Why? The only Top 6 forward who is kicking last year's scoring pace is O'R.
The forwards have almost zero chemistry between them, and if the Avs complete more than a few offensive zone passes per period, it's a real treat. I'm hard pressed to ever remember a team that dumps the puck into the corner more than this team does, even from within the offensive zone itself.
As for forward scoring, they did it in the past. They did it just last year, with a last place team. With a lot of the same forwards on the roster. What is going on now?
What's wrong right now?
Two things IMO.
1. Not playing players where their skills should have them.
2. Not putting players in situations where they can flourish.
No one here would disagree that Winnik is not a 1st or 2nd line player. No one would disagree that Paul Stastny needs better and more consistent wingers to be a threat. Jones, Winnik, Yip, and Porter cannot keep up with him on a mental hockey playing level. Duchene was the only one that could do that. But everytime Winnik touched the puck, it would all of a sudden be shot over the net and sent down the other way, or just turned over.
I think we've all seen that Hejduk does not work with Landeskog and O'Reilly. It worked for 4 or 5 games, then it was pretty obvious that Hejduk wasn't playing the same style of game as Lando/ROR.
I thought seeing Mueller on a line with Stastny on his first game back was a sign of better things to come, then that was promptly broken up in favour of Winnik-Galiardi-Mueller... WTF. When was the last time Galiardi played C in the NHL?
I agree with that, but if you look at the most offensively talented Avs' forwards: Stastny, Hejduk, Duchene, Jones - *all* of them are scoring significantly below the same time last year. Jones is somewhat closer than the others, but their collective scoring has gone into the tank. Why? The only Top 6 forward who is kicking last year's scoring pace is O'R.
The forwards have almost zero chemistry between them, and if the Avs complete more than a few offensive zone passes per period, it's a real treat. I'm hard pressed to ever remember a team that dumps the puck into the corner more than this team does, even from within the offensive zone itself.
As for forward scoring, they did it in the past. They did it just last year, with a last place team. With a lot of the same forwards on the roster. What is going on now?
-AB
Ah, but you need to also take into account the Avs got a LOT of their offense from the defense jumping into the play. They chose to completely overhaul their speedy-but-small blueline corps into a bigger, stronger, and slower unit that didn't have any true puckmovers (EJ and Quincey can move the puck, but they're not offensive defensemen).
Trading away Liles left this team without an offensive catalyst. It's the difference between a guy moving the puck up the ice and the team continually having to chip it into the offensive zone. That's why I said the Avs are so dependent on a 20-year-old to do the things that guys like Liles did last season. They didn't have a dynamic puckmover anywhere on the roster and that's why the rookie had such an immediate impact.
So, again, it's more than just a coaching issue, even though a lot of the forwards are the same (except we never got a replacement for Fleischmann/Stewart and lo and behold, Duchene struggles) but a defense that can't jump into the play save for Elliott and the occasional bout of Hejda idiocy has left a thin forward corps exposed.
Deader and Sly have not escaped criticism, though understandably the majority of the hate has focused squarely on Sacco.
As for the boring, predictable play, how much of that is on Deader/Sacco's shoulders and how much of it is on Sherman/KSE? It's a boring gameplan, yes, but this team simply doesn't have the weapons to put together a dynamic offensive attack, otherwise they wouldn't be so dependent on a 20-year-old on the blueline. Something tells me that even if we still had Kono as an assistant, the team would still be having problems scoring.
Honestly, at this point, I don't know who to blame...and I suppose that's the problem with this organization. So many damned cooks in the kitchen and such a culture of secrecy we simply don't know who's doing what.
I disagree with that. You look at this team's "core" forwards--Stastny, Hejduk, Jones, Duchene, O'Reilly, Galiardi (I guess)--they've all been together for a few years. Two years ago this team's offense was 6th in the league. At this time last year it was top 3. Since then the offense has been bottom 5, and the only real difference is Fleischmann went on IR and Stewart came off IR (and then was later traded). It's been a year, almost to the day, since this team's offense just completely fell apart. Chemistry vanished, creativity disappeared, and the team's shooting percentage plummeted (third worst in the league this year), nearly over night. Almost every forward, scratch that, almost every *player* on this team has underachieved this year. Either Fleishmann was our entire offense, or something happened that changed the team.
Going forward this team does need to add a scoring winger or two, but I think there are deeper issues.
I disagree with that. You look at this team's "core" forwards--Stastny, Hejduk, Jones, Duchene, O'Reilly, Galiardi (I guess)--they've all been together for a few years. Two years ago this team's offense was 6th in the league. At this time last year it was top 3. Since then the offense has been bottom 5, and the only real difference is Fleischmann went on IR and Stewart came off IR (and then was later traded). It's been a year, almost to the day, since this team's offense just completely fell apart. Chemistry vanished, creativity disappeared, and the team's shooting percentage plummeted (third worst in the league this year), nearly over night. Almost every forward, scratch that, almost every *player* on this team has underachieved this year. Either Fleishmann was our entire offense, or something happened that changed the team.
Going forward this team does need to add a scoring winger or two, but I think there are deeper issues.
The argument with shooting percentage was that yeah, it's low now but when the team was winning it was unsustainably high. I think Galiardi's alone at that point was just plain ridiculous. It was going to come down eventually...Flash's injury may have exacerbated that fall just a bit though.
I won't deny though that this team as a whole just kinda stopped having fun after that. You could see they just didn't have the same zip as before. But now that the defense has been overhauled, there's simply no way they can go back to that run-and-gun type of offense we enjoyed the last one-and-a-half seasons. I guess I'm okay with them trying to create a more balanced team, though I still say they overcompensated by a fair bit on the back end with so many big, slow defenders, and they didn't really have to.
Again, I believe there should be a coaching change, but I don't care what anyone says, this team is not built to win.
Great win tonight. You could tell the players really wanted this win badly.
Can someone shed some light on why Mueller looked great paired up with Stastny and Gali against Dallas but then that line gets torn apart against Phoenix so that he can put Kevin "I swear to God, I'm a real NHLer" Porter with Stastny and Jones and put Galiardi at center with Mueller and Winnik ??? They played really well against Dallas and got lots of chances and he goes and makes a weird-bonehead decision like that? I don't get it.
Oh and by the way, in the 1st or perhaps the 2nd period of tonights game, David Van Der Gulik made a really nice pass to McLeod who was almost able to get his stick on and get a great chance against Theodore. THAT play and the fact that DVDG CAN make it and the fact that I've never seen Porter make anything even close to that is the reason why Porter should not see the ice again this season. I would have waived him before Yip.
Great win tonight. You could tell the players really wanted this win badly.
Can someone shed some light on why Mueller looked great paired up with Stastny and Gali against Dallas but then that line gets torn apart against Phoenix so that he can put Kevin "I swear to God, I'm a real NHLer" Porter with Stastny and Jones and put Galiardi at center with Mueller and Winnik ??? They played really well against Dallas and got lots of chances and he goes and makes a weird-bonehead decision like that? I don't get it.
Oh and by the way, in the 1st or perhaps the 2nd period of tonights game, David Van Der Gulik made a really nice pass to McLeod who was almost able to get his stick on and get a great chance against Theodore. THAT play and the fact that DVDG CAN make it and the fact that I've never seen Porter make anything even close to that is the reason why Porter should not see the ice again this season. I would have waived him before Yip.
I would like to believe it was due to conditioning. They probably realized he needed a game or two to get his legs back.
The argument with shooting percentage was that yeah, it's low now but when the team was winning it was unsustainably high. I think Galiardi's alone at that point was just plain ridiculous. It was going to come down eventually...Flash's injury may have exacerbated that fall just a bit though.
I won't deny though that this team as a whole just kinda stopped having fun after that. You could see they just didn't have the same zip as before. But now that the defense has been overhauled, there's simply no way they can go back to that run-and-gun type of offense we enjoyed the last one-and-a-half seasons. I guess I'm okay with them trying to create a more balanced team, though I still say they overcompensated by a fair bit on the back end with so many big, slow defenders, and they didn't really have to.
Again, I believe there should be a coaching change, but I don't care what anyone says, this team is not built to win.
Who is saying otherwise? Are there ANY Avs fans saying we are a LOCK for the playoffs? Or that we are going to be contenders THIS season. I haven't heard anything like that at all.
I'm not exactly sure what you meant by "this team is not built to win"? Are you talking about THIS season? I have to disagree. They most certainly ARE built to win but it's going to take time. Do you have any idea how long Canucks fans WAITED for the Sedins to actually 'arrive' so-to-speak??? They certainly weren't doing the things that O'Reilly and Duchene have been doing as 20 year olds. The core is there and most if not all of them are under 23. Just the fact that we are hovering around a playoff spot is remarkable when you really think about it.
I agree with Detrude that there are some deeper issues with this team. I truly believe that the 'Sherman-Sacco' regime are placeholders for Sakic and Roy to take over as GM and Head Coach. (Don't kid yourselves, Patrick Roy is NOT going to take over that giant mess in Montreal.) This doesn't automatically mean that Sherman and Sacco will be fired. They may just be offered other positions within the organizations...especially, if this is something that they knew going into their current deals.
